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  • #14470
    elijah
    elijah
    Prepper
    member6

    I wrote this as a reply for the “Psychopaths in SHTF” thread, but what I have to say would drive that thread very far off topic if anyone were to reply to it. So I’m posting this as a separate thread here in the Religions board. I would rather not; I don’t imagine people will agree with me, but I feel compelled to post this. What I’m presenting is a point of view that is seldom expressed, even though many are bewildered as to how our social structure appears to be worsening with each generation. In one sense this may give some people something from the perspective they haven’t considered before. I have seen many times a knee-jerk reaction of rejection because this is not a comfortable point of view and doesn’t fit in with preconceived ideas, but I do believe it is correct, and therefore should be presented. Note that I will be speaking in broad generalizations, and this doesn’t apply to every individual.

    Without a root basis for the reason why we should be creatures with moral values with a capacity for compassion and mercy, we will inevitably turn out some children which do not have a moral compass, nor have the ability to feel compassion.That Root Basis is something that has been carefully driven away from our western way of life to a significant degree.

    We (in the West, at least) have a system that programs children and adults to want things selfishly, to believe either they are a meaningless accident of existence in a universe of random processes, or that they are gods themselves and the center of the universe. This combination can produce despair and depression in the first, and narcissism in the second, and high levels of rebellion in all. People are also manipulated to be angry at God, even if they don’t believe in him or that he exists, for all the pain and suffering there is (which is a whole extra subject for a different discussion).

    For some people their pride is enticed by being told that there is no higher God than themselves to whom they are accountable, and are free to do as they choose, (often with a caveat that they shouldn’t do ‘harm’ to another); but the doctrine is entirely subjective and dependent on the individual’s choices and has no objective standing. With programming like this going on then we are gaining a population of many more dysfunctional adults than in the days when there was a common belief that everyone was a special creation and important in the sight of God, to whom everyone was accountable.

    In other words, having eliminated the biblical God from popular culture and the judicial/political system, and having substituted a man-made god in popular culture, we have eliminated any reason to hold the values that derive from God.

    If we are nothing more than evolved pond scum and are a cosmic accident with no reason to exist, if there is no God whom we are made like and to whom we are accountable, if there is no such thing as sin, if there is no act of rebellion against God, no rejection of his mercy and his authority over us, all because he doesn’t exist, if all of history is millions of years death and pain and struggle, then we will have a culture filled with people who, at best, have a relativistic morality that can change according to what they think is right for the moment and cannot be a standard for all, if they have any moral compass at all.

    This is the society we have been building for ourselves against the opposition of wise people who could see what the end result would be, with the agenda-driven propaganda of humanistic evolution given expression in every way possible; through schools, television, movies, the press, and literature, supposedly in the names of Honesty, Science and Neutrality, and against “Superstition”.

    This is why evil people mysteriously sometimes come out of good homes: the parents are not the only, or even primary, influence on children today. Parents typically have only a few minutes per day of character-building time with their children, if even that much; while the schools and the television have hours of time every day to manipulate children.

    If character hasn’t been properly developed in early childhood then the child is likely to rebel in the teen years and question and reject their parents values. Many parents will be familiar with this scenario: “Don’t do that.” “Why?” “Because it’s wrong.” “Why is it wrong?” “Because I said so.” “Why do you say so?” “Because it’s wrong.” Around and around it goes, with no anchor on which to attach what the parent knows is wrong, but the child can’t see the point. If the parent knew to say, “Because we are all created in the image of God to be like him, and he is holy, and when we want to disobey him we sin, and we are accountable to him for all we choose to do; that is why it’s wrong,” then at least the child would have an answer that is based on a firm foundation and is more than “Because I say so!”

    There are those who know exactly the significance of what they promote and fully support the deception, but the majority of those who promote this anti-bible dogma are unaware of what is driving the program, being deceived themselves and programmed to think derisively of those who don’t agree. Few of those who reject the Bible and creation are aware of the actual details of that they reject.

    They are enticed to believe that anyone who believes in a literal creation without evolution, or an almighty, personal God to whom we are all accountable, is a fool. This is so even within most churches, which have long since abandoned being solid on the Bible and have embraced religiously-liberal and apostate doctrines in order to “be relevant” to society (that is code for enticing unbelievers, and their money, into the churches and not causing them to feel uncomfortable through honest Bible teaching). There, in fact, are not many truly solid Bible-believing churches around now, nor many truly Bible-believing Christians; one has to search hard to find such.

