Viewing 15 posts - 181 through 195 (of 249 total)
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  • #18697
    Mr. Red
    Mr. Red
    Survivalist
    member7

    Oh thank god, now I’ll know how to survive in an urban setting because I know that communism is bad!

    Guys if you want to talk about different political ideology can we have a different thread or area of the forum to discuss that, instead of getting extremely off topic?

    Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.

    #18709
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Mr Red, I am not the one who started all about how beautiful communism is in this thread so you need to point your finger at the one that started this.

    I do not care what thread this is if anyone talks about communism in any tread you will get the facts from me since because of this beautiful communism I lost my childhood, I lost my grandparents which I never got to see, I think God for America I didn’t lose my life. So yes if anyone wants to talk about how beautiful Communism is open a new tread but you better be ready for what I have to say to them.

    #18710
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Trying to get back on topic here and acknowledging that I haven’t gone back to the beginning of this thread to review all that has been discussed in the past, so my apologies if this has already been covered. How much of a difference do folks here think it makes as to how large the urban setting is (NYC vs a more moderate sized city like say Charlotte, NC) or where it is (Las Vegas in the desert vs an Eastern City with ample water resources), or some other variable? Also, do you see much difference between being in the city proper vs in the suburbs?

    #18711
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    removed, PM me if you have any questions

    Or email me

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

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    #18738
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>MountainBiker wrote:</div>Trying to get back on topic here and acknowledging that I haven’t gone back to the beginning of this thread to review all that has been discussed in the past, so my apologies if this has already been covered. How much of a difference do folks here think it makes as to how large the urban setting is (NYC vs a more moderate sized city like say Charlotte, NC) or where it is (Las Vegas in the desert vs an Eastern City with ample water resources), or some other variable? Also, do you see much difference between being in the city proper vs in the suburbs?

    Personally, I think that a city such as NY is more of a challenge than other cities.

    Reasons:
    Water and sanitation.
    During the NY blackout some decades ago, while the power was off, people couldn’t get water up to their apartments.
    Some of the older buildings had cisterns on the roof, but most didn’t/don’t.
    Then there’s the refuse created by millions of people, bodily and otherwise.
    The trash guys threaten to go on strike and suddenly people pay attention.

    Compare that to a place where you can still garden and burn your trash if need be in an emergency.

    Secondly:

    Having lived in places with 80,000 residents, 500, 000+ residents, 2000 residents, 6000 residents and now 12, 000, I find the best balance is somewhere above 5000 and below 25, 000.

    Above 5000 there’s enough diversity, one can still be familiar and yet anonymous. Below that, there’s no privacy, no hiding.
    Above 5000, there’s jobs and services you can’t get in smaller places. But what does that mean post-SHTF?

    It means there’s more goods to scrounge, more to trade, more variety. There’s enough people to work together, yet you’re not stepping on each other.

    Above 25, 000, there’s just too many people. And while we are now talking about light industrial areas and jobs, we are now also talking about real crime and criminals. And post-SHTF, you want everyone on your side not trying to steal what you have.

    And around 10, 000 you have fair to decent hospitals, I know we’ve gone back and forth on them, but I’d rather have a surgeon removing a swolen or burst appendix than one of my hunting partners and a half sharp hunting knife. It doesn’t hurt that I have an MD and an anestheologist within two blocks and they’re both customers.

    Thirdly:

    Location.
    I think tjis will play into what happens more than most other factors.
    Why?
    Simple. The city dwellers in general aren’t the same people as inhabit the west and midwest.
    Sorry for those city types but the western and midwestern communities have long taken care of themselves.
    Compare Hurricanes Sandy and Katrina to the Iowa and Missouri floods.
    FEMA shows up for the coasts, not a peep when the Mississippi floods.
    As part of location, there’s not much that will grow on concrete.
    Even here, using a greenhouse I can grow stuff despite the poor soil.
    And here we have yards.

    Urban or city has its advantages and disadvantages. Depending on what happenes, this will be the biggest factor.

    Economic, EMP, terrorist, each has its own threats for every location. Choose where you want to live and go from there.

