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<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>MountainBiker wrote:</div>I hadn’t paid any attention to this thread being I don’t live in or near any urban areas but seeing so much traffic here these past couple days I figured I would stop by. As with everything else in life the answer to the main premise of the thread is “it depends”. Certainly survival is possible in the city under heavy handed govt. control if we descend further into a police state or if we end up with a civil war that still has a reasonably functioning govt. The govt will find a way to keep food flowing into the cities and the lights on, for the most part. There would be disruptions on both fronts for sure but you could survive it. Where survival is not possible for most urban dwellers is if the SHTF scenario is something different such as a cyberwar or other actions that bring down the grid. Chaos will ensue quickly in urban settings if the grid is down. In addition to food and water issues, there is the matter of fires. Riots almost always include fires and in a grid down scenario those fires are going to rage unchecked until they burn out on their own. Those that survive the riots and fires will then have to contend with the diseases that will spread from lack of working sewers and people drinking contaminated water, and there won’t be a functioning medical system to treat them. The cities would be unlivable very quickly. A good chunk of urban dwellers will quickly realize that they do not have shoes fit for walking long distances, and in cold climates real winter clothing. The boots, coats, and gloves most urban folks have are designed for appearance and relatively short ventures outdoors, not being outside 24/7 walking to a safer destination. Don’t believe me? Spend a day outdoors when the temps are in the single digits and see how long it is before your fingers and toes are going numb despite your wearing gloves and boots that look like they should keep you warm.

Under the police state scenario I don’t buy into people being forced out of rural areas into the cities. I just don’t see it happening. Too much effort relative to the return, especially when rural areas are rapidly aging due to the young educated/skilled folks heading to urban/suburban areas for career opportunities.

I plan to stay where I am no matter what. I don’t have anywhere else to go. If the grid goes down I will still have functioning toilets being I’m on septic and can keep the toilets filled with water from my pond, limitless clean water for drinking/cooking/canning from the handpump on my well that doesn’t need to be filtered, and the ability to grow and preserve food on my property.

MountainBiker, you have written quite a few true things. Yet, there is one truth that will complete the panorama. The expulsion from the land is already taking place. The authorities use different means. In Montana, North Dakota, Arkansas and I forget which other, fracking has poured petroleum, or natural gas, directly into the water that people and animals drink. You can actually open the faucet and light the “water” that comes out. And the water can come out brown and be toxic for the cattle. So ranch after ranch has to be shut down. The cost of trucking water in is prohibitive.

I know a woman whose land the BLM wants. They are ratcheting up the pressure on her to sell to them. They WILL get it. She is the victim of insistent harassment and increasing bureaucratic tangles.

As for a certain man, they tried to scare him. At night, he would hear a noise, look at a window, and there would be a face leering at him (soldier from nearby base, most likely). As he didn’t panic, they gave him a bum rap, and now he’s in prison and his land has been expropriated.

Felonies such as these are taking place all over the western two-thirds of this country. And there are more and more of them.

As to urban survival, I urge everyone to install a backflow valve on his main house drain. If electricity comes to a halt, so will the sewage pumps and, after not too long, sewage will back up. I’ve seen it happen. In luxury homes, the stuff overflowed onto the wall-to-wall carpeting and out the front door.

You’re right about fires. As soon as novices start using oil lamps, there will be fires everywhere. And beware of those who try to escape to the wilderness. Mel Tappan, back in the 70’s, saw clearly that they would build huge bonfires that would easily spread.

Other than natural disasters in specific areas, the likely scenario is what is already taking place. People unemployed, or employed at an unlivable wage, will assault their neighbors. Their victims will beg for police. Then the authorities will clamp down hard and make the tyranny evident. End of story.

That’s when you have to engineer your own personal oasis within the order that is evident. I recommend the movie “The Good Soldier Svejk”. Also “Farenheit 451″. Draw inspiration and conclusions.

Both movies are on YouTube.

Good luck on your homestead.