February 29, 2016 at 4:43 am #47619
I was being tongue in cheek when I said the Romans made water flow up a hill… but, they did use syphons to move water up hills – so long as the other end was lower than the water’s start point, it would work. Same as a person syphoning gas out of a car.
The other thing they did was to have a water wheel turn a series of pumps and/or bucket system to transfer the water mechanically up a hill to a reservoir where it could be used to power other equipment or supply water to people via aqueducts..
However, small scale, it could be done – just a matter of how much effort one wants to put into it. River turns an undershot water wheel, which drives a mechanical pump. Pump fills reservoir higher up. Reservoir dumps water on a pitch back wheel, which powers whatever you want it to do. Water flows back into river. You’re not limited to one wheel, either. If space permits, water could power a series of pitch back wheels going down a hill – again, the Romans thought this up long ago. They actually diverted a stream to power a series of wheels down an entire hillside to grind grain… the amount of flour they turned out was staggering for the time… about 4 1/2 tons a day.
Wouldn’t take a whole lot to make a walking beam type dual cylinder pump…. drive it off a cam hooked to the first water wheel to fill the reservoir…
Just an interesting thought experiment…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Malgus.
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.February 29, 2016 at 2:14 pm #47622
Thanks guys for affirming I am not crazy for being intrigued with the hydro possibility. In the current regulatory environment it would be a fool’s errand to go down that road. Only in a post-general collapse world would it make sense, but that’s the scenario I was thinking. My weekend headache/feeling faint is almost gone and so maybe tomorrow I’ll explain it further to my son.
I just pulled out a town history written in 1976 for the bicentennial. The mill was built in 1830 and was in operation until 1920. There is a photo of it, a beautiful 3.5 story stone structure. In one photo you can see the dam at the base of the falls where the water comes down the mountain. The dam is long gone too.February 29, 2016 at 2:41 pm #47626
MB, you’re right with respect to the current regulatory environment. You’d end up worse off than the land owner out in Wyoming not too far from Whirlibird who simply built a small pond. But after a collapse, which would render the alphabet agencies useless, who’d stop you from building what you wanted? It could even lead to potentially more local cooperation if you worked it right. Certainly it couldn’t be kept a secret, so a cooperative effort both to build and secure it could be very beneficial (and would be virtually essential, it would seem). Nice tribe-building potential, with significant upgraded living conditions for those involved. Some quiet pre-planning could prove very useful with those you trust. Needed equipment and “parts” could be systematically acquired and stored for future use. The potential is exciting.February 29, 2016 at 2:42 pm #47627
Building a large dam that wouldn’t break in a flood is a daunting task. Pulling water from up steam in a pipe might be a more feasable method. In any case I wouldn’t be to serious until I measured the vertical head.
A ram pump is fairly easy to build and can be used to lift water. A large pump can move a lot of water continuously.
February 29, 2016 at 8:15 pm #47629
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by 74.
74, the mill was very close to where the water cascades down the hillside into what I’d call the flats. I had assumed that they were using the force of that falling water to power the mill but having seen the photo of the dam I can’t say for sure how they did it. I need to find an old timer who might remember how it was done. I’m guessing that the original infrastructure was still there for a long time after the mill stopped operating and so maybe some old folks might remember.February 29, 2016 at 8:20 pm #47630
Took out my .50 and got it sighted in this week. It is INCREDIBLE…….
.50 BMG. There is no substitute.
http://ageofdecadence.comFebruary 29, 2016 at 9:02 pm #47634
Got a chance to fire the Barrett once in my lifetime. I only got two rounds, but still – what an absolute thrill! You’ve got me drooling….
In related news…
Tennessee names Barrett .50 cal official state rifleFebruary 29, 2016 at 10:13 pm #47635
I wouldn’t be concerned with how it was set up in the past. If it is coming down a hillside and you have any amount of volume you can power something, maybe many things. There is a bounty of information available for hydro power. It sounds like you have potential for a sizable hydroelectric plant. You might start your own utility project now and get grants to set it up.
I’m jealous. What range did you use to sight it in?
March 1, 2016 at 3:26 pm #47643
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by 74.