    #18747
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Whirlibird, I live in a very small town of 2,000 people but we’re near a much larger town that is maybe 20,000 where we have to go for shopping and most services. My interest in posing the initial question was to see how others differentiate cities. In addition to size and location I think one of the variables with cities is how established are the people that live there. In older cities with relatively static populations you are going to find many neighborhoods with extended families and people who have known each other for generations. That’s a good thing for mutual assistance in a SHTF scenario. In newer rapidly growing cities in many neighborhoods nobody is from there and they don’t have extended families and long established networks of friends. I included Charlotte, NC as part of my example because my daughter & her family live in the outer suburbs. You are hard pressed to find anything in her area more than 10 – 20 years old and almost everyone is from somewhere else. Turnover is high as people move on for new jobs someplace else. Come TEOTWAWKI the folks there will have to learn how to work with each other. That’s not an advantage. Another location based variable is guns. In the cities of the Northeastern US and perhaps the West Coast too few people are armed. The criminal elements are. I don’t know about the cities down South or in the Midwest but I suspect having guns is much more common there. You can’t fight the gangs & criminal elements post-SHTF if you aren’t armed, and so Northeastern cities are at a disadvantage on that point.

    Though we don’t have much in the way of shopping or services, small town/rural New England has a somewhat unique advantage in that they are largely run by volunteers and committees. Our Town Meeting form of govt. which goes back to the 1600’s is arguably the purest form of democracy on the planet. Budgets, Bylaws, Zoning, and such all require voter approval at Town Meeting. I mean each line item of the budget, each capital acquisition,and such. Town Selectboards can only do what has been approved at Town Meeting so you can’t have govt. operating independent of the citizens. Selectboard members are essentially volunteers themselves in that they typically get paid a stipend of about $100 per month for all of their work. With the possible exception of School Board members and Listers (Appraisers) who might also get maybe $100 a month, other Town officials typically don’t get paid anything. Small Towns thus will have a couple employees in the Town Hall and a few in the Highway Dept to take care of the roads is all, plus of course school employees. Committees are formed as needed to handle issues facing the Town. Come TEOTWAWKI, small Town New England will be able to draw upon hundreds of years experience of working cooperatively. I will admit that committees and Town Meeting are not always the fastest way to get things done but it truly is govt by the people and for the people which in combination with the reasonably stable populations of small towns will aid handling whatever SHTF issues come along. We saw this big time a couple years back when Hurricane Irene (downgraded to a Tropical Storm by time it hit VT) caused devastating floods not seen in a hundred years, wiping out many bridges and roads and leaving some towns completely isolated. In one town people quickly built a half mile path through the woods so kids had a way of getting to school buses, plus organized volunteers to make sure the young kids got through the woods safely. Elsewhere people with ATV’s organized to get to where prescriptions could be filled for the elderly and shut-ins. Improvised pedestrian bridges went up quickly so people could get to work on the other side of small rivers. People with heavy equipment went to work fixing roads and such.

    #18753
    Profile photo of oldfatguy
    oldfatguy
    Survivalist
    member2

    I don’t mean to suggest the entire gun-owning population will stand up to the threat–many will rightfully fear for their families, and be justifiably afraid of the superior firepower, but not all. There will–I strongly suspect–be millions of combat veterans, accomplished hunters and hard core recreational shooters that will engage, if not directly, in a hit and run type of attack as the Viet Cong, Arab Terrorists and even American Indians in the early days of America. As far as the ability of TPTB to “see” underground such a tiny cache is in serious doubt–they couldn’t find a jumbo jet that was beeping for a month before they finally gave up searching–and they knew the general area in which it would be found, as it could only go so far with the fuel on board. I’m reminded of the stories of the camera that could photograph “Russian license plates” we kept hearing about in the 1980’s. So where is that camera now? Why isn’t it still in use? We know that it isn’t because of the poor resolution of so many satellite photos. The camera and lens don’t exist. It was another govt lie to fool the Russians. I’m suspicious of any of the “secret” weapons of which we all hear, but never see. It seems like the same sort of disinformation used in the 1980’s to scare the Russians now being used to scare us into NOT resisting. MAYBE they have weapons that work in the lab, or under controlled conditions, but I’m skeptical even of that. They’ve suggested for years they have a “microwave” weapon that can cook crowds of people. Where did they test it? How do they even know it works anywhere but on a computer screen? If videos do appear of these weapons, how do we know it (the video) wasn’t created in Hollywood at the behest of govt? I will wait and see what happens, and I’m not going to worry about sci-fi weapons claims, and I will accept my death, if I’m wrong.

