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    Well said Leopard. White South Africans spreading around the world will just be doing what so many other groups have done before them. Throughout the history of the US immigrant groups have clustered with others from their home country and as a result the ethnic mix varies by region. Here in New England the majority are of some combination of English-Irish-French heritage but you can find towns that are mostly Polish, Italian, Portugese, or whatever because at some point in the past many people from the same area came here and clustered together. Down in the Carolinas and Virginia, I would hazard a guess that the majority are of Scotch-Irish and English heritage. Some States or regions are mostly of German heritage or Scandinavian heritage and so forth. No matter their background, all want the same things you describe… and well being. It is just profoundly sad that the whites in SA are in the position they are in and feeling they must emigrate.

    One additional thought. Throughout history the people who have emigrated to new lands have usually been either the oppressed/disadvantaged that had nothing to lose or the ambitious that saw better opportunities elsewhere.

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    Leopard, first I’m very glad to hear about the rain. I hope somehow they can capture enough of it to have a store of it for the coming dry times again.

    Mountainbiker characterized it rather well as conditions relate to the US. One additional factor, however, is the issue of black Americans. They obviously aren’t part of the other groups (European, Scandinavian, British, etc.) in various parts of the US. They are very small in numbers in some areas, but in others, they’re large enough to create enormous difficulties – when they choose to – even in majority white areas. I shudder to think what it must be like where the situation is reversed, and you are the minority, with such open (even murderous) hostility by the majority. It’s bad enough here by a minority OF the minority. MB’s “additional thought” is spot on. From your description, it might appear that the white population in SA fits into both of his two categories. If it’s possible, I truly hope that you (and the other South Africans here) can indeed emigrate in favor of a longer term safe, and hopefully prosperous future.

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    We haven’t heard from our South African members in a while. How are things down there?


    This is a gut-wrenching, to the point piece of editorial from Zimbabwean entrepreneur Trevor Ncube. He states simply that the country is literally broken. And a once admired leader in Robert Mugabe has thrown away his reputation over the past tumultuous 30 years. Its people, their minds and spirits, and the infrastructure are all broken, rotting infact. He argues that a ‘Third Way’ is needed in Zimbabwean politics to fix it It’s time to reject Zanu PF’s politics of corruption and murder, a rejection of pedestrian politics. Some fascinating weekend reading and a lesson for those in South Africa and the rest of Africa of how absolute power corrupts.The piece was first published in the ZImbabwe Independent. – Stuart Lowman

    Julius Malema of the EFF (Economic Freedom Fighters) have declared this week that President Zuma is not the real enemy but that white South Africans are. He said that they will be coming for us and everything we own soon. He also stated that it is black people’s duty to have as many kids as possible so that they can outnumber us even more. This is the mentality we are dealing with. White people have less children to give them a better chance. He (Malema) maintains that your children will look after you one day. With unemployment so high in South African (48% +-) amongst blacks 18 – 35 I wonder who would be looking after who? In a world that is changing so fast unemployment will just get worse as everything gets automated to get rid of labour as fast as possible.

    I took my boy yesterday to a career counselling/assessment psychologist to find out what subjects he should select for his AS-Levels and A-levels in Cambridge curriculum and then what line he should consider for further study. He has an IQ of 148 (1% in the world has an IQ of 145 to 159) and the guy said to me that he could basically do whatever he wants to but that he would recommend he does a Engineering Degree in Electronics ie Mechatronics (Robotics). He said Michael achieved a 9 (the highest range 1 -9) which he has never had anyone achieve in Math and Logical thinking. I know that our universities are going to be the breeding ground of much of what is going to go wrong in the future here in South Africa. I also know that at University of Pretoria where my daughter studies that out of 1500 first year students only 30 managed to pass the calculus in their first year. Hence, the fact that I chose to have my kids to the British Cambridge curriculum. We pay through our necks to have our children in private school to educate them as best as possible. Even two children are breaking us financially but that is what we decided to have and that is what we will do for them. Do I educate this boy in this country where I know that our engineering curriculums are outdated and nobody can finish the degree. (Surely they will have to bring the standard down??? or has already) The children do not have the Math capability at school level to do these degrees. South Africa’s top universities were consistently amongst the top 300 in the world during white rule. We have since moved down in ranking whereby University of Pretoria (Tukkies) is sitting at 587th somewhere.

