Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 89 total)
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  • #34401
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    What I have in mind here is a slightly different twist on the “what to do” discussion. I’m not talking about normal times when we generally keep chipping away at our preparedness efforts, nor am I talking about the grid suddenly goes down and the immediate actions we start to take. I’m talking about the in-between time when SHTF hasn’t actually happened yet, but it appears to be imminent and is starting to unfold in a way that we here can see it but the masses are still thinking it’ll all blow over. All of us here already know the quick generic answers of “do a last preps run” or “head to the BOL” but what I was hoping for was some discussion with a bit more specificity. It might give others of us here good ideas.

    I’ll start with one example that occurs to me while we’re in the sub-zero deep freeze. I’d stop heating with wood (front half of house) and propane (back half of house) and turn on the heat pumps. Who cares if I run up the electric bill that might never come post-SHTF. I’d be preserving my wood supply and propane in anticipation of the grid going down, effectively saving supplies that might not be so easy to replace in the near future.

    #34407
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    If we’re talking about racking up bills that we may never have to pay, dig out the credit cards and:

    Fill the propane tanks completely.
    Go pick up a bunch of ‘jerry cans’, stabilizer and fill ‘em up with gas.
    Jugs of kerosene/fuel oil/liquid paraffin
    Extra chainsaw bars, bar oil, chains, etc.
    More bottled/gallon jugs of water, no point having to filter or boil it if we don’t have to, added effort and expense.
    Socks and underwear. Lots of socks and underwear. May not be able to wash ‘em for a while, better to change em than wear nasty ones. Get some nice stuff for the ladies, they will appreciate it.
    Flats of canned stew/chili/ravioli, etc. Ya it tastes like &$%* but you can live off it.
    New mud/snow tires and oil change(s) for all vehicles.
    Go buy every round of ammo I could.
    Gun shopping, lots of gun shopping. (New defensive pistols/carbines for the wife/kids)
    Travel trailer perhaps, if there is time. (Looking at one this weekend)
    That water pump/brakes in the Chevy/Ford that may need to be replaced, get ‘er done regardless.
    A “last” range trip to verify sighting on all firearms, well worth the ammo expended.
    Anything at the Pawn Shop that I need? Tools, generator, etc.
    Hit the vitamin/supplement store for fresh additives/vitamins.
    Hit the ‘brewing’ store for more beer and wine ingredients. That reminds me…..
    Hit the liquor store for more cheap vodka/bourbon/rum.

    Ya most of them involve shopping but not all items are what your rank and file sheeple will be grabbing, or at the same places.

    How about a “last” phone call to various family members, have the kids talk to Grandma and Grandpa again just in case.
    How about a reminder phone call to the other ‘members’ of the group/family about having things ready.

    #34410
    Profile photo of c
    c
    Newbie
    member7

    But you would be “stealing” from your fellow man… :(

    Or you could be wrong about the end of the world as we know it, and bankrupt yourself buying stuff your don’t really need when everything goes back to normal and the bills finally do come in.

    Readiness has more to do with what is going on between your ears then how massive your stockpile of resources. We can only be so ready for the unknown and the unknowable.

    Finding some way to find peace and tranquility NOW will go a long way with dealing with an unknowable future. Making friends with our subconscious mind is a good start in finding peace within ourselves. When we trust ourselves, we know deep down that is doesn’t matter what the future brings — we will know what to do.

    #34413
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I’ve contemplated similar activities as Whirly. I’m not certain if I care about the credit card companies making it in the end. Fellow man would have to be very loosely defined to include visa. The problem I forsee is that inflation might be so high and stocks so depleted you won’t be able to get much of anything.

    I would setup my perimeter security and active my group. Pre-position my cashe’s. Start my residential building modifications. Buy more seeds.

    #34414
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Well .. there’s very little you can do when the bottom falls out. They have you tied down in so many ways to be literally free might be a shock. I could use a dog. A German Shepard would be nice. The dog would be cheap but his vest could be expensive. And then i would have to stock up on dog food. Dog would have to snarl on command at our ex family. My wife would really like that. lol

    #34419
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>c wrote:</div>But you would be “stealing” from your fellow man… :(

    Or you could be wrong about the end of the world as we know it, and bankrupt yourself buying stuff your don’t really need when everything goes back to normal and the bills finally do come in.

    Readiness has more to do with what is going on between your ears then how massive your stockpile of resources. We can only be so ready for the unknown and the unknowable.