    The Bundys are RIGHT and the Govt is WRONG. The Constitution clearly limits federal land ownership to dockyards, forts, munitions storage facilities (“magazines”) and necessary office buildings. No provisions whatever for National Forests, National Parks, BLM land, Wilderness Study Areas, World Heritage Sites etc. You can’t legally charge “rent” on property you don’t own…

    #18755
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I really don’t believe anyone in our government would be so foolish as to force a fight with the population. The base of support for liberals in government comes from the urban areas. This is the same population that riots over sporting events and hates police authority. Every city will erupt in chaos if the government rebels against the people. Gun owners would not be alone in a fight with our own government.

    #18756
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>MountainBiker wrote:</div>Trying to get back on topic here and acknowledging that I haven’t gone back to the beginning of this thread to review all that has been discussed in the past, so my apologies if this has already been covered. How much of a difference do folks here think it makes as to how large the urban setting is (NYC vs a more moderate sized city like say Charlotte, NC) or where it is (Las Vegas in the desert vs an Eastern City with ample water resources), or some other variable? Also, do you see much difference between being in the city proper vs in the suburbs?

    MountainBiker, there are other things to consider as to cities. For example, if you have old people on board, they need to be close to a good hospital. It is a mistake for the elderly to go live in the boonies or stay in them. They simply must have easy and frequent access to the resources of a hospital. It has been my experience that the size population which has the barest essentials for medical care is about 3,000 people. As to other resources — repair shops, mechanics of all sorts, hardware stores and such — you need a town of about 7,000 to 10,000.

    That said, there is another point: the human quality of the population. New York is hell in some ways, but, in a catastrophe, its people pull together. If, say, thousands of cars are stuck on a bridge or highway in icy weather for hours and the people just ahead of you notice that you have little children in the car, they will come to you and offer you a blanket. Good luck getting that in Los Angeles!

    However, there’s another human quality that does apply to LA: Latino gang members will not loot their neighbors; they go to another part of town to do burglaries; whereas black gang members will loot you if you live next to them. Minnesotans are some of the nicest people, but they can also be awfully clannish; you may have heard an otherwise pleasant Minnesota Swede say with a sneer “THOSE people are Norwegian …”, whatever that means …

    That hard-to-define human quality also counts in a survival community. It isn’t all about water supply and waste disposal.

    There is another major point: cultural resources. It is awful for human beings to live in a setting in which all their effort is focused on eating and defecating. The books of Jackie Clay, for example, on food obtention, canning and cooking are wonderful; but that is all that there is in them. That wonderful woman has set up three homesteads with very hard work but, because of the hard work, she hasn’t been able to do much else. That’s fine if it satisfies you, but a lot of people need a mentally richer life. And, there, nothing beats the resources of a big city.

    You are taking TEOTWAWKI as you starting point, but TEOTWAWKI is only a theoretical construct and, short of World War III, not very likely. Realistically, what we have is a nonstop tightening of the screws of the police state on a passive population. Cities will not disappear, and they will not necessarily be a greater nightmare than the country. I have known far more criminals and violence in rural areas than in several cities that I know intimately.

    So, if you have a fine homestead in the country, by all means enjoy it. But consider that it is also possible to have a small homestead close to a city, camouflaged by thick, thorny vegetation — blackberry bushes and the like — and with the resources of a hospital, theaters and public libraries at hand. And take into consideration the human quality of the people of that city; you can find sterling people in the towns of Minnesota, Iowa, Arkansas and many other states — pretty much anywhere you look; just so long as you avoid an out-and-out pest-hole, you’ll be fine.

    #18758
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>oldfatguy wrote:</div>I don’t mean to suggest the entire gun-owning population will stand up to the threat–many will rightfully fear for their families, and be justifiably afraid of the superior firepower, but not all. There will–I strongly suspect–be millions of combat veterans, accomplished hunters and hard core recreational shooters that will engage, if not directly, in a hit and run type of attack as the Viet Cong, Arab Terrorists and even American Indians in the early days of America. As far as the ability of TPTB to “see” underground such a tiny cache is in serious doubt–they couldn’t find a jumbo jet that was beeping for a month before they finally gave up searching–and they knew the general area in which it would be found, as it could only go so far with the fuel on board. I’m reminded of the stories of the camera that could photograph “Russian license plates” we kept hearing about in the 1980′s. So where is that camera now? Why isn’t it still in use? We know that it isn’t because of the poor resolution of so many satellite photos. The camera and lens don’t exist. It was another govt lie to fool the Russians. I’m suspicious of any of the “secret” weapons of which we all hear, but never see. It seems like the same sort of disinformation used in the 1980′s to scare the Russians now being used to scare us into NOT resisting. MAYBE they have weapons that work in the lab, or under controlled conditions, but I’m skeptical even of that. They’ve suggested for years they have a “microwave” weapon that can cook crowds of people. Where did they test it? How do they even know it works anywhere but on a computer screen? If videos do appear of these weapons, how do we know it (the video) wasn’t created in Hollywood at the behest of govt? I will wait and see what happens, and I’m not going to worry about sci-fi weapons claims, and I will accept my death, if I’m wrong.

