November 28, 2014 at 4:36 pm #30636November 28, 2014 at 7:04 pm #30658
Turn about seems to be fair play lol. I had to google that.
This is going to sound backwards. First off tho, is there a trapper in the audience? Hunting is an honorable sport (and fishing minus the mercury from china), but if its shtf, life or death, you really want to pal up with a trapper, and or learn as much as you can about the topic. The more the better. Most of the poachers i have run across aren’t exactly the nicest of people, but there not going to go hungry if shtf (i refer you to my post on salt, whirlibirds addition is a great option) hunters will, depending on lady luck and tracking skills. Competition for game depending on where you are will be fierce. Game wardens have their hands full as it is, post shtf, i don’t imagine there will be much anyone can do to stop the wipe out of game people are not going to wait until fall. They probably won’t wait for a buck, they will shoot whatever opportunity presents itself. 1 maybe 2 good years of big game, or none at all depending on where you are and whats happening/the event is. Forest fires are a big consideration for you and I in b.c. Animals get weird around smoke. You will be lucky to see a bird.
Judged by 12 vrs carried by six if its life or death.
Trappers know hands down, lots of storys of blood being spilt over trap lines. There will be fierce territorial competition between men who understand this. No doubt i will have a fan for saying that in the future. Sorry the more the merrier on the other side.
You really want to think about whether or not you want to risk moving around that much if shtf. I don’t think its worth the risk, or the waste in calories. Its better to store as much as you can now, than lean on your skills even if your are the absolute best forager you can be. those kinds of skills are great dont get me wrong, same thing with primitive skills. But id still rather a sharp knife over a sharp rock, know what i mean?
I do like your rations tho. Thats a hell of a lot of cals for six pounds. I am tempted to check your work.
heres where everything sounds backwards, i don’t have your background so bear with me. and please feel free to correct, (everyone).
everyone right now wants to be skinny, somehow somewhere along the line we where all convinced that mother nature had it wrong and fat is our enemy. 1 pound of fat, should = about 3300 cals, its easy to carry calories, mother natures way of saving our asses (haha) in the event of a famine, bad crop year, random ice age.
now it seems to me, that everyone has a different metabolism, depending on what body type they are (3 of them), where they are in life, and there current health. so it is incredibly important that you know your body type, and try to as best you can determine your resting metabolism, and your high metabolism during heavy exorcize.
men and women have different calorie/fat/protein requirements. Especially if a woman is pregnant. To anyone else reading, its up to you to learn, just like learning your blood type.
Now the way your talking about rationing, depends on a few important things.
1. how much fat do you have on you right now? be honest with yourself.
2. how much labor will you be doing today?
Most people require in or around 2000 cals per day, sitting perfectly still. That covers breathing, bowls, brains etc. Its not universal, just a guestimate.
light to heavy labor, typically requires an additional 100-200 cals per hour, on top of this. Light being walking, heavy being running for dear life with full combat ruck and sweating buckets. (this is a generalization, i can break the notes out if someone wants exacts)
If you find yourself, like i did my first practice run, rationing 1700 cals per day, that means your body is drawing the remaining cals it needs, from either your muscles glucose stores, or your fat. both will run out eventually, but not the way you might think.
when you run out of glucose stores, your going to find out where you are on the diabetics scale, you are definitely going to notice performance changes regardless. both in thinking, and in physical movement for you warriors.
heres the part where most people screw up with their diets and starve themselves thinking they are going to burn fat next. as soon as you run out of glucose and the body realizes it has nothing easy left to burn, you go into starvation mode your body is goin to start the initial phases of some very unpleasant experiences.
You do not want this to happen… until you are ready to experience what its like to be in a nazi death camp… all kinds of problems you did not know about are going to start popping up… especially if vitamin/min deficient.
In an ideal situation, you want to try to aim for burning 300-500 cals max of your fat reserves PER DAY. You have to get the rest from the food you are rationing. It takes bug out practices with excersize routines (simulating your daily logistic or combat struggles) to find out where you are, and the lovely part is… that changes over your life, its a tough one to get perfect, but try anyway.
The moment you run out of fat, is the moment you EAT MORE to compensate, ever aiming for where you think your current metabolism is. do not ignore this.
