Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #7568
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    Lets be honest, many folks on here are visiting 3 or 4 key blogs/sites/forums regularly (read daily) for tips/hints/updates and discussions. There is no harm in this at all, and sharing experiences and learning lessons is very much the ‘heart’ of Selco and Jay’s site here. With that in mind I just saw a good post on ‘Ferfal’s’ site that got me thinking about a friend of mine. The topic was the classic ‘city vs country’ and the merits of one place or the other… In the interests of free spirited sharing of information you can see the post here: http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/3319

    My reply is clearly visible in comments, but bears repeating, my estimation (Especially in Europe but EQUALLY applicable in may other countries (Yes I include the USA)) is most folks are GROSSLY underestimating their potential bug out scenarios… Here is my reply:

    “Indeed, there can well be circumstance that the regional situation (read entire country or area) means the situation is so bad you will keep on going from border to border until you are out of the impacted area.

    A good friend of mine (now) 4 years ago ‘bugged out’ (to use the colloquial term’) of Afghanistan, in 18 months he got to Scandinavia where he settled (And I met him and became friends)Google it, have fun counting the countries he had to travel through… Oh he was 18 years old when he had to do that BTW…”

    I should add he disclosed much of the details of his journey to me, but does not consent to it’s disclosure, but it was EPIC…

    Folks, unfortunately I am not going to go in to so much detail of how I arrive at my conclusions or my experiences and research in this matter, and nor is that necessary! You can all find a litany of examples yourselves with simple websearches… All I would highlight is the sage words of my good friend Rory Miller:

    “Do not run away from danger, but towards safety”

    Understand, really, history shows that the ‘run’ may be measured in hundreds if not thousands of miles…

    Sorry to be so dour in this post, but we are here to cut through BS and share the reality, and the reality is such… If you ‘only’ have to move a few tens or hundreds of (insert metric of preference here) good… But be prepared you may have to go WELL beyond that, and build your skills and mindset accordingly…

    #7572
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Getting around is going to be a problem , some states are huge , especially in the west are bigger by 2-3 times that of some countries in Europe . There was this kid that hiked the entire length of Arizona , From the Utah border , to the Mexican border , It took him about a month , this was on well maintained trails , with pre arranged supply stops in some of Arizona’s small towns , and a change of shoes . Now think about how that same trip would be in SHTF conditions .

    #7583
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Toby C,
    As I see it from the other post the issue of where you are is not the critical issue. As was said “if your house is surrounded” does it matter where it is? Understanding the dynamics of the situation is crucial, a country in war will be much different than a “simple” failure of civility. In the case you mention other countries were not at war.

    If the armed forces were to be used against the populous in the USA and not as police, it will be a game changer. I don’t see it happening here that way. Mutiny on the Bounty comes to mind. As for running…well if the USA is in the throws of SHTF I wouldn’t be certain any other country is going to provide civilized protection. Remote areas maybe.

    This is the you don’t know what you don’t know moment. Everyone can see that there are so many potential pitfalls ready to push it over the edge, but which one and how will it unfold? Where you think it will be safe to go might be a crater, or the center of an ebola outbreak. Egad!! I’m packing for the Antarctic.

    #7586
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    “As was said “if your house is surrounded” does it matter where it is?” Exactly my point, you may have to run, my (informed) perspective is don’t discount how far that journey might be…

    #7596
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Selco doesnt explain where he was located and what side of the conflict he was in. That’s key to understanding his situation, what worked for him and why. If I want to learn about survival from someone that went through WWII in Germany, a Nazi soldier will have a pretty different perspective from that of a Jew. In the case of the Yugoslav Wars it’s the same thing because it was anethnic conflict. If he’s Chetnik his situation is VERY different from his Bosniak neighbor right next door, who by all accounts had a big chance of ending up executed in most brutal fashion. What we do know is that while in Sarajevo you lived sieged for three years without running water and sporadic electric power at best, with the UN not letting you leave the city and Serbs shelling and sniping you, if you were outside the sieged city you were likely to end up crucified, executed, in a concentration camp or a rape house. It was in the country and smaller towns where some of the worse massacres took place (Foča massacres, Srebrenica massacre, massacres in Zvornik and Cerska).

