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  • #42616
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Pardon me for piling on, but this article is related, and the caption on the lead photo is priceless!

    Army Chief of Staff Gen. Odierno doesn’t want our soldiers to be “over-armed”

    Check out the smiling face of General Oh-Dear-No! I can imagine what the re-indoctrination camp will be like.

    hat tip: Survivalblog.com

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #42619
    Profile photo of Proteus 55
    Proteus 55
    Survivalist
    rprepper

    L Tecolote,
    I’m troubled by this as more and more persons in various sites seem to agree that Liberty is imperiled in America; but how could it be that so much could have been subverted or undermined without major protesting from the people? I mean, ok maybe there’s a lot of people who don’t give a damn about anything anymore, but surely there are others who care enough as to point it out – and here I mean, people in authority,educators, certain politicians and maybe priests, law enforcers or in the Armed Forces. Surely it can’t be as deep and pervading that they would be afraid to speak out, right? Or are the conspiracy theorists right and there is a major problem that could even threaten democracy? If the wrong-doers and the corrupt are relatively few, then all it takes is some bold people to put pressure and the public opinion behind them, and they get exposed. However, if the majority of all the political power in a country is corrupted and there’s only a minority that protests, then it’s a huge problem to resolve without major upheavals with potentially dramatic effects. I have seen this case here in Greece. The vast majority of the politicians are corrupt and they seem to have in their pocket the unions, barristers and judges, some high ranking officials in the police and in the army, and so on. Who’s going to expose them? Their fellows are equally corrupt and they run risk of being exposed themselves in retaliation. These guys even pay groups of trouble-makers to stir trouble in otherwise peaceful protests… this has been done by all parties in Greece for over 30 years. As for the few that protest against such a mess, they get ignored; if they cause trouble, they get slandered or smeared, and if they push it too far, their careers are ruined and their reputation goes down the drain. And in some cases, worse things happen to them.

    It seems to me that their target is to make the general public more vulnerable and easy to control through fear and lack of arms or survival training. I believe I read somewhere that survivalists could be labelled as extremists! In Greece, some people already view them as such. The media make big issue everything to do with creating greater impression through fear, and of course, the laws in Greece about weapons are extremely stringent and it would be difficult to get firearms and being able to use them for self-defence without breaking the law or else in extremely few cases would it be allowed. Some of the laws don’t even make sense to many people: a burglar bearing a crowbar or something similar entered a house but the owner who was sleeping there managed to scare him off; the burglar didn’t leave but suffered a heart attack while trespassing due to the stress (!) and later proceeded in suing the owner (!!!). The burglar wasn’t sent to prison either… Not only guns are almost a no-no in self defence, but tazers are not allowed; not even pepper sprays! I suppose if someone was trained enough to be able to use everyday tools to defend himself and was calm enough to do so during an attack, perhaps he could get a chance to escape BUT if he escaped unscathed while injuring the attacker, he would still be in trouble for doing so and would have to be taken into custody (if he was outdoors during the attack, he would be questioned as to why he was carrying such tools / items that he used to defend himself with). Aside from dealing with criminals, the average person would be completely helpless if the state turned totalitarian and a dictatorship was established. So I believe that countries like the United States that still have the freedom to have at least some legal ways to defend with guns should do the utmost in their power to preserve those rights, as stated in the Constitution. These rights are there for a reason; perhaps the Founding Fathers foresaw trouble in the future and wanted to safeguard the people against a dictatorial regime. But in any case, time to end this long post with a quote:
    “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery” Thomas Jefferson, January 30, 1787

    #42620
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    I always wondered how much more bloody and costly it would have been for Hitler , if all of Europe’s civilian population would have been armed .

    #42622
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Proteus, when I was 12 or 13, as best I can recall now, I was given my grandfather’s old wooden case, tube-type shortwave radio. I quickly learned enough about antennas to fashion a significant one outdoors, complete with lightning arrester, and ran it down through a basement window where I had placed the radio in a corner of a finished portion of that basement. There I spent many hours listening to international stations, ham operators, etc. Eventually, I discovered the English language service of Radio Moscow. I was fascinated, and hooked! Not because I bought into what I was hearing, but because of the absurd descriptions I was hearing about what life was like in the country in which I lived (the U.S.). I listened frequently and for long periods, fascinated at how their radio personalities sounded so much like Americans, not Russians. But what was so very amazing to me after a while, was the fact that the people in the USSR weren’t rising up in rebellion against their own lying dictators. Without yet knowing what the word really meant, I was already learning the concept of propaganda. It spurred a life-long interest in international politics, among other things.

