November 28, 2015 at 2:06 am #45527
Very interesting analysis, including the part about building (or not) a pipeline from Qatar to Europe. At least in part, it does go back to the 40 year old movie “Three Days of the Condor” – it is largely about oil. I also appreciated her comments regarding a “sign off” by NATO (which of course would include Erdogan’s buddy Obama) before the Russian aircraft was shot down. If anyone’s not looked at the map of what the alleged incursion consisted of, she is spot-on regarding the total inappropriateness of the shoot-down. The incursion, if it even happened, was only 17 seconds according to Turkey, and was across a tiny 2-mile wide outcropping of Turkish territory – not a straight in incursion to the main land mass with an attempted 180° turn to get back out – just a straight shot across a tiny piece of land.November 28, 2015 at 12:04 pm #45528
At the root this is about power and establishing the caliphate. Some aspects could be about the price of oil and who benefits from controlling the supply. The real objective is dominance over an empire. Turkey, Syria, Iraq, I ran, Jordan, SA, Eygpt, Libya, Israel, (all the other little countries). Erdogan has made public statements that he is the caliph.
October 2014 US Vice President Joe Biden told a Harvard gathering that Erdoğan’s regime was backing ISIS with “hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons…” Biden later apologized clearly for tactical reasons to get Erdoğan’s permission to use Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, but the dimensions of Erdoğan’s backing for ISIS since revealed is far, far more than Biden hinted.
ISIS militants were trained by US, Israeli and now it emerges, by Turkish special forces at secret bases in Konya Province inside the Turkish border to Syria, over the past three years. Erdoğan’s involvement in ISIS goes much deeper. At a time when Washington, Saudi Arabia and even Qatar appear to have cut off their support for ISIS, they remaining amazingly durable. The reason appears to be the scale of the backing from Erdoğan and his fellow neo-Ottoman Sunni Islam Prime Minister, Ahmet Davutoğlu.November 28, 2015 at 2:58 pm #45529
It is impossible to see through the layers within layers and to know what their true goals are. Publicly enemies or at a minimum not aligned with each other but behind the scenes aiding each other. Or allies in public and undermining each other in the background. Oil is just a means to fund whatever their true goals are and for some perhaps the goal is simply money or the political power it buys. If anything is different now it is that Islam is on the march for conquest. Oil and money is simply a means to fund it. They believe their time has come to establish the caliphate, no different than the Chinese think their time has come to be the top dog on the world stage. My guess concerning ‘Bams is that the slights he may have suffered as a black Muslim kid when he moved back to the US from Indonesia or perhaps insecurities in that regard is what has driven him to increase Islamic influence and numbers in the US and to increase the number of non-whites in general, while diminishing the influence of Christianity.
The one thing that I have long muddled over without finding an answer is why the US has not suffered terrorist attacks in the 14 years since 9/11, other than the handful of lone wolf attacks such as at Fort Hood. There is no way our intelligence can be that good to have thwarted them all. Similarly there is no way that the jihadis haven’t had the desire or ability to pull off major attacks. Why then haven’t we been attacked in a big way when we endlessly wage war against them, even if only for show such as in Syria? All I can do is come back to the layers within layers and wonder what is really happening in the background. That after 7 years in the White House the public still knows virtually nothing about the President’s past is beyond odd. At almost lightening speed he goes from a community organizer (whatever that is) to Senator to President, and in a way that seems like he was handpicked and groomed. How was the documentation of his past all but erased before he arrived on the political scene? Doing so was surely no small task and would have required very powerful people in the background to make that happen while orchestrating his rapid rise. Again layers within layers and much that doesn’t make any sense. My gut says there is a connection but maybe I’ve just got my tinfoil hat on too tight this morning.,November 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm #45530
MB: Good point. I’ve read several people who were at schools the same time as Obama say they couldn’t remember him. I went to school with a high level politician. We all knew he was headed for high political office when we were in our late teens. It becomes more strange when you consider Chicago politics. Nobody moves up that fast, stepping over a long list of people who have “seniority” unless the word comes from on high.
The next question then has to be who is pulling the strings. The real king makers are generally lurking in the shadows. I often thought it was the banksters, but now I am not so sure.
