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  • #18385
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    oldfatguy, They can stick the microchip were the sun doesn’t shine. They will have a problem with the cities, it will not be easy to control the gangs and criminals. They will not have chips put into them and they will kill the ones that get food. This will not work for them.

    #18454
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    If you ever grow vegetables the normal way, and once you have mastered how to deal with mildew and other diseases, as well as insects and other fauna, you will easily see that a plot 20′ by 20′ gives you enough veggies to feed your family twice over. In your home, it is likely that you have a room which is 15′ by 15′ or bigger. If, in that room, you go up walls and poles with little holes in them and grow both vine plants and non-vines in small containers, you will have a crop that is 15′ by 15′ and 15′ by 15′ and 15′ by 15′, as many levels as will fit. You will have the same number of plants as on the floor again and again on the different levels. If you have a skylight, there is no problem for the light to reach down. If you don’t, you can bring in gigantic amounts of light with large clusters of fiber optic cables; it has been done again and again in underground houses from Tokyo to Mexico City. It has also been done with mirrors, but the fiber optic system is easier.

    The problem you will have is the same as with a greenhouse: your plants will normally be more protected than outdoors but, if a virus or whatever does get in, the whole crop will be wiped out quickly. If it happens, just start over with a different crop. You will normally be successful.

    The same as, for several years, there has been a rage for square foot gardening, there is now one starting for vertical gardening. Check out their websites, and you will have their math coming out of your ears. But the best is simply to do the gardening. It’s easy and it works.

    You can also check out lasagna gardening, with no soil, just layers of paper. And you can combine methods.

    Then enjoy the fresh food.

    #18455
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>oldfatguy wrote:</div>You probably won’t believe this, but the reason they’re forcing you into cities IS to control your access to food and water–don’t want you growing, catching or hunting any food on your own. If you accept a microchip that will “identify” you, and can be linked to your bank account for purchases of food, water and other necessities, you’ll find yourself always fed. Refuse that chip, and you’ll be persecuted, and starved.

    You’re perfectly right. But look at the facts on the ground. They WILL force everyone off rural land, so you WILL be in the city regardless of whatever. That’s why your best bet is to head for the city directly, if you’re not already in it, and organize your survival there. By the time the grumbling, cussing, babbling “homesteaders” are dragged in — tagged for life as troublemakers — you can have your own system worked out.

    Already, there are several ways to deal with being chipped — or vaccinated. As you’re obviously smart, you can easily figure them out. Note that the ones who make the biggest ruckus over “Communism”, “Socialism” and the like don’t have the foggiest notion of what Communism and Socialism actually are. I lived under both and found it not hard to set up a “modus vivendi”. When I was in Taiwan, there was terror in the population that the mainland Communists would soon take them over, and they were all paranoid to flee to the U.S. Then, many who did get here saw that the U.S. absolutely stank in terms of jobs and other matters and went back to Taiwan to live much better than they ever would here. As for me, I moved to “ferocious mainland China” and checked out Communism from the inside. I found that, so long as you respected two taboos, you could do pretty much whatever you pleased; and there was none of the racial discrimination which, as a white man, I had suffered in Taiwan. Under Communism, there was actually racial and sexual equality all over the People’s Republic. There was also NO PROPERTY TAX. The Chinese, Communist and all, respect property, which the U.S. Govt. does not. And you could do what you pleased with your stuff; there was no Neighborhood ******** Association, as there is in U.S. subdivisions, bullying you to forbid you to do whatever. Medicine and education were nearly free, and their quality acceptable. Food was abundant and much better quality than in the U.S. Once I learned how to deal with their bureaucracy, life there was a piece of cake.

    As to Socialism, in the countries in which it has been implanted, it’s thanks to it that people have retirement pensions, assistance to the unemployed, serious maternity leave, paid vacations for everybody, and free or nearly free education and medicine. If the American public knew what it is missing, it would be green with envy.

    Keep in mind that, even if the powers that be check your bank account, etc. there will always be a black market in which something you were forced to buy can be traded for something you actually want. Right here and now, for example, thousands of people trade their food stamps for liquor. There are always holes in the system.

    If you’re old, you’re resourceful. So long as you actually want to, you will survive.