    The Bundys are RIGHT and the Govt is WRONG. The Constitution clearly limits federal land ownership to dockyards, forts, munitions storage facilities (“magazines”) and necessary office buildings. No provisions whatever for National Forests, National Parks, BLM land, Wilderness Study Areas, World Heritage Sites etc. You can’t legally charge “rent” on property you don’t own…

    The weapons do exist and have been tried in the Middle East. In their previous incursion into Gaza, the Israelis used a beam that literally sliced people. In Lebanon, they used a device that burned people UNDER the skin, i.e., the doctors would cut apparently near-normal skin open and find that the flesh inside was carbonized. All this was in the mainstream news. The weapons were from the U.S., and there is an ample supply of them here.

    I also know a guy whose stash of cash underground was found from a satellite. When the IRS guys showed up, they didn’t use metal detectors or anything. They just went straight to the spot and dug it up. Although he had buried it on a dark night, they already knew it was there.

    The same for the remote cave I found. I don’t think anyone from the authorities had been there, but they had it perfectly mapped and specified.

    #18759
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Oh thank god, now I’ll know how to survive in an urban setting because I know that communism is bad!

    :) Yea somehow thread goes in other direction, not saying it is bad topic, but maybe it deserves to be separate topic.

    Anyway for those who do not know, I lived few decades in communist country, born and spent some youth. Been communist pioneer (when you turn 7-8 years you get your own “small” communist party booklet, and you become “pioneer”) been on parades, taught about “bad sides of capitalism” and learned that “workers of the whole world will unite” etc.

    It is history now, but if someone have some question about something specific from that period feel free to ask.

    #18794
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Mr. Red wrote:</div>Oh thank god, now I’ll know how to survive in an urban setting because I know that communism is bad!

    Guys if you want to talk about different political ideology can we have a different thread or area of the forum to discuss that, instead of getting extremely off topic?

    Red, here’s some practical information that will help anyone survive in a city:

    USE THE GHETTOS.

    Make friends with people in the black ghetto, the Latino, the Chinese, whichever you can find within reach of your travel, and learn everything they can teach you.

    For example, Mexican Indians can show you how to kill a snake, skin it, slit it open, dry it in the sun, grate it and sprinkle that powder over your other food over several weeks. The health benefits are astounding. The Aztec who taught me died last month at the age of 102. Try to have powdered snake on hand.

    Forty years ago, when I checked out goats, the British manual I read said that, because of the peculiar composition of the milk, goat butter could only be obtained by the use of a special machine made in Wisconsin, USA. Ten years ago, I read an American manual and it said the same. Mexican Indians, on the other hand, showed me that, to obtain the butter, all you need do is pour the goat milk into a container with tiny holes on the bottom; the whey drains out and the butter remains — no special machine and no nonsense. An Arkansas farmer showed me that he did the same. If things go down, a goat is a prime resource for an urban home. City dwellers in dozens of countries keep, especially, goats and hens.

    If there is a Cuban in the neighborhood, ask him to show you how to make “arroz a la cubana” (“rice Cuban style”). It’s a simple dish and very nutritious: black beans, rice and a fried egg. The importance of it is that you will learn how to cook BLACK beans properly, which is not easy to do. The other beans can often be used interchangeably, but the black ones are of their own odd nature. In a tough situation, you want to vary your food as much as possible, break the monotony; black beans are a good alternative to all the others. Don’t despair if at first you don’t get it. It took me ten attempts to bring out correctly their specific flavor.