Depending on your individual circumstances, you will have to decide for yourself, whether or not you want to run a high metabolism (combat) or a low metabolism (survival) in a shtf.
keeping a low metabolism, means never ever breaking a sweat. If your sweating your working to hard, your temperature is up, and so is your metabolism.
if your stuck between a rock and a hard place, and sweating anyway, go hard and fast without worry, the numbers are to low to worry about.
your rations, have plenty of sodium, which is awesome.
the downside is that it is incredibly high in protein, unless your a native american, whos genes are used to high protein diets and low fat diets, you really have to be careful about your protein intake.
i have to break the notes out, im over tired and cannot recal exactly what its called. but to much protein over extended periods of time, if you have not built yourself up, and are used to it, can cause a poisoning, i just have a brain fart right now as to what is called. Pretty sure it has a lot to do with the kidneys ability to deal with (brain fart). i promise i will look it up.
its only a concern tho, if you are looking at a protein rich survival diet, with very few carbs. like what you would be facing here in b.c. if you run out of modern food supply.
this is unfortunately going to take a lot of people out
im not saying your rations are no good, there awesome, but you have to consider what the rest of your diet is going to be like. carbs are going to be more valuable than people think in an emergency. just like all that wonderful fat. (they are lying to us…)
heres the part where your probably going to disagree with me. you need to add complex carbs, carbs, and sugars to your daily rations for survival. oatmeal is great, rice is great (fortified) (in moderation because of the arsenic these days ), and chocolate is heaven i dont care if it kills me or whos leg got chopped off getting the bean.
The reason being, if you find yourself in a survival situation, as great as it would be to have the healthiest of products, like organic coconut oil, they just cannot replace the glucose your going to require to save your life in the short term whilst running from bears and bandits. Its a complicated process turning fat into glucose, if i am not mistaken (please correct if incorrect).
Under stress, its best to keep things simple for your body. This is just my opinion, backed by nothing.
rabbit starvation awaits those who ignore how valuable fat is.
My current ration load out (slaps belly) + 1200 cals x9 days or in heavy hiking 3 days at 3600 cals. Life boat rations. In combination with vitamin supplements and hydro lyte mix. They need very little water to digest, so i get to carry less water than i would require for a high protein diet to digest.
All in all i hope that helps, i will have to track that poison thing down for you after i catch some zzZZZ or someone could be so kind as to list below.
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 28, 2014 at 8:34 pm #30669
I like your load-out but, I’m wondering how you arrived at 9.5 days as a time frame and why 6 lbs.November 28, 2014 at 9:12 pm #30674November 28, 2014 at 9:15 pm #30675November 28, 2014 at 9:46 pm #30680November 28, 2014 at 10:20 pm #30687
If I can elbow in here…
Just moving around doing day to day things right now, requires a 2000 cal/day diet.
When I was Active Duty and deployed, we were burning well over 4000 cal/day just to stay mission capable and to keep going. That increased as things changed re: labor, weather, temperature, etc… at one point, I estimated I was pulling in and burning closer to 6000 cal/day… I eventually got sick of eating them so much and just went back to one per day. Serious energy loss, plus my BDU’s were hanging off me within a week. When we got back to “the world”, I weighed myself. Almost 30 lbs lighter.
Back in The Before Time, I heard that one military issue MRE contained 3,600 calories. I do not doubt that, but I also do not know if that is still true. They were also designed to “stop you up”. If anyone else here can corroborate, eating two MRE’s a day for more than a day or two will seriously throw off your “rythm”… I know just talking about it is distasteful, but it was not uncommon for us to go a couple weeks without… erm… “doing our business”. You get the idea. (Edit: The chewing gum in those MRE’s was rumored to have some sort of laxative in them… judging by the reaction of people who chewed the gum – versus the people who did not chew the gum – I tend to think that that particular rumor was true. If someone chewed the supplied gum, within an hour, they were doing the “Green Apple Quickstep”…)
Lipids and sugars are the things your body burns for fuel when doing serious work. Protein is what your body needs for building stuff – like muscle. Also to repair damage, etc.. Greens are needed to stay “regular” and provide vitamins/minerals. Don’t forget salt. Your thyroid needs iodized salt to make other stuff out of – stuff you need. Plus, salt and sugar form an electrolyte, which, since the human body is a bioelectric machine, you also need…
As far as ‘best load out’? I would probably carry the basics, concentrating on lipids and sugars, salts, etc, and dehydrated/dried stuff. Meat I can get pretty much anywhere. You’d be surprised what I’ve had to eat over the years.
A snake is just a big tube sock of meat. Groundhogs (aka: woodchuck, whistle pig, ground squirrel, land beaver) are marmots, in the same family as their tree dwelling cousins. Both are members of the same family: Sciuridae. Both are edible. Down here, with plenty of eats for them, they can get to be whoppers…. 30+ pounds. I’ve blasted enough of them over the years to know that this is solid gold truth. Shoot it, skin it, dunk it in flour and fry the crap out of it – just like a chicken – I doubt you’d notice or care what you were eating…
Meat is meat, no matter where it comes from. Even from critters you would normally turn your nose up at or consider pests.
Your 6 pound loadout?
