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  • #46812
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    All my International travel that would potentially require a passport was always done on Uncle Sam’s dime. Since Mexico and Canada didn’t require a passport for travel, I never got one. Now that my state’s driver license is no longer accepted as ID on military installation or by TSA, I have to go get a passport. Here is where my mind immediate went:
    “Your papers,” says the Nazi soldier…..

    No joke. I immediately wondered why we are now being forced to have passports even for travel inside the US. This change really makes me wonder what the overall agenda is and how this will effect us in the long term. Some things to think about:
    * We cannot use certain drivers licenses for ID to board planes.
    * We cannot use certain drivers licenses for ID to enter military installations.
    * We now have to have a passport to go north or south.
    * All this took place under the watchful eye of a bunch of socialist asshats that are hell bent on destroying our rights.

    Where is this going to end or am I just making a mountain out of a mole hill?

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #46813
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    Personally I’d say you picked the right tree to bark up. There has been a push for years for laws requiring national ID cards, and there is talk of chipping everyone, or at least new born.

    There are cameras everywhere recording your passage on the road, picking up your plate number. And don’t forget every car has a black box.

    #46814
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    My wife and I were just brainstorming what we’d like to do for our 50th wedding anniversary (still an undisclosed few years off). She really, really wants to see New England during peak fall color season. Having grown up in the north, I can appreciate that, though having been-there-done-that, it’s not my top choice. Still, just that nice driving trip might be a really nice experience – and since she’s my best friend, it wouldn’t matter where we went – I’d still enjoy it. SO, that idea went to the top of the list, since it would be so nice for her.

    Thinking back to growing up, with many trips into and through Ontario, I came to appreciate that area as well (and the people). Drive in, declare your reason for visiting, answer a few quick questions about what you’ve got on board, and “have a nice day.” Coming back? Same thing, with the addition of whether we had anything to declare. No problem – ever. Our US state license plate was all I remember being used for ID back in those days. Heck – going to Canada was simply visiting nearby neighbors. When I lived in western NY, I used to enjoy crossing at Niagara Falls, then driving down along the river to the Peace Bridge in Buffalo to come back across. Never, ever any hassle whatsoever. I used to do a lot of curling, and took teams over to Canada all the time, and we had a lot of beach parties on Lake Erie (Canadian side) during college – all just normal, unremarkable events. And when I was stationed in Texas we decided to drive down to a border town, walk across the border, shop for the day, and come back. It was so uneventful I literally don’t even remember crossing the border itself – just the enjoyable shopping trip.

    Now, if we want to go up and see their leaves, we need a freakin’ passport?!? I remember just a few years ago when I learned that, I was furious. So we’re now US-confined. We refuse to get passports. For that matter, I’m not sure we’ll ever fly anywhere again due to TSA, the hassle just boarding a plane, and also the high level of theft from luggage (already experienced it, as well as having the humiliation of watching our carry-on bags being hand inspected across the room, with laughter and unnecessary close inspection of personal items in the bags (nothing X-rated here – just nothing I care to mention).

    The feeling of powerlessness is substantial, having experienced the other side of that coin growing up. There HAS to be more to it, including better/easier routine tracking of everybody. All they really need for most American citizens is a drivers license, and if they really question who you are, a fingerprint. I had a top secret clearance for close to a decade while in the military. So why do I need a freakin’ passport to spend a day in southern Ontario before coming back home? (Rhetorical question. And I recoil at the answers.)

    No Sledjockey, you’re not out of line at all.

    #46816
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Sled, quite honestly I don’t understand what the objection is to having driver’s licenses that actually verify you are who you are. Mine has my address, photo, birth date, height, weight, hair color, eye color. Nobody but me is going to be able to use that license as ID. I think that is the point of it all. And I had to produce my birth certificate in order to get the license. None of it was a big deal.

    I feel bad for folks from States that don’t want to comply with having proper driver’s licenses. Getting passports is added expense and effort that folks shouldn’t need to do if not exiting the country. US Passports are good for 10 years once you get it though. Kids are only 5 years I think.

    GS, if coming up for foliage and if you wanted to extend the trip into Canada, try Quebec City. It is as close to visiting an old European city as you will find in North America. Stay in the “Old City” within either the old walled part of the upper city or just below it in the lower city. This is the heart of the tourist area and you can walk anywhere, upper or lower from anyplace upper or lower (there is an outside funicular to bring you between upper and lower if you don’t want to climb the stairs). We always stay in the suite in a boutique hotel in the lower city for the same price you’d pay for a ordinary run of the mill room in NYC. The Frontenac on the other hand can be pretty pricey. Everyone speaks English in the Old City, but if you venture into non-tourist areas of Quebec there’s a good chance nobody speaks English. Quebec City is one of my absolute favorite places.