    If there is anyone from the “Southern Cone” in the area — Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay or Southern Brazil — see if he can show you how to make the “bolas” or “boleadora”. That’s what “gauchos”, their cowboys, use instead of a lasso. You fill three bags of leather or canvas with stones, tie each bag to a rope, tie the three ropes together at one end, grab that end, swing the whole thing over your head — hard, till it whistles — and let it fly at the target. You will find that you have created one heck of a weapon. Try it on a sturdy tree and, when you hear the “WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!”, imagine what it would do to a human being. It is very easy to capture someone who is running away; the ropes tangle around him, and the bags of stones hit him very hard; you can aim for the head and shoulders or for the torso or for the legs, depending on your intention.

    Another thing that people from the Southern Cone can teach you is how to get water from the air with what looks like sails of gauze. The people there capture fog water, at night and in the early morning, on large sheets of gauze, from which it drips onto gutters which carry it into containers. How much water you get depends on how much fog there is and how many square yards of gauze “sails” you have set out. (The bottom edge of each sheet is right above the gutter.) You can attach the sheets to trees or to frames that you build.

    Costa Ricans can show you how to fortify your house, compound or village with rails of the railway type, set in concrete. This is what they now use to surround their villages. They keep only one vehicle or two per village and go out with it once a fortnight or less for supplies they can’t produce themselves.

    Costa Ricans also simplify the smelly mess of gutting a fish by giving one quick push with their thumb in the middle of the animal making the guts spill out through an incision in the neck. Simple and efficient.

    Black people can show you, for example, how to use canvas as wall-to-wall carpeting at a fraction of the cost of real carpet. It feels practically the same when you step on it. They have many tricks like that. In a tough situation, you want as much comfort as possible; your family will be grateful.

    Chinese neighbors can show you so many things that it would take a separate blog to list them: qi gong that will replenish your energy in thirty minutes, all kinds of fighting, how to grow odd vegetables …

    Arabs can show you two simple measures to keep children safe:
    — The entire family has supper together. Always, no exceptions. Kids will not stay out late if they know that they are making everybody else go hungry; they are consistently home on time.
    — Kids may visit friends and relatives, but THEY ALWAYS SLEEP AT HOME. They do not spend the night at Aunt Harriet’s or Uncle Joe’s or classmate Jane’s; they come HOME to sleep. Always, no exceptions.

    And use ETHNIC STORES intensely. If there’s general panic, and you’re out of onions or carrots, go to the stores which Mexicans, Asians and others have for themselves. The very foods and drinks you want are there too. And you will find great medicines which the locals will be happy to show you how to use. The horde will be at the big chain supermarkets. Relatively few people will be at the ethnics.

    Note that the Chinese have a white powder, from the bark of a tree in Yunnan Province (their southwest), which heals wounds at lighting speed. It is actually called “White Powder” — in Chinese, “Bai Yao”. Tell them that you need “the white powder that you sprinkle on wounds” and they will know exactly what you’re talking about. Put that on your wound, and be amazed: you can see the wound heal by the hour.

    I hope the above helps.

    #18809
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Good reminder Anselm that people from other cultures have different solutions or alternatives that could come in handy some day.

    A difficult part of the whole urban survival discussion is understanding what scenario we’re talking about. All of my prepping assumes a long term and widespread grid down scenario. Others describe what to me sounds more like a shorter term but significant SHTF emergency of some sort.

    #18811
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Mountain Biker,

    That’s because we all have our personal scenarios.

    Selco has his war
    FeeFAL has his economic crisis
    And so on.

    We each prep and speak of the scenario that we have experienced, plan for or have nightmares about. Getting outside that bubble is difficult for many.

    I’m not saying that anybody is wrong, but god help us if someone is right.

    Since there is no definitive SHTF, it may last a week or two (hurricane), it may last a couple of years (depression), or may last an extended time (Carrington effect).
    It may be as simple as being laid off from work for a year. Its a personal SHTF, but no less serious for those involved.

    Me, I plan to put back enough food and supplies for at least 6 months again. Ammo? I have enough as long as I’m not getting into gunfights every day.

    Around here, the two real threats are economic and weather related. Everything else is just playing the what-if game.

    #18814
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    LINKS, Anselm, Links and Pix!

    Like they say on the “interwebs”,

    PIX, OR IT NEVER HAPPENED!

    Back your stuff up, troll-face!

    I know a lot about energy weapons, and all you are doing is hitting the wrong notes, “mister”…

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

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