Got to end this to work on my tin foil hat. Should we all work on a standard design for our hats?November 29, 2015 at 1:05 am #45537
“It is impossible to see through the layers within layers and to know what their true goals are. Publicly enemies or at a minimum not aligned with each other but behind the scenes aiding each other. Or allies in public and undermining each other in the background. Oil is just a means to fund whatever their true goals are and for some perhaps the goal is simply money or the political power it buys.
That after 7 years in the White House the public still knows virtually nothing about the President’s past is beyond odd. At almost lightening speed he goes from a community organizer (whatever that is) to Senator to President, and in a way that seems like he was handpicked and groomed. How was the documentation of his past all but erased before he arrived on the political scene? Doing so was surely no small task and would have required very powerful people in the background to make that happen while orchestrating his rapid rise. Again layers within layers and much that doesn’t make any sense. My gut says there is a connection but maybe I’ve just got my tinfoil hat on too tight this morning.” — MountainBiker
“It becomes more strange when you consider Chicago politics. Nobody moves up that fast, stepping over a long list of people who have “seniority” unless the word comes from on high.
The next question then has to be who is pulling the strings. The real king makers are generally lurking in the shadows. I often thought it was the banksters, but now I am not so sure.” — Roadracer
“Don’t bother to examine a folly – ask yourselves only what it accomplishes.” — Ayn Rand
Are various snaky moves going on under the radar, and behind the curtains? Y’ bet yer sweet attitude, they are! What for? To enable somebody(ies) to do rotten things to others, without penalty, that they currently can’t get away with. Exactly what? Does that matter?
“When the rights of even one human being are held in contempt, the rights of all are in danger.” — Robert G. Ingersoll
Exactly who is behind it all? Theories abound. Banksters? Communists? Muslims? All of the above? Probably, but even if you can identify them, you probably can’t do much to them, directly. The precious Liberty we discuss — that which makes a truly human style of life possible — exists, if at all, in the minds of living human beings. Yes, it has been written about, and eloquently so, by thinkers now gone to their rewards. But that’s just to teach and remind living people of what they have yet to gain, what they have inherited, and what they can all too easily lose.
People whose native culture, no matter where experienced and adopted, is one that accepts the idea that Plunder is the proper way for life to operate, that the strong, or more cunning, ought to be allowed to prey on the weaker, or less cunning, will view Liberty with distaste. Protection for the rights of the prey interferes with the desires of the predator. People whose native culture is Production, and the unfettered exchange of value for value, ought to understand the value of their rights. Those two cultural models stand in constant opposition to each other, and often in physical conflict.
What has muddied the intellectual waters in a nation founded on The Rights of Man, is foremost, the acculturation the great majority of them acquire (by design) in government-run schools, wherein they are subjected to the daily object lessons that, (1) defending oneself against attack is a crime, but initiating the attack is not, (2) hard work — studying — often pays off no better than slacking — that cheaters really do prosper. So we are dealing (if at all) with a deliberately dispirited, confused, and often marginally literate, populace, who have been trained to resent the suggestion that there are forces at work in their lives that they haven’t even contemplated.
While I lack the scholarship to evaluate every point he makes, I have found that The Secret Empire, Part I and Part II, by Cushman Cunningham, seems to tie some of the loose ends together. He concludes that there is a grand plan to completely conquer all parts of the planet at once. At least, he has a coherent design for a tinfoil hat.
My tinfoil hat says that those we call banksters, especially the names we have heard, are usually just the agents for more powerful people, most of whose names we may never know, who own the banks, and through them, control international corporations, which often wield more power and central-bank-synthesized $$, than many nation states. Through their agents, they select the candidates from whom we “elect” our heads of state, and legislators. Such people are displeased that the vast social gulf which they once enjoyed, has been all too nearly bridged by technology. There’s not enough distinction between how well they live, and how well we (also) live. After all, though they could easily afford the cost to consume more than we can, they can’t do it without injuring their health. Getting a servant dictator to put us commoners “back on all fours where we belong,” would scratch their itches.
