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  • #44110
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    Seems a county in Colorado is having second thoughts about folks that live off the grid.
    Robin

    http://www.homesteadnotes.com/off-gridders-forced-back-on-the-grid/2/

    #44112
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    Another example of an out of control government at every level. This country was built on freedom to live as you choose. Now the commissars decide how you are going to live.

    #44113
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Thanks for that, Robin – excellent addition. If I own land, I MUST be hooked up to municipal water, sewer, and power? I’m not allowed to be self-sustaining on my own bought and paid-for land? This story elicited language out of my mouth that I thought I had purged long ago. {weak grin} And it elicited thoughts that some in authority would take action against if spoken. In other words, it really got to me.

    I clicked the link in that story to the original from which it was taken. Wow! That the general population is completely oblivious to all this is not only frightening, but dangerous – because a handful of individuals cannot fight it. Here’s just the end of that linked article.

    From the White House using race to change national zoning laws and define who can live in certain neighborhoods, to global corporations using eminent domain to steal homes, to the city of Seattle trying to ban single-family homes, there is a war on self-reliance brewing. It’s becoming harder and harder for independent, freedom-minded people to find somewhere to live without having to worry about government intrusion. It seems freedom loving Americans are under attack from every direction.

    I’ve covered story after story…

    ● World War II veteran loses family business and land after local government uses eminent domain to claim ownership of his property.
    ● Andrew Wordes takes his own life after code enforcement teams attempt to steal his land to build a park.
    ● Off-Griders in California being threatened with arrest for living off-the-grid.
    ● Obama Admin Uses EPA to Take control of Private Land: Claims all Nation’s Waterways; Creeks, Wetlands, Ditches, and Ponds
    ● EPA Bypasses Congressional Ruling and Seizes entire Wyoming Town

    Parting comment: Steppenwolf had it right (can you believe “Monster” was released 46 years ago?!?):

    America where are you now?
    Don’t you care about your sons and daughters?
    Don’t you know we need you now
    We can’t fight alone against the monster

    #44122
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Used to have some land down in the valley, glad I got rid of it.
    (Most of the time)

    Part of the problem comes from people who get permits, start but never finish and the place gets taken for taxes.

    The county then has to go in and scrape it clean in many cases.
    By requiring utilities, they are trying to minimize those that start but never finish.
    Had a several hour conversation with the county assessor and company when I wanted to put up a straw bale house and the permit was $5000 more than if I owned my place 2 miles north.

    They actually had a couple of summer guys that did nothing but scrape junk off land that was abandoned, to help keep the county clean.

    I can see hoth sides in this one.

    #44124
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Part of the problem comes from people who get permits, start but never finish and the place gets taken for taxes.

    The county then has to go in and scrape it clean in many cases.
    By requiring utilities, they are trying to minimize those that start but never finish.”

    I can’t see how this is sound reasoning. Most of the folks getting permits probably planned on utilities to start with, but even if they intended to be off grid it doesn’t make sense. Making a project cost more doesn’t help people that can’t afford to finish a construction project.

    Municipalities requiring effective sanitary systems is understandable and a good thing, protecting ground water and the drinking water supply, as well as the general ecology. But a septic system or some other method of controlling waste is not a utility. I don’t think making everyone hook up to the power plant resolves that issue.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Profile photo of 74 74.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Profile photo of 74 74.
    #44128
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Do they really mean town sewer hookups instead of septic? If so my guess is that the real reason is they just don’t want people living in the countryside. I looked it up and Costilla County is only 3,500 people in 1,200 square miles. It looks to be more or less empty desert. No way are they going to run sewer and water lines across that large an area for so few people. 100% of my town is on septic and private wells, even in the village itself.

    #44137
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Its not that they don’t want people in the countryside.
    But with some living in trailers and dumping their grey water wherever they please, it gets nasty, and the water table is low there (think punchbowl), septic must be researched properly.

    My place had an artesian well, flowed year round.
    But septic would have been more of a challenge.
    It would have had to be on the opposite corner of the property to be safe and functional.

    The SLV is a whole different place, think of a third world country transplanted and you’d be close.

    This is a place where hanta virus is still going strong.

    #44143
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Thanks for the added info Whirli. I am not familiar with terrain/climate like that. Here the State has to approve new septic and well installations so as to protect everyone’s wells in addition to wetlands, streams and such. Not a big deal in most instances. My son is doing that now for the property he bought.

    #44155
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    It’s not just grey water, in fact that is the least of the concerns. The article says “Other changes to the code would require water, sewer and electricity to be installed” so they aren’t talking about town sewers. The off grid residents should be able to workout methods to meet sanitary requirements even if it means composting toilets. Mounds and other systems are workable. A hole in the ground isn’t going to cut it.

    People need to elect the right people at every level, the county commissioners’ in San Louis were elected and are listening to other people in the county. Requiring permits to camp on your own land is pretty intrusive though. Everything they want except sewers is discretionary. Get some homesteaders elected to the board of commissioners.