    Then when the Soviet Union allegedly broke up, I was further fascinated by the fact that so many in those newly “freed” nations were willing to continue voting for communist candidates. Initially, that made no sense to me. I was still quite naive, despite slightly more than a full four decades of life behind me. I “knew,” yet I hadn’t put it all together yet. But it the learning curve ramped up rapidly around that time, because I still had kids at home, and I was becoming more and more shocked at what they were (and particularly were NOT) learning in school. Remember, the internet was in its infancy then, and forerunners of search engines such as LexisNexis just weren’t available to the common man, so much information was able to be effectively hidden from public view until the 1990s. By then the damage had been done.

    The concepts of liberty, the fundamental reasons for the inclusion of each element of the Constitution, etc., were all being slowly but systematically stripped out of the American education system. If it wasn’t taught at home, kids grew up only spouting off the words, but having no clue about the concepts. Now days, I’m willing to bet that not one in several hundred Americans (probably even a wider spread than that actually) are even aware that U.S. senators haven’t always been elected by the people of each state. Worse, they have no idea how those senators WERE originally selected to office. And even worse than that, the vast majority of them could still not – even when presented with those two facts – formulate the reason WHY senators were originally appointed by their respective state legislators.

    There is no systematic teaching about the Bill of Rights, and what each means, and now days it would be virtually impossible anyway, since the origins of those 10 amendments would be in absurdly sharp contrast to how the amendments are interpreted today. The 10th Amendment in particular, and now in possibly a close 2nd place the 4th Amendment, are so warped as to be meaningless today. And our news media simply doesn’t do anything except spout meaningless phrases and stories about how “constitutional rights” apply in various circumstances, to the point where people have become numb at least in part because they can’t possibly understand. They can’t understand because (circling back now) they were never taught that those things were truly important to know by individual citizens, let alone why they’re important. We’ve been fed a load of moral relativism and socialist doctrine now for enough generations that how it is today, is simply “the way it is,” which is “normal.” It’s much like a girl that is brought up in an abusive household who then marries an abusive husband, and society can’t understand why she bails him out of jail and doesn’t want to press charges against him after he’s put here in the the hospital with multiple facial fractures and a ruptured spleen. She says she still loves him, and she makes excuses for him.

    It’s called programming, propaganda, multi-generational shaping, and a whole lot of things. But it all goes back 167 years to the final chapter – a mere 3/4 of one page – of the Communist Manifesto, and particularly its very last sentences:

    In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things. In all these movements, they bring to the front, as the leading question in each, the property question, no matter what its degree of development at the time.
    Finally, they labour everywhere for the union and agreement of the democratic parties of all countries.
    The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.

    Note the obvious – over the past 50+ years (especially beginning in the 60s) “the social and political order of things” have been systematically corrupted. A half century is enough to raise 2+ generations to adulthood. It doesn’t matter whether the “communist” label is attached to that philosophy or not. Labels are just words. And that particular label has become one that has no meaning to anyone much younger than maybe 55 years of age in the United States. Almost no one remembers the deep fear that we’d be waking up to atomic bombs coming at us from the Soviet Union if Khrushchev hadn’t blinked first during the Cuban missile crisis. Almost no one today remembers the absolute certainty in his voice when he pounded his show at the U.N., or separately declared, “We will bury you!” And Mao and his little Red Book have no meaning to anyone but a few of us “old guys” now. So we can’t talk about communist philosophy – yet the outline contained in those final few sentences of that 167 year old book continues to roll on, very much alive and functioning.

    In other words, we have become what the inhabitants of the former USSR states became – willing to vote for people that were further subjugating them. I couldn’t understand when I was a young budding teenager how thinking adults could become so insanely stupid. And then I grew up.

    Just days before the 2012 election in the U.S., a man whose writings I enjoy reading was being interviewed on a talk radio program that I normally would not listen to. But I just happened to turn on the radio while I was driving somewhere that night, and the station that came on was playing that particular program. I started to reach for the radio to find another program when the host said that after they break, he would bring on Dr. Thomas Sowell. I kept the station where it was! Sowell was asked point blank whether he believed the United States could survive as a constitutional republic if Obama was elected to a 2nd term. He paused briefly before answering, and then resolutely stated, simply, “No.” I was stunned at the directness of his statement, which he then went on to merely justify, not water down or modify in any way. For a man of his intellect and stature to be that direct, seemed to solidify all of my own fears that we’ve been conditioned to label as “fanaticism” and “right-wing craziness,” etc. And Sowell was a Marxist in his 20s (he’s now well into his 80s, and long past Marxism) – he knows what he’s talking about.