When the enemy is lobbing deadly missiles into your camp, stopping him is more important than identifying him.
November 29, 2015 at 1:18 am #45539
- This reply was modified 4 years, 12 months ago by L Tecolote.
Cry, "Treason!"November 29, 2015 at 1:45 am #45540
L Tecolote, MB, Roadracer, and 74 (and others),
If you want to start researching the web around and under (supporting) Barack Hussein Obama, here’s one place to begin (and it gets much deeper):
The further you dig, the more you’ll shake your head in amazement. The Soviet communist connections are very, very strong (note the quotes from Obama’s supposed autobiography near the end of the above page). But the more you dig, you start making connections between Obama’s mentor (Frank Marshall Davis – selected by Obama’s grandfather) and such names as Valerie Jarrett, David Axelrod, and others. Following is a video in which a much younger Obama directly confirms that “Frank” in his autobiography is indeed Frank Marshall Davis (as mentioned in this video, ALL references to “Frank” in the audio version of the autobiography were deleted – most likely for electoral purposes).
Admittedly and openly biased, there is still some very solid information in the following blog entry about Obama’s little-known history (including some not-so-surprising surprising details of his Illinois/Chicago political history. His claim that Bill Ayers was “just some guy in the neighborhood,” has long since been destroyed – but not in the mainstream press of course.
There is so much more, including the many more links to the Soviet Communist Party by multiple influential people in Obama’s background. Search engines are a great resource. Me? I entirely reject the notion of a tin foil hat, because I can. The historical documentation is there, including Obama’s own words on video and audio. As Howard Kurtz wrote in an August 2008 Weekly Standard article:
As details of Obama’s early political career emerge into the light, his associations with such radical figures as Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Father Michael Pfleger, Reverend James Meeks, Bill Ayers, and Bernardine Dohrn look less like peculiar instances of personal misjudgment and more like intentional political partnerships. At his core, in other words, the politician chronicled here is profoundly race-conscious, exceedingly liberal, free-spending even in the face of looming state budget deficits, and partisan.November 29, 2015 at 1:58 am #45541
P.S. Am I placing Obama or even Soviet communism at the center of it all? No. They are also “mere” players in a much more intricate web about which I wish it was more appropriate to discuss here. Suffice it to say, there is a fundamental evil that persists in this world, and though I suspected something like that beginning as much as two decades ago, I just could not figure out how it was all coordinated. The clarity came during the last week of July and the first week or two of August, 2014. The word “stunning” is not strong enough to describe my reaction to it. But since then, it has simply become more clear, with virtually no significant change in any of the basics. That fundamental evil residing in certain persons, “most of whose names we may never know,” as L Tecolote correctly stated, transcends any one industry or discipline. Bankers? Yes. Scientists? Yes. Economists? Yes – and any other endeavor one might think of in large organizations (whether they be entertainment, finance, government, industry, agriculture, or whatever).November 29, 2015 at 3:45 am #45544
L Tecolote ,
RE: Putin sending troops to wipe out ISIS . They have some Spetsnaz there killing cells , be interesting to see the big push .November 29, 2015 at 6:15 am #45548
Tolik, I’m not quite the Putin fanboi you seem to be, though I consider him a cut above the founders of the Soviet Empire. So far as I know, he hasn’t tried to starve millions to death, nor to operate an Archipelago of Gulags. Still, he’s the head of a powerful State, and as such, must be carefully watched, lest he attempt to expand his empire, or enslave and imprison his citizens, in the same way, and for the same tendencies, as we study the moves of our own Glorious Leader.
As near as I can tell from my reading, Putin’s the fair-haired successor to Yeltsin, successor to Gorbachev, successor to Andropov, successor to Brezhnev … all the way back to Lenin. Somewhere long the line, agents of western banksters got to someone in that line, and with a mixture of luck, skill, and collapse of the old order, got a “different kind of communist” in the seat of power, one who would play the central bank game, and hitch Russia to the same dull plow as the rest of the “Free World.” Only the “Axis of Evil” nations, Iran, North Korea, and now, Zero’s IS, are out of that loop, and with the new “agreement” with Iran, I’m no longer sure of the Ayatollas. Still, if there’s nobody on “the other side,” there’s no contest. Gotta have a villain, even if ya hafta prop ‘im up.