    Municipalities have the EPA on their butts to enforce sanitary systems. Every municipality has to have “Integrated Municipal Stormwater and Wastewater Plans” as part of the Clean Water Act

    http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/npdes/stormwater/Integrated-Municipal-Stormwater-and-Wastewater-Plans.cfm

    #44160
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    This gets to me on a fundamental level. I certainly have no problem with requiring that a property owner not create hazardous pollution on his/her property, because the property might one day be sold. And I have even more of a problem with a property owner creating a condition (be it pollution or other conditions) that negatively impact other people that don’t live on or even come on the property. And if a person owned a piece of property that also happened to have a substantial, running stream through it, and that water was used by multiple people for multiple purposes along its path, then I’d have a problem with the person doing major, deep construction of a lake bed and damming up the stream or small river to create a sizable lake. Firing a shotgun on one’s property and having the pellets fall on someone else’s property (or head, as was the case one new year’s eve in our area several years back), is a similar type of problem. It’s called welfare of others, and is a case-by-case issue (or should be). Going in and shooting up a community college as was done today is also an individual issue, just that the consequences are far worse than many other things a person can do.

    The real problem, at least for me, is creating laws that blanket any and everything even remotely related to the specific problem, and pre-punishing everyone! If I want to live out there, use a composting toilet as 74 brought up, collect the rain that falls on my property on those rare occasions, and collect the sunlight to be converted to electricity, don’t tell me I can’t if I bought and paid for that property – and particularly if there aren’t any zoning standards for what types of structures can be built in a designated residential area (which this is not).

    If individuals are polluting, handle it on an individual basis. If there aren’t laws to handle it, then create them with the outcome that those laws would ONLY be triggered on a case-by-case basis IF an actual problem arose and the land owner was unwilling to rectify the problem.

    I happen to live in an area with houses that are reasonably close to each other, and there are zoning standards that are reasonable for such a neighborhood. I neither want to look at a neighbor’s lawn that’s two feet high, nor (particularly) do I want to have to deal with the weed seeds that are blown over into my yard, where I endeavor to keep weeds to a minimum and a nicely trimmed lawn. That’s called community standards for a specified area of land with homeowners that would reasonably be expected to share roughly similar ideas of how they want their neighborhood to look. But if I move out to the middle of what’s effectively a desert such as this story, I have no right whatsoever to expect my neighbor to maintain a well manicured front lawn so his weeds don’t migrate on the wind over to my property. It ain’t that kind of “neighborhood!”

    This same type of thing has been going on in the very north part of Los Angeles (CA) County for years, where people that don’t have a neighbor within a mile or more are held to absurd standards or thrown off their owned property because an L.A. official was on a power trip. There are many stories and videos, but perhaps this one sums it up best in less than 5 minutes.

    Regardless of the individual circumstances in any one given case in San Luis, Colorado, my overall position stands.

    #44164
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    I watched the video GS. Govt.out of control. I think what happens is city or county govt sometimes take on a life of their own. The more regulations they have, the more violations they can find, and the more violations they find, the more staffing and budgets they get to have. Even small towns aren’t immune to this, depending upon the level of public involvement and oversight there is. Fortunately for me, local govt and regulation is very minimal here.

    #44168
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Bingo! Exactly. We lived just east of LA County for a number of years, and some of the names in these stories were in prominent in government way back when we lived out there three decades ago.

    It’s very refreshing to hear from people like you who live in the few pockets that are still relatively unspoiled (at least compared to the rest of the nation). It does bring a tiny spark of hope to see such places still exist around the country. But don’t worry – they’ll find you soon. <weak grin> Seriously though, I’m happy for you.

    #44171
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    People that are out of control in local government cause bigger and bigger problems as they migrate up through the system and become representatives at state and federal levels. The only way to stop them is to Vote the weasels out when they are at the local level. Go to the local town and county meetings to voice your concerns before stupid people pass stupid laws or try to enforce laws in ways that don’t make sense. Most people don’t have a clue what their local government is considering.

    #44173
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    74 is right. Years ago I was on the town’s Planning Board and as a matter of course we were required to hold public hearings on any new zoning regs. Pretty much nobody came. As is the case in much of small town & rural New England zoning and any other regulations then had to be approved at Town Meeting where common sense would usually prevail. My understanding is that in the rest of the country people don’t have that level of control at the local level and that the bureaucrats get to decide what to do which makes it all the more important to attend public hearings. My experience is that it was often the zealots that tried to get onto the Planning Board and onto the Zoning Board of Appeals.

    Attending public hearings can make a difference. Years ago when residential properties were rising in value faster than commercial properties where I lived, the Selectboard and the Assessors got it in their heads that the fair thing to do would be to charge commercial property a higher rate than residential property. What they really wanted was to lower the residential tax rate so as to keep voters happy and the commercial properties were an easy target to make that happen. Split rates like that were allowed by law in MA. I called the owners of the larger commercial properties in town to tell them what was happening and they all showed up at the public hearing. The Selectboard and Assessors were shocked into silence and withdrew their proposal. Basic fairness prevailed (everyone paying at the same rate based on the value of their property)

    #44175
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Unfortunately I have experience with this issue myself as a victim of local governance & sewers. On the positive side, after the fact that they had already passed onerous decisions. Our community reversed the flow, (so to speak) after 3 or 4 meetings with the commissioners and the passage of about one year. I’ve also represented the company I worked for at meetings in a small city, where only 2 or 3 people would show up from the populous. However the hall would be filled with union representation. The city commissioners were exactly the type of person you would never want running anything, not even a Cub Scout banquet much less a city.

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