    As L Tecolote eloquently explained it earlier, we’ve moved beyond being a constitutional government. Oh, it’s still called that, and the Supreme Court still claims to be weighing laws against that original document, and the news media still talks as if we really are governed by constitutional principles, so almost everyone believes it. But then the believe the official government unemployment figures, too, despite overwhelming evidence that the economy is NOT in robust recovery, that inflation is far above near-0%, and that almost everyone that wants a job can get one, yada yada. One quick trip to shadowstats.com COULD dispel all that in minutes, but no one cares (at least not enough to make any difference).

    So to close, I’d say “that Liberty is [NOT] imperiled in America.” That already happened over the years, to an increasing extent each year. No, Liberty is indeed dead, and the body is merely being kept on artificial life support so that no one understands it’s dead. The chest rises and falls, the blood flows, the heart beats, so it MUST be alive…. And we end up with these weird situations whereby people are arrested for withdrawing over $10,000 from the bank and transporting it in their vehicles to pay cash for a used car; have their assets confiscated for NO legal violation and then have to pay huge legal fees to go to court and HOPE they can recover even some of their assets when they’re never charged with anything; have wheat that they’ve grown on their own property destroyed despite the fact that it was grown for personal family use, not for sale; lose their jobs and make national headlines for saying a word that only SOUNDS like a politically incorrect word because TPTB (and the press) are too stupid to understand the difference between “niggardly” and a racial slur. And the list goes on. Cognitive dissonance – an intensely powerful principle of human thinking and behavior – kicks in and minimizes such events because, after all, we’re the land of the free and the home of the brave, and we’re protected by our Constitution, don’tchaknow.

    That’s how it’s been done.

    #42624
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    P.S. Speaking of the election of senators, there were three seminal events that all occurred 102 years ago. Much damage had already been done at the time of the U.S. War of Northern Aggression (a.k.a. Civil War) by President Lincoln (of course that simply is not taught in schools). But in 1913 we got the triple-whammy of (1) the direct election of senators (17th Amendment), (2) the federal income tax (16th Amendment), and (3) the creation of the Federal Reserve. Few recognize just what a blow those were collectively to the constitutional republic presented to us by the Founders (if we could keep it, as Benjamin Franklin said).

    #42625
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Proteus,
    “[H]ow could it be that so much could have been subverted or undermined without major protesting from the people?”

    In at least three ways:

      (1) The majority of the people have been gradually, but increasingly, mis-educated, over at least the last century. The founders, and the people of the nation, generally, at the time of the Revolution, were mostly taught to read at home — the Bible, as well as many of the classics. There was no strict orthodoxy, imposed by the government, and people studied to improve their knowledge, so as to make themselves capable of earning their living as independent tradesmen and merchants. Most people of the time did not plan to become someone else’s employee. But the Public Fool System was introduced by the big-money interests, specifically, and deliberately to train them to be useful, yet incapable of being independent. (See: The Underground History of American Education

      (2) As with the schools, the public welfare system (so-called) and income taxation were introduced and spread gradually. Had they been proposed in any way but as “solutions” to (governmentally caused) calamities, or suddenly imposed wholesale in their current, “advanced,” forms, they might have been rejected, just as presidential (unconstitutional) “declarations” of war might have been rejected by the founding generation. But a majority of the populace, who have been taught, by both doctrine and example, that the government never lacks for authority to do whatever it wishes, just sigh, accept each incremental burden, pay the increased tax, and grumble on, like the harnessed beasts they have become.