    I feel like climbing on a boat and crossing the Mediterranean just so that this child can get a decent education in Germany. LOL

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    dorette, you have spoken before of what is happening with universities in SA. Surely the political leaders can see what is happening and know the deterioration will continue, yet they continue on the same path so long as they get a share of the loot.

    It was way back in 1990 but when our daughter was 11 and went for her admission interview at a private school, the Head of the Middle School (7th/8th grade) part of the school was from Zimbabwe. You would term him colored. Here in the US he is considered black being we don’t differentiate in that manner. He had a large map of Africa in his office and asked her if she knew where Zimbabwe was. Being I had taught her geography since she was very young she knew exactly where it was. He was very impressed as I doubt many kids her age did know. He had already been in the US for many years and was clearly proud of his home country. I sometimes wonder how sad he must be at what it has become.

    Are there any signs that SA might change the course it seems to be on? Surely they can see what is happening.


    No, I think we are going down and faster than we think. We will be having Municipal elections in August and some high level people seems to think that if the ANC should lose a large city like Johannesburg that we might have a war on our hands. There are Zuma loyalists mainly Zulu people in Kwazulu Natal (province) and then there are those that are anti-Zuma. Then you have the very radical EFF under Julius Malema who will cause a full scale race war.

    Inflation is on the rise with our weak Rand and the fact that we have to import maize and wheat because of a severe drought. Food prices have gone up quite heavily.

    So we plan to get out of Johannesburg as fast as possible when the nonsense start. We have friends in Namibia (Windhoek) where we can stay and he said he would “employ” my husband in order to let him legally be able to stay in Namibia.

    These people are set on destabilising South Africa.



    In some of our eyes, the country was destabilized prior to 1992.
    And that is not a statement supporting apartheid, just what has happened since the ANC has taken over.

    Please go on an extended vacation, take August off somewhere ‘safe’.
    Beat feet before something happens.
    Same goes for all our Saffer members.

    When the dust settles, decide what to do.

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    The entire idea IS to fully destroy both the social order and the political order. Watch what’s happening – that’s exactly what’s going on, when you really observe and analyze it. What’s far less comprehensible is the fact that rational, intelligent, thinking human beings could intentionally do that. But recognition that they are, is essential to making sense of it, and planning one’s escape from it. In very brief, if you’re interested:

    Get a copy of Marx’ and Engels’ Communist Manifesto and completely disregard the first three long chapters. Don’t even bother reading them unless for some intellectual reason you just happen to want to. They aren’t really relevant to what’s actually contained in the last (4th) chapter (they call them “sections”). Unlike the previous three chapters, it’s a deceptively short 3/4 of one page long. It can easily be passed over as unimportant because of its brevity. I wonder sometimes if that was all intended, too, but that’s an entirely different discussion. Just read that final page, and then go back and read it again, and again, and again – there’s a huge amount of information there. Realize what’s really being said. When you understand the intended end result, and understand that some ultimate power MUST come in behind the chaos to sustain what the “revolution” is supposed to bring about, you’ll then realize that it is every bit about total power and control – not the much nicer sounding economic theories discussed in the irrelevant first three chapters (so called socialism or communism). The ultimate goal is to destroy the social and political order, not “change” it, “modify” it, or “tweak” it – but to “destroy” (their word) it, by any means necessary. Crazy? To you and me, yes. To them, not at all.

    Who dies and who lives is irrelevant (other than their own power-elite, who certainly are protected). Who suffers? They don’t care. The more chaos the better – remember, it’s all about the destruction of the social order (and the political order that helped keep that in place).