While an interesting thought experiment, you need to realize it would take a small army to build something like this – and in Post-whatever Land, you’re gonna need folks with some pretty specialized skills to pull it off. Carpenters, masons, probably a surveyor or two, a genuine Civil Engineer – plus the raw materials to do it… and all these people need to be fed and also protected while the project is underway – and whatever you build will in and of itself be a nice juicy target for anyone who’s bent on making life difficult for you…
Thing is, in Post-land, as roadways become more and more dangerous, waterways might once again become routes of travel – especially for goods. If you outright owned the land on both sides of the water, that might pay dividends, but also presents logistical challenges if you’re at the edge of your tribe’s territory…
Not saying it’s impossible – far as I’m concerned, all it requires is the will and the means to do it. This kind of thing has already been done long ago – nothing to re-invent. The trick is to pull it off with what you’re going to have on hand or can scrounge…
Not trying to squash your enthusiasm – just saying there’s going to be issues that will crop up that you haven’t given thought to..
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1March 1, 2016 at 7:52 pm #47644
How much labor depends on what type of installation is planed and when you do it. Currenty it would require money; for equipment, plans, licenses. Backhoes speed construction up considerably for things like this. Really it comes down to the cost of the total project versus the benefits.March 1, 2016 at 8:58 pm #47646
I sighted in at 225 yards. It is now minute of beer can at that range.
http://ageofdecadence.comMarch 2, 2016 at 12:31 am #47647
Malgus, you are correct. It would be a huge undertaking, one which I really am not planning on doing. As noted before I am just intrigued knowing that it was done in 1830, long before there was electricity or heavy equipment. If I own the land and the world falls apart, maybe it would benefit my kids or grandkids after a new normal settles in. If not, they’d have a second hay field and their choice of fishing spots. There’s a small swimming hole too where someone dammed the water up a little with some stones. As an aside it is more or less the center of the hamlet and so would not be a remote outpost come SHTF.
You mentioned waterways being used as travel and commerce routes. That’s true but not this river. Its head waters are only about 10 miles or so to the south, a large lake up on the mountain. Another 10 miles or so to the north it joins a larger river which would lend itself to be a travel route. Between the headwaters and my neighborhood is substantially unpopulated.
I did learn last night that the mill was being undermined by the river and that there was a 3 or 4% lean to it when they tore it down. I imagine it would have been massively expensive to preserve it under those conditions.
Of course this is all theoretical until such point as I can convince my wife that we want to buy it. Its been for sale for a couple years and clearly nobody else around here sees it the way I see it. The owner is some guy in California who thought he was buying some prime land he saw in a photo. Way overpaid for it. The photo was taken on the south end from the bridge looking north across the whole property except it was done in a way that the eyes focused on a postcard quality cow pasture that abuts it to the north. Never buy land sight unseen.
Then again, most of the folks we know thought we were nuts buying our place here too. They didn’t see the potential I saw nor did they (or do they still) see its advantages for what is to come, on account they don’t see anything coming.
March 16, 2016 at 9:55 pm #47883
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by MountainBiker.
Today I removed the snow plow on the garden tractor, installed a new drive belt, and plowed the garden. As soon as it dries out a little I’ll disc, then plant all the early crops like peas.March 19, 2016 at 4:26 pm #47913
What I did today:
Took receipt of an invaluable resource.
AHFS Drug Handbook, 2nd Edition.
Lists all known drugs – including holistic herbs and such – in America today. The brand names, their generic names, their foreign names. Their effects, reasons prescribed and recommended dosages, possible side effects…
In Post-Land, who knows what anyone will come across, under what circumstances or knows where something originated? This will at least help. It won’t make you a doctor or a pharmacist, but it will let you know what “Chemical X” is supposed to be used for… how much… what the blowback could possibly be… etc…
And the best part… I got it for ONE PENNY.
Seriously. One cent. Ex-library book off of Amazon. It’s in perfect condition – even the spine is uncracked. All’s I did was peel off the “SCHMUCKATELLI LIBRARY” stickers and then use Ronson Lighter Fluid to remove the adhesive residue… Looks new.
Best penny I ever spent.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.March 20, 2016 at 12:51 am #47918
Malgus, a few years back I had bought the Physician’s Desk Reference, 2009 edition, for the same reason, except I paid a lot more than a penny for it.
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