    I like FerFal simply because he is talking lot of common sense stuff that came from real experience.
    There is a reason why I do not explain where I was located and what side of the conflict I was in, many reasons actually.
    At the end I gonna end up discussing with some people about who is right and who is wrong. And I think there is much to be learn from anyone who gone trough some tough stuff in life.
    It is about survival, nothing else.

    #7602
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    100% agreed, I hope you don’t mind me sharing the post on here Selco, I just felt it was a good discussion point…

    #7610
    Profile photo of Danie Theron
    Danie Theron
    Survivalist
    member3

    Selco said….”There is a reason why I do not explain where I was located and what side of the conflict I was in, many reasons actually.
    At the end I gonna end up discussing with some people about who is right and who is wrong. And I think there is much to be learn from anyone who gone trough some tough stuff in life.
    It is about survival, nothing else”

    Wisdom

    #7612
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    OK Danie you quoted the much respected Selco…and your point is..?

    #7613
    Profile photo of Danie Theron
    Danie Theron
    Survivalist
    member3

    TobyC, that is a good point and one all of us should think about for sure.

    As for Ferfal, I feel he is a wise voice in the community and I have a lot of respect for his common sense. He is a pretty strong proponent for staying in urban areas. Others, also with experience prefer bugging out to the countryside. In the end, it is going to be different depending on the reality of your situation in your location. Many factors can make one option preferable over the other. For instance:
    financial collapse vs. war
    intensity of the war
    viability of sustainable resources outside urban areas
    accessability of a safe haven
    natural disaster
    nuclear war
    civil war
    war against a foreign nation
    location of family and support group
    ability of family and support to change locations or journey

    Those are just some of the considerations that make each situation unique. So, I will say whether you stay in an urban area or in the countryside depends on your location, what type of situation is happening, and the co-factors. There are circumstances where staying in the urban area might be the best choice in an area but in the exact same area, a different set of events and circumstances might make bugging out the wise choice.

    So, in the end, bugging out vs. staying put is really dependent on the circumstances and a host of other co-factors.

    #7614
    Profile photo of Danie Theron
    Danie Theron
    Survivalist
    member3

    Toby C, do you see underneath the quote where I said “wisdom”? That was a short way of saying that I agree and it is wise to protect people from themselves by withholding what side of the conflict he was on. It keeps the conversation focused where it should be instead of letting people get off topic in a side debate.

    That is the point I was making when I used that word….wisdom.

    #7618
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    Glad you agree with my premise

    “Indeed, there can well be circumstance that the regional situation (read entire country or area) means the situation is so bad you will keep on going from border to border until you are out of the impacted area….

    As your comprehensive list highlights there are many influences. In line with the ‘uniqueness’ of each situation, how far and how fast you run is an unknown, but something that should be factored into all comprehensive preperation plans

    #7620
    Profile photo of Danie Theron
    Danie Theron
    Survivalist
    member3

    Toby C, yes I agree absolutely. Thanks for stressing the importance of this. Most people probably do not think about it – but you are right that they should.

    #7621
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    Danie, IMHO so long as you avoid politics, ethnicity, skin colour and religion you eliminate ALL side debate…

    Encapsulate it in one word ‘wisdom’ is genius :)

    Thank you!

    #7672
    Toby C
    Toby C
    Survivalist
    member6

    “There is a reason why I do not explain”

    And that is a sad but understandable truth. Many people with the greatest knowledge and experience either will not talk about it, or do not want details disclosed outside of their trusted ‘inner circles’. I am privileged to be surrounded by excellent, knowledgeable friends but am painfully aware most of that knowledge will never get passed on… That is also why I am so grateful for a forum such as this one!

    #7682
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Of course Toby, feel free to share here anything that can contribute to our goals, that is the whole point of this forum.
    I just needed to explain some things.
    Thanks for sharing this info.

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