    #18477
    Profile photo of oldfatguy
    oldfatguy
    Survivalist
    member2

    I suspect that when the economy crashes, there will be riots. I’ve lived in two cities that had them during the 1960’s (race riot) and early 1970’s (anti-war riot). Businesses were burned and looted, anyone seen on the street who didn’t look like the rioters were beaten or raped, sometimes killed. In the case of the race riot, rioters went to residential neighborhoods of the “enemy” race, and molotov cocktails were thrown through windows. A crashed economy resulting in bouncing EBT cards will likely lead to race riots–with anyone resembling a “tea party” member being slated for destruction. After the riots quiet down, the city–those areas not burned to a crisp–might be a safe alternative. A farmer–with huge cultivated fields–will be easily found and robbed by TPTB, a little homesteader, with a less organized garden planted amid trees and, camouflaged by a lack of long furrows may never be noticed, if far enough off the main roads…

    #18490
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    You’re right. My main point is that, within the city or right next to it, you can camouflage your food supply, for example, by growing it either entirely indoors or outdoors in AMORPHOUS order, never, as you correctly point out, in long furrows. It’s very easy to have carrot, mustard, collard or turnip greens among the rest of your official lawn and backyard vegetation, and to have some cattails growing at a little pond in your backyard.

    If asked, you can bullshit neighbors, cops or whomever with the cattails being your form of expressing your sense of Feng Shui for the proper Zen harmony of your garden, that the reeds ascending to heaven and waving in the breeze yadda, yadda, yadda. Plus most people don’t even know that cattails are edible and very nutritious … If one of your trees is knocked down by a storm, you can use its rootball in particular as a trellis for tomatoes or any other vine plant growing on the FAR side, away from the street. If you have anywhere from half an acre to three acres, it’s easy to grow one melon here, one pumpkin there … Should anyone chance upon it, you feign surprise: “Whaddya know! Wind must have brought the seed, and I never even noticed! I’m gonna eat it right now. YOU WANT A PIECE?”

    Very important, that last part …

    It also helps, if neighborhood norms allow it, to have a beat-up old pickup in front of the house with the hood up and the seat missing and the house itself in a pathetic state of “unpainting”. If the neighborhood is, unfortunately, a subdivision, make sure you’re in the middle of a row of houses and that yours looks just like everybody else’s but a little poorer; then, camouflage in plain sight.

    #18496
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Anselm,

    Sooo, you sing the praises of Chinese Communism while at the same time telling us to circumvent the system? Even advocating circumventing the system? That makes no sense. If it’s so wonderful, then why not stay within the system and avoid the black market and cheating the system?

    I know what communism and socialism are, and I will vehemently oppose them with every iota of strength I have left.

    They WILL force everyone off rural land, so you WILL be in the city regardless of whatever.

    No. No, I don’t think I WILL be in a city…

    I think you underestimate a lot of folks.

    “They” can try to force me off my land. Notice I said “try”. If it comes to it, I will do what needs to be done. All “they” will inherit will be smoking ashes and poisoned ground. And “they” will end up writing a lot of condolence letters… I know “they” will get me in the end. But I will sell myself dearly…

    The most dangerous thing on earth is a free man who doesn’t give a **** anymore with his soul on fire…

    Futile efforts? Possibly. But when this life is over, I still have to go in front of the Almighty and my ancestors and explain to them how I was either a craven little pissant coward that died on his knees, or that I cowboy-ed up and stood tall when it mattered…

    You can have your cities. Go live in them all you want. Figure out ways to circumvent the “new” system and live with the decisions you make… because ultimately, you’re the one who has to live, and die, with them…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #18505
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    Malgus, I have not sung the praises of Communism of any nationality.

    Do read more carefully.

    This is not about emotions.

    It’s about putting beans on the table.

    And about staying autonomous.

    Think “Fight Club”, “Farenheit 451″.

    #18517
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Anselm,

    You –> “Malgus, I have not sung the praises of Communism of any nationality. Do read more carefully.”

    Oh, I read just fine, thanks for your concern. Your tone, and message, was and is perfectly clear:

    Note that the ones who make the biggest ruckus over “Communism”, “Socialism” and the like don’t have the foggiest notion of what Communism and Socialism actually are.

    I make a pretty big ruckus over Communism and Socialism, and I know exactly what they are. That you claim to know better – while telling folks who know what they are, and despise them – that those same folks don’t know what they’re talking about or are ignorant. That’s a pretty bold claim from someone who can’t say with any authority what anyone on this board knows or does not know. Or anyone else for that matter.

    Then there’s this: I moved to “ferocious mainland China” and checked out Communism from the inside. I found that, so long as you respected two taboos, you could do pretty much whatever you pleased; and there was none of the racial discrimination which, as a white man, I had suffered in Taiwan. Under Communism, there was actually racial and sexual equality all over the People’s Republic. There was also NO PROPERTY TAX. The Chinese, Communist and all, respect property, which the U.S. Govt. does not. And you could do what you pleased with your stuff; there was no Neighborhood ******** Association, as there is in U.S. subdivisions, bullying you to forbid you to do whatever. Medicine and education were nearly free, and their quality acceptable. Food was abundant and much better quality than in the U.S. Once I learned how to deal with their bureaucracy, life there was a piece of cake.

