December 13, 2014 at 9:30 pm #31896
And yes LEOs do look at loaded chamber, but not the way you’d expect.
You aren’t carrying loaded chamber, you’re not experienced enough to be carrying or you’re afraid of your own gun.
You’re not carrying chamber loaded, you’re not feeling threatened enough to carry a fully loaded gun? So why are you carrying?
If you have gone through the process to carry a CCW, be serious about it.
The people the cops look down upon carrying chamber loaded or even at all are the criminals, drunks and stupid people. Dont fit one of those categories and its nothing really.
For those who subscribe to Israeli carry, take a serious look at both why they do it and what it really takes to get your gun into action in an emergency.
The Izzys do so from military training.
Military training with handguns normally leaves much to be desired, here also. It was developed back when the Izzys had a hodge podge of arms dating back to the turn of the century, a mixed bag of styles, safeties and methods of operation. It was easier to train everyone to just rack the slide to make the guns operational than teach every different method.
Since most Izzy training is through the military or the instructors come out of the military, this is what you get.
Now as most of us go through life with something in our hands, carrying something, holding something, hanging onto something, the need for two hands to operate a concealed weapon is ludicrous.
This is something that normally there is no time to make ready, to load, to fidle with when we are stressed.
This is a fine motor skill of sorts, and under stress people commomly screw up, jamming the gun, depressing safeties, etc.
With the one handed part, how many of us are going to be uaing our off hand to get our wife and kids out of the way instead of fiddling with the slide? I have a 10 year old who will have to be carried or at least prodded to move in the right direction. My hands will be full, one with a gun, the other getting door handles, operating a flashlight, etc.
Its a handgun, not a handsgun. Practice and train accordingly.
In almost every class I put on someone brings up this style of carry.
We discuss it and then go through it when we get to the life fire portion of the class. Moving targets from 75 feet to 0.
Its amazing how many people mess up, miss and just can’t make telling hits suddenly. And this is after a dry run of the targets so they see what is going to happen.
And that’s using two hands, now try the same using only one. That little LC9 doesn’t shag on a pants leg or belt too easily.
Low profile sights are cute, but have some real failings when it comes to fighting.
There isn’t a modern gun out there that isn’t defective, that isnt completely safe fully loaded.December 13, 2014 at 9:59 pm #31897
Question ? if there is not a round in the chamber……………..how can it go off ? even by dropping it . Rounds dont go off by themselves . I hear what your saying to a point , but at the same time , I read about where a person ( victim ) was killed or assaulted , and a lot of the time , it was the victims fault for being where they were in the first place . And for that , I have no sympathy . Its like a young guy complaining about going into a biker bar , then getting beat up by two drunk bikers , even tho he was minding his own business . Pretty simple , dont go to those places , and you wont have that worry next time . Home defense is a different matter . I live in a state that makes CC permit irrelevant because its the right of every person to carry a firearm anyway . Constitutional carry . They offer it , but legally its not needed , only if you feel like donating your money to the state . It’s a judgment call , nothing more nothing less , I dont go into bad areas , I have no need or desire to . If I feel that there might be trouble , I rack a round , but not before . I’m not afraid of my gun , I’m a redneck , I grew up with them . Self responsibility , a judgement call . And like my cowboy ancestors , I like to drink once in awhile and have a temper . Not racking a round is a safety for both me and other people .Just sayinDecember 13, 2014 at 11:00 pm #31899
There is the problem, it can’t go off, even if needed. And if needed, it’s normally needed right now.
We have Constitutional Carry here also, but go 3 miles west of town, and you need one (Utah).
Thank you reciprocity.
Guns don’t go off by themselves loaded or not. The video of the Taurus misfiring still required the operator to shake the gun.
With modern (non defective) designs the trigger must be pulled for the gun to go off.
Even the 1911 with the much maligned Series 80 safety can’t go of without the trigger being pulled.
And yes, I have students who are afraid of a loaded gun, that’s one reason why they take the class.
I put on a ‘safety’ class a while back for a group of teachers/admin types who don’t shoot, don’t want to, but need to know which end is the dangerous one and how to “defang” the beast if the occasion requires it. I.E., a loaded gun turned in at school or found in an obvious place outdoors.
I have a mother/daughter scheduled for a Feb class, the daughter literally just had an AD while out shooting, thankfully missing mom and only blackening her finger. Let’s just say she’s a lot more apprehensive about guns now.
I don’t blame the victim, I’ve seen too many instances of just plain bad timing.
We had a gent here in nowhere who decided to get himself killed.
He went into a gunshop and tried to get them to kill him, when that didn’t happen, he fired a shot back into the store with a rifle. He previously had fired shots into a couple of houses.
Anyone in that store at the time would have been justified and legal to punch his ticket.
I missed being part of the incident by less than 5 minutes.
A grocery store I used to frequent got hit one night, not half an hour after I had shopped there.
Wasn’t in the ‘hood’ or a bad area, just happened to be open at 1am.
Several home invasions I helped out investigations with, the homeowner didn’t have time to do anything but draw and fire as the skel came through the door, sometimes over them.
As to defensive long guns, chamber empty is fine.
You have time to retrieve a long gun, you have time to charge it.
But the defensive handgun is carried exactly for that purpose, defense.
Most defensive situations are at bad breath range, that’s why we carry handguns, they can be used at that range effectively, and immediately.
In too many situations the shooter could be injured or killed before they could deploy a condition three firearm, if they remembered to chamber a round in the panic. Time is a luxury in most defensive situations.
It takes an average of 1.5 seconds to perform the OODA loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act), adding time to that is putting yourself that much closer to danger or injury.