    That, Dorette, is what’s happening. It’s not about “free education.” It’s not about “equality.” It’s not even really about retaliation for the abuses of the previous system. It’s about toppling the very existence of what you know as “South Africa” by destroying (not hurting, not crippling, but destroying – Marx’ word) both your social and political order. Look around and ask yourself if that isn’t exactly what is being done. Totally disregard the part of you that says, “But who in their right mind would want to DESTROY society and the way we govern things?” You aren’t dealing with people whose version of “rational” has any relationship to ours. To us, it’s insane. That’s what helps them keep us guessing, because we don’t want to consider that there are actually people whose goal it is to fully implement the last (3/4 page) chapter of Communist Manifesto. Here in the U.S. we’re on the same path that you’re on, as is Europe. We just haven’t traveled as far down the road – yet.

    I could not agree with Whirlibird’s recommendations any more strongly than he put it.


    Hi All

    Oh my word, GeorgiaSaint, you make so much sense!!!! Thanks for the advice Whirlibird.

    One question GeorgiaSaint, if this is where the world is going in order to bring in a one world government then no one is really going to be safe anywhere. You’ll most probably see upheaval everywhere in the world. I followed an American guy (Bob Chapman) on financial matters by listening to him being interviewed, he has since passed away. He used to live in Rhodesia and I contacted him once via email once and this is what he said:

    “The rand is not a viable alternative because the only
    reason it is going up is because the dollar is going down and that makes
    prospects of a strong economy less likely unless the currencies of those who
    South Africa trades with rise equally with the rand. And, of course, you
    have a Communist government. Incidentally I lived in S. Africa and Rhodesia
    in the early 1970s. I think there will not be a Bancor or an SDR used
    internationally. I think local currencies will revalue and devalue and
    there will be defaults all multilaterally. You should have
    left S. Africa 20 years ago before your country got sold out by its leaders
    just as Smith sold out Rhodesia. I would move out of S. Africa ASAP because
    the ANC is going to nationalize the mines and probably lots more. There is
    no longer safety in S. Africa for White people or even Black people for that
    matter.” he also said: “In a worldwide
    crisis they would be hit hard due to high costs and a Marxist government.
    Do not have to tell you about Africans. The ANC is dreadful. On a scale of
    10 – 10 being the worst, the US and England are 10s, S. Africa 7 and Canada
    and Australia 4 or 5. As you know over the past 20 years many white people
    have left S. Africa and Zimbabwe. If the US falls everyone will fall in
    varying degrees, and they’ll be massive crime and revolution and most
    countries – S. Africa will be a mess. Yes, stocks will crash but gold and
    silver shares will rise. Yes, anything with stocks will go down if the
    market goes down.
    A new currency, say an SDR or bancor, which would be fiat. There could be a devaluation against other
    currencies and that would worsen the situation in all currencies that presently exist.
    All of Africa has no future. No, most blacks do not even pay water and
    electric bills and crime is unbelievable versus other countries. There is no
    hope for S. Africa. You should get out while you still can.”

    The funny thing is I cannot convince my husband to leave. He keeps on saying I have a company that I have to maintain in order to send these kids of ours to private school. He maintains that he cannot start over at the age 58 with a 16 year old still in the house and another at university. So while he is still making money his argument is give the kids an education at least no one can take that away from them.

    Our argument is this that at least here we can educate the kids at an international standard as long as our company is making money. It would be of the utmost importance to get out of the cities in time and be prepared to lose everything once SHTF by having some money and assets out of the country. Get to a safer place and organised into a group of similar thinking people.