    #46818
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    I have not run into this , I have a passport , and used it to go to Cancun Mexico last year ( you have to have one now to Canada and Mexico after 9/11 , this isnt anything new ) , but I flew from Maine to AZ for Christmas using only my drivers license ……………no problems , no questions . Matter of fact I traveled a great deal to many states using only my DL as ID ………..never a problem . They sometimes questioned some things I was carrying , but thats another issue . I have to agree with MountainBiker , the AZ drivers license is the same way , has your picture , hight,weight,eye color , address ………it has always been that way . Not a bad thing . The on y thing other states freak out about an AZ DL is the expiration date ……….its expires when you turn 65 ! , so you could be an 18 year old kid , and it expires on the year you turn 65 . Also , even though it was a friendly thing to do for a long time , not to need a passport to enter Canada or Mexico …………it made no sense ! doesnt matter what country you go to , your crossing an international border , you should be required to show proof of nationality to the country your entering , and vise versa . Even when you didnt need one to cross over to a border town and do some shopping , etc ……….if you wanted to go far into Mexico or Canada , you had to get a visa and produce a passport , so that never changed . I grew up in a border town in the Southwest , I know that very well . We used to walk across to mexico freely all the time , we would go drinking there , because we were under age in the US . Mexico was a different place then , you didnt have to worry like you do now , but still needed a visa past X number of miles away from the border . Honestly though , I envy my parents and grandparents generation that could catch a TRAIN to almost any place in the country , and it was enjoyable traveling by their accounts . I also agree with GS about the TSA , they need to be disbanded . Its old news guys , as far as needing a passport for our neighbors , that happened when George Bush was still in office . Been in effect almost 15 years now .

    #46820
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Real ID came into being back in 2005. The Western Hemisphere travel thing went into effect in 2007 or 2008. That is what started the whole passport to go to Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and many other Caribbean locations. I went almost all the way to Yukon and about 75 miles north of Mexico City all via motorcycle back in the early 1990’s without issue. Spent many nights during my youth drinking in both Canadian and Mexican border towns. I was even able to go to Okinawa, mainland Japan and Thailand with only a military ID and a set of orders. Never needed a passport. Again, this is a new trend to lock us down perpetrated by our politicians, Democraps and RINO’s alike.

    Again this is all new for Real ID was just enforced this year…….

    Things are getting worse and worse from my perspective.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Profile photo of sledjockey sledjockey.
    #46825
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Here is the thing , when I was going it was in the late 70,s , early 80,s . people went back and forth all the time , they even went deep into Mexico without paperwork all the time , BUT they did so at their own risk , they get in trouble down there , they had real problems because they didnt have the paperwork they were supposed to have , on top of what ever happened . As far as I know , you dont need a passport to go to US territories , like Puerto Rico , US Virgin Islands , etc . I went to PR in 2010 , it was like flying to another state DL only . But again , AZ , like most other states in the country , has a DL that is considered proper ID , so I never experienced any problems with air travel , and I spent 25 years with a company , where there was a 70% travel requirement . Went everywhere in the US practically , and some states I wouldnt pee on , if they were on fire , but thats another tale for another day lol . Had no idea that in this day and age , there were still a hand full of states that didnt furnish their residents with a proper DL . Its my opinion , that military personnel , and their immediate family ( wife / husband , kids ) be provided a US passport as part of the deal , from the get go .

    #46826
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Had no idea that in this day and age , there were still a hand full of states that didnt furnish their residents with a proper DL .

    “Proper DL?” I find it rather surprising that here, of all places, people don’t seem to be the least bit concerned that states are entirely cooperative with FedGov in issuing us our “papers.” Why should my finger print and who knows what all else be encoded on the back of my DL? I was thrilled that my state was one of the last holdouts on the REAL ID law, and was refusing to assist FedGov in collecting and having yet another link to significant personal data. Then they, too, bowed to federal pressure with the threat of loss of massive federal funds if they did not comply.

    Is no one concerned that we now are required to carry a national ID card? That’s not just my paranoid thinking, that’s literally what it is, and what it was explicitly designed to be. And not one of us has any choice in the matter, even if our individual state flipped off FedGov and continued to refuse to comply with the REAL ID Act. There is a provision in the law that mandates everyone to have a compliant card – they were just nice enough to allow us old guys (those over 50, or more specifically those born before 1964) to wait until 2017 to comply. After that, we’re in violation of federal law if we can’t produce our national papers. And the law further states that DHS has the authority, without seeking any further permission of Congress, to make up new rules as to how the REAL ID can be used.

    Perhaps I’m the only one that still bristles when the government first smiles at me and says they’re going to give me a new benefit, such as being able to travel on public transportation for example – a “benefit” I had already possessed during my entire lifetime. Oh yes – in exchange for the new benefit, I have to give up even more personal freedoms and privacy. And if I don’t want the “new” benefit anymore (translated as, I don’t want to be able to ride the train, fly on commercial airliners to visit my kids, etc.), then I will be in violation of federal law and subject to penalties (and even more losses of freedoms).