I’ve never subscribed to blaming the victim, too much like blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt.
Or the statement by the 40 year old suspect in one of my last sex assault cases, “she had it coming, she was coming onto me.” She was 10.December 14, 2014 at 3:23 pm #31936
Have you had a look at the Glock range? For what you are needing, I would suggest the G26 or at a push the G42, although the latter is in .380ACP and capacity is limited.
I personally use a full size Glock 17 Gen 3 as my EDC weapon (in South Africa we have to have the weapon covered/concealed and I manage it without any hassle), as this is the pistol I have the most trigger time with. I am not a fan of lasers or other funny things on a weapon that will primarily be used for SD and would rather suggest getting some good quality aftermarket sights and if for home use a weapon mounted light.
Also not knowing how bad things are by you, but here in SA you never hear of an armed robbery, home invasion or other contact crime where there was only one suspect. The majority of the time it is at least three or more criminals and they tend to be very well armed and willing to shoot, so for this reason I always advise people to carry as many spare magazines as they possibly can.
Hope this helps your decision a bit.December 14, 2014 at 4:36 pm #31952
Good point , and spare magazines for the ” pocket pistols ” are easy to carry and hide . We should have several spare magazines for every firearm we have . Everybody has their own idea on how many is enough . My idea is for every rifle ( AK, AR , etc) a minimum of 6 , maximum of 10 , and a minimum of 2000 rounds of ammunition for each , no maximum for ammo . For pistols , I feel a minimum of 4 , maximum of 6 , with minimum of 500 rounds for each pistol , as for me a pistol is not my primary weapon . For my pocket pistol , I stop at 4 , because its the gun of last resort . I dont see any real value in having more than 10 magazines for each rifle , and in reality , I usually stop at 8 , the rest being boxed or loose ammunition . Again , everybody has a different idea . My next gun will be a FAL , and plan to follow the same pattern with it .December 14, 2014 at 6:14 pm #31964
I have read a few times that a handgun is only a tool to give you the opportunity to get your rifle. While this isn’t entirely true now it would be post shtf.December 14, 2014 at 10:22 pm #31976
In the event of a social breakdown, all bets are off. However, during relatively ‘normal’ times,in the USA, most armed encounters by civilians end without a shot fired. Most perps simply don’t like the idea of being shot. They are people of low moral character, bullies, and not that brave when facing someone who can kill them.
In the encounters where shots are fired, it’s typically 7m or less and the average number of rounds fired is two. Multiple perpetrators occur in about 1 in every 3 such encounters, and typically when one perp is shot, the others almost always flee the scene, seldom trying to rescue their buddy if he’s down and immobile.
It’s been my observation that in the USA, many perps who will pull a weapon on a civilian and attack them will think twice about doing that to a cop. A perp who will fire at a cop is an extra level of desperate, crazy, or suicidal. A civilian, typically the perp doesn’t know whether they are armed or not. A cop they know he or she is armed, and one yell into the radio away from backup.
Few perps wear body armor and when you get right down to it, any handgun is way better than no handgun. Even a .22 rimfire when used in defensive shootings, has shown itself to have a 34% fatality rate per shot.
Whatever weapon the person carries, they have to shoot it well. Shot placement matters a lot more than caliber. Three rapid shots in the chest with a .22LR is a lot more effective than a miss with a .44mag. Think about the difference between facing Woody Allen with a .44mag vs facing Clint Eastwood with a .22LR Beretta Bobcat.
Really, though, it boils down to a personal choice. This is a metal and plastic object that a person wears all of the time. They have to like it and be comfortable with it or it will start getting left at home or in the car too much. That is bad because it has to be with you to be effective. In all truth, choosing a CCW handgun is a lot like choosing your preferred style of underwear. It’s a choice that in the end only the wearer can make if they want the best fit and what they like the most.December 15, 2014 at 3:36 am #32026
Well, got a SCCY for EDC, but as the situation evolves, I will go to that as a b.u.g. prolly in a back pocket or ankle holster, something of the sort. Wanting to carry something bigger (caliber and overall size) and I’d like some suggestions as to shoulder rigs from you experienced folks…
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sum
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.December 15, 2014 at 5:03 am #32035
Shoulder rigs are inherently more dangerous than a belt carry because you sweep your weak arm with the muzzle. The gun is not as easy to get on target rapidly either coming from the side.December 15, 2014 at 3:20 pm #32089
WOW some amazing replies and helpful info, more than i thought would show up. Let me read thru everything and I expect I’ll have more specific question. Thnaks.December 19, 2014 at 2:35 pm #32444
Please update us after you buy your gun. It would be interesting to see what you used in your decision making process.December 29, 2014 at 11:05 am #33087
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumDecember 29, 2014 at 1:48 pm #33091
Leather shoulder holsters are nice. You don’t have the feeling of being bulked up on the hips.December 29, 2014 at 3:13 pm #33096
Shoulder rigs are a good choice for someone that spends a lot of time sitting in a car and it is a comfortable way to carry the weight of a large gun, or hide a gun. But clearing the weapon is more hazardous then belt carry.December 29, 2014 at 9:01 pm #33129
The shoulder rig can be as safe as any other holster, it all depends on your drawstroke.
Sweeping the muzzle around horizontally in an arc? Bad idea.
Not only do you cover yourself with the muzzle but anyone within that 180 degree arc.
Plus the difficulty of stopping on target.
Instead, drop the muzzle nearly straight down as soon as it clears leather, continue the arc forward and up, you don’t cover anyone or yourself and its faster.
Will see if I can find a video on this.
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