    Sounds, and reads, just like you’re singing the praises of Chinese Communism, which you just denied doing in your post at 7:45. This is equivalent to:

    You “I like cherry pie. It’s great. People who don’t like cherry pie don’t know ****.”
    Me: “Hey, you just said you liked cherry pie. No way.”
    You: “No I didn’t.”

    You also cite Neighborhood ******** Associations. I detest these groups too, and oppose them on principal. Which is why I bought a farm in an unincorporated area that doesn’t have any – many miles from any town that can annex my property.

    But the fact is that they are not part of any formal government, which begs the question as to why you even brought them up since you’re comparing the Communist system under the Chinese to what appears to be our current system here in the US. They are extra-governmental, extra-constitutional bodies that have **** to do with how state governments – and the Federal Government – are run. And I don’t like property taxes any more than anyone else – I detest and oppose taxes on principal. But you also overlook that not every state or commonwealth in the US have property taxes…

    This is truly hilarious –> “There was also NO PROPERTY TAX. The Chinese, Communist and all, respect property, which the U.S. Govt. does not.”

    It’s hilarious because under a communist system, there IS NO PRIVATE PROPERTY. It’s all owned by the state. How can the state tax itself?

    I did a bit of research.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

    It took a bit of wading through a bunch of legal gobbledygook, but two things are evident.

    First, is that property law in China is currently a cluster-****.

    Second, is this: “The law does not change the system of land tenure by which the state owns all land. However, in formalizing existing practice, individuals can possess a land-use right, which is defined in Chapter 10 of the law. The law defines this land-use right in terms of the civil law concept of usufruct.”

    So… you can get official “permission” to use the land, but you can’t OWN it. Not really. And, since you’re using the land with the “permission” of the Almighty State, I’m sure they didn’t just allow you on there in a fit of altruism or an overwhelming feeling of civic virtue. I’m sure the peasant Chinese are paying some form of “rent” to the State, in some form or another.

    So, to sum up:
    – You deny singing the praises of Chinese Communism while doing just that.
    – You assume people who rail against communism are ignorant because they’re not you. That they know exactly what it is, and hate it anyway, doesn’t enter your consciousness.
    – You compare the Government of China with extra-governmental, extra-Constitutional bodies like Homeowner’s Associations, apparently to reinforce the idea that the Chinese have it better.
    – You say they have no property taxes, failing to note that the Chinese have no property to tax in the first place.
    – You say the Chinese “respect property”. Yeah, when it’s all THE GOVERNMENT’S property and none belongs to anyone other than the Almighty State.

    Game.
    Set.
    Match.
    Owned.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #18520
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    This thread is a great thought exercise. But millions will still be rural, when the sheeple figure out that the F’ed Govt. is trying to make the final push to control everyone. In fact, there will be mass defections from the alphabet agencies, the military, and the federal workers themselves will likely stay in place and fight whomever the “tyrant-du-jour” is that will be pulling the levers. It may already be started, as the riots and demonstrating at the border by patriotic folks who ae trying to keep the new illegals OUT who are slated to vote in the 2014 elections… SHTF is this year my friends, unless the grassroots uprisings are effective enough to make TPTB rethink and soot for a later date. Even the Cliven Bundy standoff in Nevada was a humiliating defeat for the BM and the F’ed Govt. that I don’t believe they saw coming!
    If this 2014 election goes badly for freedom (and that may be hard to interpret!) the SHTF may be very very soon after it. Winter SHTF, could be the worst time for it :(

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #18522
    SharpDog
    SharpDog
    Survivalist
    member3

    OK, I for one am the ‘pry the guns from my cold dead hands type’, it seems to me there is no real consensus of what may or may not happen in SHTF. I think I can shed some light on this by describing my situation. I am in a suburban situation and don’t anticipate any type of bug out happening. This is because, likely, any sort of SHTF situation will happen gradually and also any type of BOL will be compromised by the gradual nature of the SHTF.

    To Wit: Those in a rural environment should prepare as such, those in an urban should prepare as such and those in the suburbs should prepare as such.

    For my situation, I’m adopting a strong component of physical, non-electronic, security (e.g. Dogs, strong barriers, locks, etc.) as well as a mix of strong modern security (cameras, electronic sensors, etc).

    In any circumstance, one should be well armed, well-fed, have plenty of water and medical supplies.

    The topics of friends, barter, etc. will apply to rural, suburban or city situations.