    #46830
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    I had it switched over to Maine , sense I now live here ……….they didnt ask for finger prints , or any other information that is not already on the AZ license , and the AZ one was dated 2008 . They simply just switched it over . Both are considered proper ID . I’m with MB on this one , I really dont mind my picture and physical description being on it so Juan Valdez cant pretend to be me or try to cash a stolen check or something . The information that is on it is not anything that is not out there already as public record . Banks , Insurance companies , Employers , and other businesses are FAR more intrusive about information , and they are private entities .

    #46831
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    I am actually with GS on this one…… These are our “papers” and a round about way to make us have to carry a national ID card. If we are not required to have it with us at all times in the next 10 years, I will be amazed.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #46832
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Frogs and warming pots….

    #46834
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    GS, my driver’s license doesn’t have my fingerprints either. In this day and age of rampant identity theft, I much prefer my license making it clear that I am who I say I am. What’s the point of even having a license if they don’t clearly identify you? And it should be noted that folks that don’t or can’t drive can get comparable ID’s from the State. My mother and in-laws did that. This is just not a big deal.

    #46835
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Once our state caved in and agreed to keep its federal funding by complying with the REAL ID act, I happened to come up for license renewal shortly thereafter. The significant amount of information I had to supply was quite surprising. Yes, I agree, it’s convenient to prove who I am and that I’m a real US citizen. But what bothered me is that I also had to step up and provide a fingerprint (possibly more than one – can’t recall). I asked if that was mandatory, and was told yes – I could not get the license without it. I complied, but asked a few more questions about all the documents I had to bring (of which they made copies), as well as the fingerprint. I was told that it’s all encoded in the long coded strip on the back (not just a simple old-style bar code). If I can prove who I am to them, and they put a fairly decent anti-counterfeiting device on the card, why can’t that be enough for my ID to whoever? Why do they need to be able to scan in a very large amount of information, including my Social Security number, by virtue of requiring me to hand over my drivers license to an airline, or even to enter a military installation for that matter?

    A good friend of mine was caught up in a raid on the home he stayed in over 30 years ago. One of the people (possibly two) that also lived in the home – all unrelated, just co-workers that were sharing expenses – were involved in drugs. Because drugs were found in the home (not in the room or possession of my friend), he was also arrested, and was young and naive, and accepted a plea deal to avoid jail time.

    Fast forward many years, and he was working as a contractor in a military installation – which required a background check. He was cleared and worked there for many years (finally getting a retirement out of it). He also did volunteer work through the chaplain program on the installation, again no problem.

    Then requirements to enter military installations were severely increased a year or so ago. He had his license scanned and was denied entry to the installation, on a Sunday, on his way to serve in a volunteer capacity. It turned out that it was no “mistake.” It didn’t matter that he worked on the installation for better than two decades, had a perfect record as an employee, had an unblemished legal record – suddenly, with the swipe of his drivers license, he was barred from entry, with no recourse. I can only imagine what would have happened if he hadn’t retired recently, and suddenly could not work.

    Nope. I don’t want that much data on an ID I’m forced to carry and fork over to whoever wants to see (and scan) it. I’ve had my personal data breached twice that I know of big time (the big federal breach a year or so ago – it started earlier than they originally announced), and the big Blue Cross/Anthem breach. I also used to do a little bit of database application development, and am highly familiar with how easy it is to correlate data. In the wrong hands, for the wrong purposes, it can be quite amazing (and scary). Too many people already have too much of my data (and my wife and my children, thank you FedGov), and that innocent bar code on the back of my DL contains a huge amount of personal data that simply is not necessary for the vast majority of ID purposes, and CERTAINLY isn’t something I want to provide to whoever gets possession of it. If they want to verify I’m a US citizen, fine. Use the anti-counterfeit technology of the current card without including ALL of my personal data on the back as well. A State employee in a supervisory position told me it’s all there including my fingerprint – it’s not just my paranoid assumption. If VT also complies with the REAL ID act, I would venture a good guess that yours is on your DL also – you just don’t “see” it.

    Too much information gathering, too much dissemination and availability of it once gathered. Mandatorily. Papers, please?

    #46837
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Some fine day, regardless of who is elected Fürher, the authorities will eventually correlate one or another of my e-opinions with my internal passport (“Driver’s License”), and I’ll instantly become a criminal by simply stepping out of my house, taking a breath, and walking down the street.

    Ehhh ….

    If anyone wonders how the Nazis were able to round up those they desired to work to death, or simply exterminate, they had the pre-computer assistance of a wonderful American Technology company, IBM, which manufactured the card-sorting machines needed to process the Hollerith punch-cards, to locate all the such-and-suches within a given area. Call them “early-adopters.”

    Cry, "Treason!"

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by Profile photo of L Tecolote L Tecolote.
    #46843
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    Tec, we’re just a couple of paranoid, demented old guys…. That’s probably why they’ll leave us alone. ;-)

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