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    dorette. I can understand your husband’s thinking of getting the kids well educated being that is something that no one can take away, and also how terrifying it must be to contemplate starting over at his age. I think he and I might relate to each other very well. If your son is only 16, then you still have a somewhat long time frame for his education to be complete. The question then is how long do you think SA has before conditions become too unsafe. Nobody can know the real answer of course. What would seem in order then is putting in place a couple exit plans, including your daughter’s who is in a different city. It is good that you have a place to go in Namibia but not every scenario allows for just hopping on a plane if there are infrastructure breakdowns for example or violence at the airport. Maybe there is a trigger point where you start shipping certain things you don’t want to lose up to your friend’s place. What I am trying to say there is that the exit can be in phases, including the sale of your home and business in anticipation of leaving.


    The not being able to leave while the kids are in “school” I can understand.
    But with all that is happening, it’s well to insulate yourselves from potential problems as much as possible.
    Have the business set up to run itself if you can for short periods of time.
    Start squirreling money away, either cash or “offshore” to allow you to ride out the storm.
    Again, plan that vacation elsewhere during the election process, just in case. While there, one can consider what to do and where to go if it does go south in relative safety.

    Not wanting to leave ‘home’, we can all comprehend.
    No one wants to be driven out by some ignorant savage, be it in Chicago or Springbok.
    But one also has to both accept and know, when to make haste and beat feet before the axe falls.

    There is a level of willing and planned ignorance that can’t be fought or ignored.
    Your leaders have it, our leaders have it.
    The difference?
    Your leaders are openly calling for and supporting genocide.
    Ours haven’t gotten that brazen, yet.

    And we have one advantage here, the freedom loving people still outnumber the mooks.

    Find a hidey hole, plan accordingly.
    I can’t see anything getting better in SA, or more accurately, in Africa in the foreseeable future.
    Which is sad, because there is so much potential for much of Africa, if one could remove those in power.

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    The joke I heard when in NZ recently was if you want to know how many kiwis are in a room just yell student debt and count how many people run for the exit.

    Don’t know if that applies to SA. I was quite happy recently when my daughter paid off her student loan the first year out of college. She lives at home doesn’t have a car or expenses essentially. She managed to keep her college costs down with scholarships. I wasn’t going to let her take out a mortgage on her future. She’s saving for a car now. I told her a new car was the way to go. In this economy going into major debt at a very young age is slavery. I’ve heard of kids 10 years down the road just starting to pay off the principle on the debt. It’s crazy. One more gov.debt bubble to burst. With the cost of inflation I can’t add up how much my wife and I have put into her education over the last 23? years. In a country USA going to the dogs (20-100+ trillion $ in debt) where jobs are getting ever harder to come by. It’s pretty incredible. Everywhere seems to be the same. Produce a product at a higher cost and sell it to millions of hopeful parents for indefinite future returns. Lol – we’ve certainly gotten an education.

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    I think MB and WB have said it well – don’t let your history bind you too long, and end up in a situation where you no longer have the means and/or freedom to get out. Take the steps now, be as ready to make whatever move becomes necessary, on very short notice.

    Probably the only thing with which I’d take some issue in Bob Chapman’s email is his statement, “On a scale of
    10 – 10 being the worst, the US and England are 10s, S. Africa 7 and Canada and Australia 4 or 5.”

    Not living anywhere else, I’ve only got direct personal experience with the U.S. I haven’t been out of the U.S. in decades, so anything I’d say about other countries would be at best, intelligently speculative. But as bad as I think things are here, I still would not want to try my luck anywhere else. Do I expect it to get worse here? Most definitely. And what happens with our November elections could radically alter the time frame for our own collapse, depending on the makeup of our Congress beginning next year, combined with whoever the next president is, and at least one (probably more) Supreme Court appointment. Some of the freedoms we still enjoy could become more problematic, including the right to own just about any firearm we want in most locations around the nation, and not even have to register them (though current purchases are tracked very “nicely” as evidenced by how quickly the news media can report when and where a school-shooter obtained all his weapons, for example). There are many people that own older guns that came back from WWII, were purchased long before there was any government record keeping, etc., and most of those aren’t listed on any government register – nor are they required to be (currently – subject to change, pending political conditions). And for the most part, I can travel anywhere I want to go in the U.S. without ever being stopped for any reason. There are relatively rare drug/alcohol check points set up for random checks, but that’s something few people run across over multi-year periods in most areas. We haven’t gone too far down the road to a cashless society where every single purchase can be tracked, if the government so desires. I can walk in any store and pay cash for most anything I want, without question (except perhaps $10,000+ purchases that might get reported due to the government crackdown on large amounts of cash (supposedly to combat illegal drug trafficking). And private transactions are quite simple, particularly with cash or barter.