Is Putin pro-Russian? Yes, in a way Zero could never pass for pro-American, not even to the French. Is he a doctrinaire communist? Not if the current Russian economy is part of the answer, though he’s hardly a laissez faire capitalist, either. But his operating style says he’s politico-economically to the right of Zero. Is he doing things to the IS that Zero would never do? Yeah … he has to, in order to (try to) hang on to his naval base in Syria. Will he be able to pull it off? ¿Quién sabe? Given Mr. Limpwrist and his military theatre, it’s probably up to the banksters.
Cry, "Treason!"November 29, 2015 at 2:45 pm #45557
If you look at it , NO European nation has been laissez faire , its pretty much an American practice . I dont believe in complete laissez faire either , Big economies need standards , controls , and regulation . Its like pure libertarianism , if you had it , the country would be just as bad off as its going now , perhaps even worse , as NOTHING would get done on government side .Probably anything in its purest form isnt a good thing , only works with small groups of people , and not very long , at that . Just SayinNovember 29, 2015 at 3:24 pm #45558
All these years later we are still discussing what the Founding Fathers debated, and man has probably debated since the beginning of human existence. The delicate balance of individual freedom versus government control. It seems to me that the human spirit cries out for freedom, but demands that the government do something about “it”. Whatever “it” is going on at the present time.
In the view of our fellow citizens in the US those of us here would be described as Libertarians. While we view many of those crying for the government to step in and take care of everyone as Socialists. With I suspect a large population in the middle saying, “What the Hell are they talking about?”
Is this whole debate just theater to keep the masses amused, because real control is centered in a small group of people in the shadows? They are oblivious to monetary wealth because their wealth is in absolute power to manipulate events to meet their will.
I suspect none of us will ever know the answer and I am not even sure I could ask the right question.November 30, 2015 at 2:36 pm #45570
.November 30, 2015 at 3:27 pm #45572
So Tolik posts a video in which the unbiased informant is an Iraqi, and the report is coming from a State-sponsored outlet (Russia). We can just discount that video because the Iraqi presumably (or at least quite likely) has his own agenda. And RT (Russia) certainly has a dog in this fight, having just had an airliner bombed out of the sky, and one of their own bombers shot down by Turkey. So let’s just forget all about Tolik’s RT video.
Now let’s look at a map. The entire list of border nations around Syria is as follows: Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, and Turkey. So – just where are all those oil trucks destined that the US and coalition partners are bombing recently? One might suggest either Iraq or Turkey – or perhaps across northern Iraq to Iran. Ooops – that largely takes us back to square one, as a significant possibility: Turkey. And Iran or Iraq certainly aren’t nice options either. Iraq would seem an unlikely destination, with the degradation of their infrastructure and chaos within their own borders, and thus the unlikelihood of major refining and reshipment going on from within Iraq. So that narrows it down to Turkey and Iran, most likely – and the distance across Iraq to Iran would tend to favor putting Turkey back up in the top slot of likely destinations for oil coming from Syria (ISIS).
Oh – but Turkey has just struck a deal with the EU for billions of euros in exchange for decreasing the number of Syrian immigrants to Europe – plus a stronger bid to join the EU. Turkey must be a friend, because any friend of the EU must be a friend of ours. And President Obama has spent considerable time visiting with Erdogan, even more evidence of our friendship with Turkey.
Somehow that pill got stuck in my throat, is wedged there, and I seem to be choking on it. So why is it, as much as I distrust Putin, that I still keep coming to the conclusion that what I see on RT holds more water than anything I see on the US networks? This is almost like the first grade drawings that ask students, “What’s wrong with this picture?”, as they’re taught observational skills and critical thinking.
Otherwise, where IS all that oil going? (The US networks seem to be strangely silent on that question even as they report on the bombing of the ISIS oil tankers.)December 1, 2015 at 12:27 am #45579
Perhaps because propaganda has to have an element of truth to it , no matter how small to be effective , and their propaganda has more truth in it than ours does at this time .
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.