    So I contend that we have created a societal/educational/cultural paradigm that is producing sociopathic and narcissistic people from childhood in large quantities; mostly they don’t stand out much because they learn cunning in trying to appear “normal”, and as long as things are comfortable they only victimize those immediately around them. In a crisis they will emerge unleashed, figuring that the fear of penalty that has held them back no longer applies.

    So if I am right, what can be done? The regrettable answer is that not much can be done, short of a mass revival of changed people. Changed people will have a moral code based on the authority of God to determine morality. They in turn will raise their children to both believe God and seek to obey him.

    While this would turn the world around, at least for a generation, I don’t see any other effective solution to the path that is being actively pursued, and pursued with great cunning so that most are blind to how they are being manipulated.

    Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
    Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!

    #14481
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Elijah,
    I think everything you have laid out is contributing to the problem of psychopaths. However at the most basic level I believe it is in the gene pool and has been with us forever. It is explained in Genesis 4 the story of Cain & Able.

    Cain couldn’t control himself.
    “for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. 6 The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted?[b] And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for[c] you, but you must rule over it.” “8 Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him”

    Then God cursed him. “11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength.” (makes me wonder if this is why there will always be rich people and poor people)

    Cain passes on his genes. “17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch”
    “25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and called his name Seth”

    So no matter how will think about psychopaths now, it is recorded as a problem from the very beginning of man’s existence. Good and evil (normal & psychopaths).

    #14520
    wildartist
    wildartist
    Survivalist
    member7

    Oh I think Cain could choose.  It’s not that he “couldn’t control himself”–he chose to kill his brother in a fit of angry jealousy.

    It’s a fallacy to say that the evil that men do is because they ‘can’t help it’ or “the devil made them do it” or “their poor brains are just wired that way.”  Life is a choice–to live according to God’s commands, or according to our own selfish desires (and essentially, Satan’s).

    One problem with today’s society is that the “blame” for evil and violence keeps getting transferred to someone or something else.  “Mental illness”, a hard childhood, poverty, ADHD, you name it.  Anything but responsibility demanded from the perpetrator.

    I had a terrible childhood full of abuse and poverty, but I have never killed anyone…I choose to follow God.

    #14521
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Pretty simple ,

    #1. kids having kids .

    #2. both parents have to work

    #3. 24/7 PC propaganda on every level of life .

    #4. no punishment for misbehavior .

    #5. no value for god in popular society

    #6 . liberal left wing entitlement theory …………….its never your fault , it has to be something else , your never to blame .

    #7. Over permissive society ( goes back to #3 ) , acceptance of bad behavior , unwed pregnancy , homosexuals , criminals are idolized .

    #8. The lowering of expected and societal standards and ambiguous gender roles .

    And that is why I have given up on our people for now , and why I am Arming and stocking up on battle gear , and why I hang out with Russians now ( kinda have to , my girl is one ;)

    #14523
    wildartist
    wildartist
    Survivalist
    member7

    When the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?

    #14525
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Wild,

    Everthing is a choice, and it is a lot easier to make the right choices with a brain that works properly. Psychopathic personalities are not mearly learned behaviors.  Lots of people fit into the catagories of behavoirs and personality disorders you suggest, but psychopaths don’t fit that mold.

    #14526
    wildartist
    wildartist
    Survivalist
    member7

    So you are saying that God cannot hold them accountable on the day of judgment since they “can’t help it”?  This is saying God is not just, and I know He is…

    #14533
    Profile photo of Novus Ordo
    Novus Ordo
    Hunter
    rprepper

    Elijah – Amen brother!  I think you need to look a little further for some different Christians; there may be more than you think.  At least there are in my area – but mixed in with some of the other type which are mostly the younger generation that us older generation are trying to teach.  What can be done?  A lot – first, ensure your own family is taught.  Second, teach them to influence others through calm level-headed discussions.  Third, don’t give up – that’s what the great liar wants.  Even if it seems that your planted seeds may not be sprouting – just keep on and pray for guidance.

    Tolik – no need to give up on anyone.  Why do you think we’re all here?  American or Russian or whatever – all humans gravitate toward freedom and away from serfdom.  There are people out there looking for answers and advice that you can provide.

    WildArtist – Foundations aren’t usually destroyed; they are what’s left when the building is destroyed.  And they last for centuries…that foundation still exists amongst us and for those who have never had a foundation built there are many of us bricklayers out there to build from scratch or rebuild if they are willing to unharden their hearts.