    So there are still a lot of freedoms left that many countries simply don’t enjoy anymore (particularly the ability to protect and defend ourselves, generally including concealed carry in most public areas). I agree that if the U.S. goes down financially, most of the world will come down, too. But that’s a safety factor in a way – China, Saudi Arabia, and others are making noises about hurting the U.S. financially. Yet if they do TOO much damage, it will impact them as well.

    Do I see it all being well in the future? No. Call it pessimism or simply realism, I don’t care. I think we’ve gone too far in the U.S. to have an orderly (or probably peaceful) transition back to what our Founders envisioned. But if I had to pick a better country, I don’t believe I could find one. This nation has the potential for resource self-sufficiency if needed, has a still relatively well educated population, and a history of innovation. Those things don’t go away just because SHTF – they simply won’t be able to be maximized for a period of time, perhaps a long period of time. Oh – and we’re not (yet) being overrun by “refugees” from who knows where. Yes, we’ve got a lot from South and Central America, but many of them are productive, and few of them have any serious criminal intent toward directly harming the U.S. Compared to Europe, we’re in FAR better shape in that regard.

    The bottom line is that you and your husband both have good minds, and you’re both looking out for the welfare of your family. While it may not be time to leave (or at least for his comfort level with leaving), you can still be making plans to implement in a number of different scenarios, and be as ready to go as possible before you simply can’t get out. And if you have to leave, you’ll at least be leaving with your minds and your lives. There are worse alternatives.


    Hi All

    Yes, I think it is time to actually start moving certain items out. We will be driving out and not flying out, routes planned already. SMS system/radios in place to move out in convoys with scouts. Communication systems in place. The only thing not done is selling the house. There are so many people leaving the country that property sells slowly and at very reduced prices.

    I cannot get my husband to just up and go. He refuses. I got him as far as making plans on how to move out and when to move out. We live on the outskirts of the city so routes are carefully planned to avoid areas of concern. We will lose a lot because I cannot convince him, however, at that stage I am sure that being alive most probably would be all that counts. I got him so far as to apply for a gun license and he has been refused. We now have a lawyer on the case. What the government is doing is they are dragging their feet on giving a license, so somebody took them to court and they are now being forced to deny or approve within 3 months. So hopefully we would get it in time. I have a gun and license.

    I truly get what you are saying about us having a long way to go with education but I have to try to do this within the family unit. We had visas for Australia and at the last minute my husband pulled out. The Australians also saw us coming as we would have had to buy a business. They try to make money out of basically establishing a registered company with nothing else in it at a cost of USD 350 000.00. You can either lose the money here or lose it there. However, he would have to make a certain turnover in order to stay and would not be allowed to work for anyone but give work to Australians. The visa has since expired. I was hoping to get my daughter educated with a degree and my son with at least his ICGSE certificate before all of this comes tumbling down, I think we are not going to manage that.

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    It sounds like you have done a lot of planning, and there are no easy answers. Whatever happens, work together as a family. In a severe crisis situation, it would be an advantage to still have each other’s mutual support. High stress can tear families and marriages apart – guard against that at all costs, and resist the human tendency to see opposition as a sign of an enemy. You two have built a large amount of success over the years, apparently including two great kids. Keep that unit.

    And yes – I’ve read about the requirements to get into Australia. From their standpoint it may make some sense, but it certainly is difficult for outsiders (which is probably their point). It makes renting a boat and sailing it across the Mediterranean seem almost like an option! (ONLY kidding!) ;-)

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