Yes to the butter (salted), cheese and bacon. I hate coconut, so I’d probably sub in something else for those two. I would also add in some flour and dried stuff, as well as a small bottle of vitamins.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1November 28, 2014 at 10:38 pm #30692November 29, 2014 at 12:39 am #30698
1 case of LRP rations , stripped down , other things store bought , that are ready to eat , that gives me 5 days food ., more if I dont eat full meals or find something to suppliment along the way . I figure breakfast and dinner will be spent in camp , lunch will be on the move . Im in good shape , I dont worry about weight , either I want to eat , or I dont ……….I dont want to forage from the get go , the pack gets lighter as you use consumables .
Historical note about fat in your body . When the Germans were in Stalingrad , seemingly able bodied soldiers would literally just drop dead , for reasons unknown . They flew in a medical specialist to find out why , after some autopsies , he found that there was no fat on the bodies . From that point on , they started issuing fat rations to the men , but by then , it was too late on several levels . The Germans were so traumatized by the eastern front , that even soldiers in the western front got fat rations issued .November 29, 2014 at 6:28 am #30706
Bruce lee ” my truth is not your truth, your truth is not my truth”
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>c wrote:</div>(I do this because lean protein is easier to come by in the wild.)
absolutely, carbs however are not easy to come across. you dont want to be eating cat tails or inner tree bark every day believe me…
it takes a LOOOONG as time to build yourself up to eating 5 pounds of protein per day like the tough mother lovers who broke ground here.
your jerky cheese and pork are all protein you can find plenty of protein in the wild you cannot find abundance of carbs or fat. Try a cat tail, they are aweful and no substitute for oat meal, which is also awful.
don’t miss understand c. i believe as you do about processed foods. but as a male, i am more concerned about being domed by another male than living long enough for processed food to get me. if your diet works for you because of your medical needs, absolutely disregard everything i have said. but i hope you really think about it, instead of arguing over who is right for everyone.
i am sorry to disagree, its not a topic i am interested in fighting about. endurance is the name of the game in shtf, and endurance sport nutrition and learning how to carb load is essential to marathons. and yes, we bonk, but we are always eating.
i sincerely hope you try your bug out diet out for seven days straight. AND exorcize / practice cutting wood, gardening and hiking at the same time. *edit make sure someone is keeping an eye on you 4 if you encounter a medical problem.
you do not want to be fasting if you don’t have 2 if shtf… fasting comes after you have run out of food…
it feels like quiting smoking, it feels like going without water, it feels like starving.
regardless. really think about how you ration, it is life or death… and requires immense discipline.
malgus killed it in his reply, wish id have read it first, but i am posting this anyway.
test your diet out for seven days C.
p.s. id rather drink piss than eat an mre. both might kill you *chuckle*
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 29, 2014 at 6:34 am #30708
how about that, brain fart followed by serendipity.
still looking for what the chemical is called when your body busts down protiens for to long, it kills your k idneys. ignore at your own perril .
many of the vitamins your body requires are fat soluable *points to rabbit starvation* Initially, many men died breaking ground, they where getting plenty of food, but no fat.
there are only three counters to this if caught in the wild without a pre cached source of fat… moose late season, bear late season, and beaver. bear is as bad as pork, so cook it until black, or your going to get worms and who knows what else. (being native american helps, but they still need fat)
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 29, 2014 at 6:36 am #30709
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Tolik wrote:</div>Historical note about fat in your body . When the Germans were in Stalingrad , seemingly able bodied soldiers would literally just drop dead , for reasons unknown . They flew in a medical specialist to find out why , after some autopsies , he found that there was no fat on the bodies . From that point on , they started issuing fat rations to the men , but by then , it was too late on several levels . The Germans were so traumatized by the eastern front , that even soldiers in the western front got fat rations issued .
cool, the life boat rations also have lots of fat in them. i will add to this post with ingredient list.
Tastes like coconut tho
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 29, 2014 at 6:59 am #30714
all eight amino acids. nummers. i live for the day im thankful for eating worms.
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 29, 2014 at 8:22 am #30720
Datrex life boat rations, multi purpose emergency ration. Sub fiber pills if your worried about the lack in fiber, but theres lots of that out there 2.
18 bars at 200 cals per, 3600 cals total.
Fat 8.7 grams mono and poly unsats.
protien 2.8 grams (missing amino acids)
carbs 24.7 grams
sugar 5 grams
sodium .75 mg (life boat)
cholesterol .378 mg
Ingredients, wheat flour, vegetable shortening, cane sugar, water coconut, and salt.
its just my preference, the china man who sold me these *shakes fist* distributing in canada gave me these ones instead of the vitamin enriched ones i paid extra for *shakes fist*. He said the other ones tasted like bad.
Lovely when someone else feels the need to make decisions for you. No repeat business for you bub.
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 29, 2014 at 4:08 pm #30749
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