    Hang in there my friends – K

     

     

    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
    - Thomas Paine

    #14537
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    I think we are starting to split hairs here. One of the early statements Elijah made is that he was making a blanket statement. There are those that truely have a mental disconnection that makes them a psychopath and there are multiple causes but a majority of the people “diagnosed” as psychopaths are not. They are people who have not been held accountable for their actions. I am an example, not as a psychopath lol but I am a poster child for ADHD. Short attention span, hyper, very active. When I was a child I never took medication, unless my mom using a belt counts. She identified my triggers. Most of them were food related. Sugar of course played a part as well as caffeine and food coloring and whether I had eaten any solid food recently. Give me a coke or anything with red food coloring on an empty stomach and you had instant rocket. I would literally bounce off the walls but instead of saying no you can’t have that anymore she would say”you know how this will make you act. If you will not control yourself you cannot have it.” It took a little while and a few spankings but I finally got the concept. Sometimes I still have to really focus to stay on track but I can do it.

    Had my mom not held me responsible I would have never learned. I heard a pastor say something about terrible 2’s one time. He said” That 2 yr old driving you crazy and being bad is not demon possessed. They have reached a point thatthey understand right and wrong and desperately want you to teach them where that boundry is.” If we don’t teach them with responsibility and consistency they get confused on the boundry and keep acting out until the boundry is established. When reality is denied they turn into labled psychopaths as adults but really are still just looking for their boundry. God’s moral foundation is the solution. And there is my 2 cents

    #14563
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Thanks for the posts Elijah.
    Child when is born is “blank sheet of paper”, parents write on that paper and decide what is gonna be there, but society around kid too. Parents and society around us are different world then we had some time ago, it is simply much faster, and turned to itself.

    I completely agree that man somehow become God in today modern consumer life and true values are kinda inverted.
    Without going into the religious discussion I agree too that some morale code must be restored, with reasoning that we are here with some cause.

    But I think most important words in posts are:

    So if I am right, what can be done? The regrettable answer is that not much can be done, short of a mass revival of changed people.

    I think nothing can be done without huge changes that gonna maybe came after big collapse. We are simply too far and too deep in all this strange new world.

    #14568
    Jay
    Jay
    Survivalist
    member3

    In other words, having eliminated the biblical God from popular culture and the judicial/political system, and having substituted a man-made god in popular culture, we have eliminated any reason to hold the values that derive from God.

    I would like to invite all of you to check out the post about mass manipulation I made a few days ago and how our values were changed step by step for the benefit of those in power and corporations.

    Compassion and kindness has been replaced by greed and selfishness. The new god is the ego and you can buy part of the good life in an Apple store which serve as cathedrals to worship consumption. I absolutely believe we are in the middle of an ongoing spiritual collapse and once all values are gone the physical side will follow. This is already happening now.

    Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")

    #14572
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Wild,

    I think you are interpreting my first post differently then my intent. My point is 3300 years ago or more there was problem with psychopathic behavior. It is an inherent problem throughout all of history. I’m not giving anyone a free pass. God cused Cain but let him live and made sure no one else killed him.

    I don’t believe mentally ill people can cure themseves by deciding not to be ill. Just like a cancer patient cannot cure themsevles by deciding not to have cancer.  Cancer patients try that everyday. That is not part of “free will”

     

     

    #14849
    Profile photo of WhiteKnight
    WhiteKnight
    Survivalist
    rprepper

    I agree with most everything discussed in this section. Without God, what reason does man have not to lie, steal, cheat, and murder? I know that I personally am capable of being quite sneaky and manipulative. I could totally get away with several types of theft, without any physical consequence.

    What keeps me in line is God and his laws. A basic moral code is essential to society… without it… well, see Selco for details on what things will look like. :(

    #16521
    Profile photo of fschmidt
    fschmidt
    Survivalist
    member1

    Religion is necessary but not sufficient for morality. So I agree with the poster that loss of morality was partly caused by loss of religion. But Christianity itself changed from a good religion to a bad religion in the 1800s in America, so that was another problem.

    I stumbled on this thread in a google search. I am not a physical survivalist, but I am cultural survivalist in a sense and I believe that good religion is the key to cultural survival. Of course it doesn’t hurt physical survival if you are part of a religious community where people can trust each other.

    #16533
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Fschmidt,
    Welcome to the forum. Perhaps you could expound on the changes in Christianity you mention in a new thread?

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