    Finding some way to find peace and tranquility NOW will go a long way with dealing with an unknowable future. Making friends with our subconscious mind is a good start in finding peace within ourselves. When we trust ourselves, we know deep down that is doesn’t matter what the future brings — we will know what to do.

    Not stealing, just seeing how long the credit will extend.
    Not like they wouldn’t be happy getting their 18% if nothing happens.

    I remember several ‘acquaintances’ back just prior to Y2K, having nothing prepped or stored, they did just this. One however came out all-right. His vacation house burned, containing all the stuff he bought. (cough cough) Because he had all the receipts for the stuff he had just bought and the remnants of similar items were in the residue, the insurance company paid for it all.

    The other, had more than enough in his safe to have paid cash for everything he bought, he just took the chance that he might have gotten the stuff “free” if it had totally collapsed and the CC companies gone kaput.
    He paid it all off before the interest was due, so he didn’t rack up any interest charges and still got the ‘points’ on the card.

    Peace and tranquility, nice to find.
    But hard to find when you’re freezing or struggling to find something to eat.

    For me, it’s canned/stored foods. The weather and soil here limit growing to crops that have extremely short seasons. And that’s after the soil has been improved. A garden? Not without a greenhouse.
    But I have deer in the front yard. Trade off.

    #34421
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Well I think that credit cards will not work by then since the government will know before us. Cash is king for the first 24 to 48 hours so make sure you have some.

    MountainBiker, Yes use the electric company till they turn everything off because the dollar is worth zero to them. Save the gas and use the wood since you can find more wood but you will not find gas and gas can be used for other things like cooking.

    Whirlibird your list is right on, if no credit card then use cash because all things on your list will be worth a lot. Deer sound very good to me.

    If the credit cards work than use them first.

    #34429
    Profile photo of c
    c
    Newbie
    member7

    I’m helping my eldest daughter with a consumer math course (Math-U-See: Stewardship) right now. Just today we were taking about credit cards and how using a credit card is a “promise to pay”. When we go into a store and find something of value we want, we and go to the cashier and “promise to pay” with a piece of plastic called a credit card.

    Personally, I would not use my credit card to take property from others with the full knowledge of not intending to pay for that property. I have many socialist friends that also believe it’s okay to “steal” from corporations because the are “evil”. Personally, I see a corporation as a organized group of people. Morally, I see it as wrong to steal from an individual, or a group of individuals, or a “faceless” corporation. There is no difference for me.

    You may see things differently. That’s okay. We all have different moral compasses which means we will go in different directions…

    Steve Demme of Math-U-See quotes Proverbs 22:7, “The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.”

    #34434
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    c, Oh I have the same morals as you. What we are talking about is if we see a SHTF and you can use your credit card then do that if you are able to pay for it. If the banking system goes down and the dollar collapses you better use all your cash before the collapse happens, if not you are going to be holding paper for the fire to keep you warm.

    #34450
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Free,
    Not everyone has the same problems to solve. Morality will be trumped by needs. Not many people will pass up food when they are starving, or medicine they need to live if they are dying. No one should confuse how things are now with after shtf.

    If one of your children will die for lack of medicine and you cannot buy it now in a quantity sufficient to last more than a month. A medicine you can’t concoct yourself. It is stored in large quantity locally but you can’t buy it. Should you let your child die or should you take what you need from the pharmaceutical supply? I know what I would do without hesitation.

    #34453
    Profile photo of lonewolf
    lonewolf
    Survivalist
    member6

    problem with where I live is finding anywhere with the stuff I want, I am a long way from any “urban centre” which suits me fine, so I would be “topping up” my food stores IN CASH as the tills might not be working by this time at local village stores, maybe have a look in the farm supply store at the top of the town and topping up my fuel containers at the local filling station, there isn’t a lot else I can do given my location.

    British Survivalist.

    #34457
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I will only try to buy extra supplies since I have been storing and preparing for years. At that time any extra gas, can foods which I would use to give away to family members would be what I would buy.

    #34459
    Profile photo of c
    c
    Newbie
    member7

    “Morality will be trumped by needs.” Or will it?

    Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought one of the reasons for having religious or moral believes was to “sustain” a person during “bad times”.

    BUT the original question wasn’t what to do in SHFT if your children are starving and need medicines? The original question was actions for what I would call pre-SHFT because the grid will more likely go up and down many many times before it would fail permanently: “I’m talking about the in-between time when SHTF hasn’t actually happened yet, but it appears to be imminent and is starting to unfold in a way that we here can see it but the masses are still thinking it’ll all blow over.”