    Big Bears Don't Tree

    #18525
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Anselm, I agree 100% with Malgus.
    In Communism you are NOT the owner of anything! I know this for a fact! In Cuba not only did my family lose all there properties but so did ALL the American and European Companies. Now if you want to own anything the government needs to be your partner and own the larger percent of that property. PLEASE China does the same thing, I and my wife have friend here that are Chinese and they have to send back 50% ot what they make here if not they will not be able to go back to China to see there family.

    So if you like it so much PLEASE go live there. Communism is a lie! just like O is a lier.

    #18527
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    SharpDog,

    Good plan, making defensive works. Defense in depth, not a “crust” type defense. But don’t forget to leave yourself a rat-hole.

    A way out, I mean. Make it impossible for the Bad Guys to get in, and you’ve just made it impossible for you to get out. Reminds me of an old Drill Sergeant of mine… I asked him once why he ran us so hard. He told me we needed to be able to get out of trouble faster than we were able to get into it.

    Keep on keeping on, bro..

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #18528
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    “O” = Obama = KLUMMAC

    the “L” is for Lying

    ;)

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

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    #18571
    Profile photo of Anselm
    Anselm
    Survivalist
    member6

    Malgus, you are confusing things which are not the same. It is absolutely true that there is no private ownership of farmland in China; it is leased for 99 years, usually for a nominal fee, with option to renew. There IS private ownership of buildings, the condos and houses in which most people live, of cars and businesses and millions of other things. You are wrong that there is no private property under Communism; there is and plenty. When I lived there, two decades ago, the average 50-year-old Chinese owned his home free and clear and had the equivalent of US$ 6,000 in the bank. Both then and today the average 50-year-old American doesn’t own ****; he’s desperate paying off a mortgage, if it hasn’t been foreclosed on already, and he has nothing in the bank other than credit card debt. Today, all the Chinese I know have paid off their homes at ages 35 to 40 and have a lot more in the bank than their parents did then.

    I am not singing the praises of Communism, just pointing out some very important things in China which were then very good and which, today, are even better. I could just as easily talk about things that are bad, but it is not the bad things I am talking about; I am specifically considering the good. The hatred that you have been bred in blinds you to perceiving rationally good traits which do exist in those you hate. I have long said that most people do not think in reason; they think in feelings. Paul Craig Roberts, the most intelligent writer among the truly great American patriots out there stated the same thing recently: that Americans’ thought now is not fact-based but emotion-based.

    As a parallel example, incidentally, I have never been able to sit down with anyone to analyze what exactly made Hitler so great an orator as he was; people have been conditioned to be so allergic to that man that, on cue, the moment you say “Hitler”, they start frothing at the mouth spewing hatred.

    You and I are both living inside a police state at this moment. You absolutely do not know what Communism and Socialism are, and you do not know what you are going to do when the goons show up to disarm you. This is not supposition on my part; rather, it is based on your track record and on the track record of the whole gun crowd that is “going to do this and going to do that”. The fact is, there have been plenty of occasions when you should have done it already, and you did not do it. This is a material fact. Americans rebelled just once, in 1860, and they got stomped on. Since then, AMERICANS NEVER REBEL. That is no opinion of mine but a historical fact. The Carpetbaggers that robbed the South after the war were an outrage; no one rebelled. The Depression of the 1870’s was an outrage; no one rebelled. The lies told, then as now, to go to war in 1898 were an outrage; no one rebelled. The treatment of veterans in 1898 — thousands died in New York and North Carolina barracks after the war — was an outrage; no one rebelled. President Wilson lied in his teeth to get elected and, again, to go into World War I; no one rebelled. The veterans, desperate and starving, who gathered in Washington D.C. to claim the money the government owed them were assaulted by the cavalry under General Douglas MacArthur; no one rebelled. The Great Depression was provoked, not dealt with, and the entry into World War II was engineered; no one rebelled. Need I go on? Today, the behavior of the police is an obscenity, and the great financiers have benefitted from the greatest robbery of the American people in history, and NO ONE REBELS. Psychiatrists have the axiom “Past behavior predicates future behavior.” So I am confident that the American people will never rebel. Just look at it: no matter how badly treated, since 1865, they never have. So you, Malgus, and all the bloggers like you, will do nothing; otherwise, you would have already. Katrina was a trial run; the Government checked out what the people would do; the people did NOTHING. Therefore, I think it sensible to believe that the people will continue to do NOTHING.

    #18572
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Henceforth, you tend to become part of the problem, Anselm…

    Either that or you will offer a solution within the next post or 2. Provocative statements made, with no offer of a solution are worthless, IMO.

    That’s OK, go off and dream of a utopian society all day, but MalGus and the rest of us will be ready for come-what-may.

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

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