      (3) Americans of different racial/ethnic/social backgrounds may never have been completely united in cause, but before, and in, the days of my youth, most of them agreed on Biblical principles of conduct — at least enough that they outlawed chattel slavery, then Jim Crow laws, then enforced racial segregation. Primarily by various turns of law, and professional agitation they have been taught to see anyone different as a threat. We are constantly encouraged, by politicians, free-lance agitators, the “news,” entertainment, and “education,” to be at each other’s throats, along racial, social, ethnic, economic, and age lines (did I leave anyone out? Ah yes, gender, all 57 of ‘em.) People who cannot address each other without screaming won’t come to each others’ defense. (See: Martin Niemoller’s sad poem

    The mere fact that, since before the Revolution, Americans have been armed, has, until the present psychologically emasculated generation, kept the government, and its financial master/partners, from much mischief that they have indicated they would have liked to impose. But it isn’t weapons that make a defense, half so much as the skill, and willingness to use them. In these trans-gendered times, it’s no longer certain that the boys would (or that the girls could) muster the will (and the underground support) that it would take, to prevent the final triumph of the Police state. I’d like to think they still would, but I’m no longer sure.

    Is there a conspiracy*? Well, yes, but most of the participants probably prefer to think of it as a Grand Plan, to run the world in a better way, with themselves at the top of the ladder, and enough rungs missing, between their perch, and the rest of us, that they won’t need to listen to the noise we make as we are trampled by their troops, because, with all the fine, new technology they’ll have at their disposal, they certainly won’t need all us “useless eaters,” except for the occasional transplantable heart, lung, or kidney.

    * “We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. … It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”

    “For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” — David Rockefeller

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #42629
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    GeorgiaSaint, to add to your comments, the majority of people could not tell you the names of their two Senators and their Congressman, let alone much of anything about their voting records.

    #42630
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    [T]he majority of people could not tell you the names of their two Senators and their Congressman, let alone much of anything about their voting records.

    To be honest, I have to think a moment to remember who recently replaced one of my own two senators, or even which one of them was replaced and who’s left. I used to know their voting records quite well. After a while, it became a matter of, “What’s the use?” I could spend my time violating line one of the Serenity Prayer, thereby making myself crazy, or I could spend my time on lines two and three of that same under-used and under-appreciated piece of wisdom. For those that don’t know it

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    The courage to change the things I can,
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    So proportional to the extent I became aware of what L Tecolote quite well explained about the remaining outer shell of the constitutional republic, I also stopped wasting my time filling my aging brain with information that is of no consequence to me in the long run, such as how my senator or congressman vote (I learned enough about their records long ago, and decided that practice-vomiting is both uncomfortable and not good for one’s health). Oh, the end results certainly are important, but I have not the individual power to influence them, and even if a ground swell rose up to try do so, they will still vote with those that fund them – not those they were voted in to represent. Even if they’re replaced, the news media will keep the illusion going by reporting on how “the people” rose up to replace so-and-so. But then comes the nominating process and finally the absurdly financed “campaigns,” and the replacement for the “offender” is rarely any different. In other words, nothing really changes – just the names. The few possible exceptions are either corrupted into falling in line, voted out because they’re not in line, or kept out of any committee assignment or other leadership position so as to have no meaningful influence beyond a single vote among 100 or 435. Such odds aren’t even worth looking at, so what difference does the name make?

    Make no mistake, though. I have not given up, nor obviously have the members here (or a few other pockets of enlightenment). As I said above with respect to lines two and three of the Serenity Prayer, and as L Tecolote said:

    For the moment, all you can get is momentary bites of Freedom, to the extent that (a) the authorities are currently looking elsewhere, (b) you are prepared to act, and (c) you are bold enough tho seize the opportunity.

    Adherence to line one of the Serenity Prayer allows the the adherent to remain sane, as opposed to beating his or her head bloody as (s)he repeatedly bashes it against an impenetrable wall. Adherence to line two allows one to maintain self respect, have purpose in life, and improve circumstances for self and family in those circumstances over which control is still possible. And in line three is the key: having the wisdom to remain as constantly cognizant of the difference between the first two lines as possible, in one’s daily life. Thus my reason for not reminding myself who’s “representing” me in Washington or Atlanta is not the same as most people. I recognize that it no longer matters much because of “line one,” as opposed to the majority who have no clue why it should have mattered to them a long time ago – when it still mattered.

    #42636
    Profile photo of Proteus 55
    Proteus 55
    Survivalist
    rprepper

    L Tecolote and GeorgiaSaint, thank you for the comprehensive replies that definitely clarified the subject. I had to re-read them a few times, simply because they answered so much about the wrongs that are going on for more years than I previously thought; the in-depth analysis was brilliant. They helped me a lot to understand the deeper issues underlying the whole issue. Definitely food for thought…

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