    During transition times, it might (and I say might) be a better strategy to protect “business as usual” (peaceful interactions and trading between people) rather than worsening a bad situation by actions that deepen the crisis even if these personal action might for a short time better our personal comfort.

    #34461
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    The fact that we think it is starting doesn’t mean it actually is. There is always a chance that we read the tea leaves wrong. On that basis those who charge up a storm on credit cards will in fact have the bill come due. My saying that I would switch to heat pumps so as to conserve my wood and propane isn’t any different. If things don’t fall apart I’ll have a bigger electric bill and it’ll get paid. If it all falls apart, there won’t be a bill forthcoming and the money in my bank account that would have paid that bill will be gone forever too.

    At the very early stages of a collapse scenario, credit cards will work but I expect that quickly enough they won’t. When that occurs there will still be commerce for a brief period for those who have cash or something else of value to trade. It is prudent to have cash on hand for that contingency, no different that we should never be waiting for “it” to commence before stocking up on the preps we need.

    As an aside, human nature is such that there would be a powerful urge to stock up more even if you are already well stocked up. It is the other actions that we might take that I am curious about. Whirlibird noted having the kids call grandma and grandpa one last time. That’s a great idea. For those who will relocate to a BOL when it starts to unfold, I would expand on that thought to include notifying loved ones who won’t be traveling with you where it is you are heading to, so that they’re not left wondering what became of you. Another one is the disposition of the property you are leaving behind. Back when we had two homes, there was no way we’d of been able to take all of our stuff with us to the BOL, and no guarantee we’d ever be coming back to the primary residence. At the time my thinking was that before we left I’d give a key to my next door neighbors and ask them if they would take charge of the property so to speak. Help themselves to any supplies we left behind, allow refugee family & friends to stay there as they deem appropriate, and generally protect and preserve as best they can should we be able to return someday. Where we lived in the Western part of the Massachusetts would surely see plenty of Boston area refugees….adult children returning home for example. Better this approach than just abandoning it and hoping it stays there undisturbed.

    Coming back to that last preps run, mine would include a bit of frivolity. In addition to picking up fresh fruit and veggies knowing it’ll be a while before I’d get any again, I’d buy some good junk food…..cake, ice cream, cookies potato chips…given who knows when I’d get that again and then get a take-out pizza for that night’s dinner from my favorite place. Some last hurrah comfort food on the way out.

    #34463
    Profile photo of c
    c
    Newbie
    member7

    Furthemore, Dmitry Orlov in the book Five Stages of Collapse, talks about collapse not as a all-or-nothing event but stages. I don’t agree with a number of aspects of his book and he has some serious logical failing that invalid his whole premise. Nevertheless, we can still learn some valuable lessons from his stages of collapse.

    “Stage 1: Financial collapse. Faith in “business as usual” is lost. The future is no longer assumed resemble the past in any way that allows risk to be assessed and financial assets to be guaranteed. Financial institutions become insolvent; savings are wiped out, and access to capital is lost.

    Stage 2: Commercial collapse. Faith that “the market shall provide” is lost. Money is devalued and/or becomes scarce, commodities are hoarded, import and retail chains break down, and widespread shortages of survival necessities become the norm.

    Stage 3: Political collapse. Faith that “the government will take care of you” is lost. As official attempts to mitigate widespread loss of access to commercial sources of survival necessities fail to make a difference, the political establishment loses legitimacy and relevance.

    Stage 4: Social collapse. Faith that “your people will take care of you” is lost, as local social institutions, be they charities or other groups that rush in to fill the power vacuum run out of resources or fail through internal conflict.

    Stage 5: Cultural collapse. Faith in the goodness of humanity is lost. People lose their capacity for “kindness, generosity, consideration, affection, honesty, hospitality, compassion, charity” Families disband and compete as individuals for scarce resources.”

    Dmitry Orlov believes we should do everything in our power to avoid a social collapse or worse a cultural collapse. We should spend our time working on building community, not tearing down the structures that have given us our present good life.

    Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that some preppers are almost wishing for the end of the world as we know it. It’s almost like they can’t wait for civilization to fall apart. It’s like they are just waiting to “be all they can be” which might include being plunders and murders.

    If you read Dmitry Orlov’s book you will realize that there are level of social breakdown where many of us would prefer death.

    http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2008/02/five-stages-of-collapse.html

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