September 19, 2015 at 8:41 pm #43918
Also GS on your (we many end up with Elizabeth Warren) Well I know for a fact that would be the end! May bring civil war. She would pass total gun control which would start the war.September 19, 2015 at 10:54 pm #43920
I think Fiorina and too many other people in this country and government are Russophobs , they cant get past decades of cold war propaganda . Putin is not Stalin , and it just shows our arrogance making statements like ” cant tolerate him being commander in chief ” ( of his own nation ) , who do we think we are telling anybody how to act ? Fact is , the US has been an aggressor nation sense the fall of the Soviet Union ( for everybody’s betterment of course ) . Now is the time to actually END the cold war , and make friends with the Russians , they are a capitalist nation , not all that different from our western allies , and fact is , just like in WW2 , we need their help and cooperation , because we have an even bigger enemy in modern times ……..much bigger threat than Hitler and Japan . The combined efforts against Islam are what is needed . Just like in the past , put politics aside to defeat a common enemy . In WW2 , Churchill and Roosevelt respected their interests , even though Stalin was a psycho and they were Communist , why cant we respect their interests now , when they are Capitalist ? Seems that there are problems being created , where there needs not be a problem . Islam is a much bigger and much more real problem than cold war ghosts that dont exist . I think that our government fears any serious joint efforts against a common enemy , might destroy all the effort it has put into propaganda and manipulation of the population . It might make our population look at the Russians more as people , and less like animals , and question things more at home . One thing the government must have to manipulate the people is to create a Bogie man , without that , they are in the spotlight . They dont like that . Unfortunately , Islam is a very real , insidious threat to every people on earth . That is real and current , it is indeed a common enemy .
” The King of the West , and the King of the East shall shake hands , and the King of the Orient will tremble “September 20, 2015 at 12:05 am #43921
Tolik I think you are right but just on that Putin wants to destroy ISIS. But I am not sure O wants the same thing. I still believe he is a Muslim so he likes ISIS more. Also do you really think O likes Capitalism? No his father was a Muslim and a communist, these are all facts. Question: How did the ISIS get into power?September 20, 2015 at 1:18 am #43922
I’m not sure that Putin’s version of capitalism is a great resume-builder. There are chihuahuas and there are great danes, too, but there are few breeds I’d even consider if we ever got another dog – and highly bred, “modern” dogs are not among them, even though they are still called dogs. Give me a Jindo, Canaan dog, or Carolina dog any day over some modern thing they call a dog. So it is with capitalism – there is capitalism and there is capitalism…. And like the dogs, some varieties smell badly, and a few smell very little or not at all.
What’s certain is that Putin is highly nationalistic, and his brand of nationalism includes anyone that speaks Russian for certain, and probably any pocket of people with substantial Russian genetics. He’s assessed the breakup of the Soviet Union to be perhaps the greatest failure or disaster (can’t remember his exact term) of the 20th century. Some interpret that to mean he’d like to go back to the days of trying to finally achieve Soviet world domination. I’m not so certain that’s the case, though I don’t think he’d throw away the opportunity if it presented itself somehow, since the end result would be what I think is his primary motivation: securing Russian interests/territory/populations in a large portion of his part of the world. His obvious willingness to simply invade Crimea and eastern Ukraine clearly indicate his disregard for international norms.
The United States? Oh, you won’t get a lot of argument out of me on that one. I’m one of those kooks that actually thought Ron Paul made sense with his arguments about how we (though we didn’t “deserve” it), should not have been surprised by it. One of my prized books is the full version of Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley. It’s no wonder that Macmillan refused to reprint it even though sales took off after right-wingers discovered what was in it. For example, almost no one today knows that General Schwarzkoph’s father was instrumental in the overthrow of an elected government in Iran in the 50s, working directly for the CIA. All we heard about Schwarzkoph Senior’s background was that he was head of the NJ State Police, and was involved in the LIndbergh baby kidnapping case. We never heard about his extensive assistance in overthrowing a legitimate foreign nation’s government, the installation of a brutal dictator (the Shah), and the training of the Shah’s “police” force. And that’s just one example. I’m plenty old enough to remember the alleged Tonkin Gulf incident, and a whole undeclared war based on “the domino theory.” Etc., etc., etc. (with a tip of the hat to Yul Brenner). So no, you’ll get no argument from me there at all.
That doesn’t change the fact that Putin is a threat, and not to be trusted. Anybody that would cut off gas to portions of Europe and freeze populations is not, by definition, a nice man. And polonium? Equally not nice stuff. IF someone was to sit down and talk with Putin, it would have to be someone with the nerve Kennedy had on the final day of the Cuban missile crisis – someone willing to stare Putin in the eyes and not blink, while “offering” a deal he could not refuse. Certainly Obama isn’t even remotely close to being able to do that, nor does he want to. But I also don’t see that in almost any of the current crop of Republican candidates. Most have already proven by their records in Congress that they will cave in for any number of reasons – particularly the green stuff (the more money, the quicker the cave in, and the more complete the reversal in position).
I have to ask myself what Putin’s motive is in Syria, and despite various theories, I’m certainly not comfortable that I really know. One thing’s for certain, he’s certainly committing significant resources there (despite a domestic budget problem, particularly exacerbated by the plunge in oil prices). He’s building an air base in Syria, sending significant hardware (including things that are clearly designed to target US/NATO aircraft and other assets), etc. Is Assad a nice guy either? Certainly not. But toppling him right now would prove that we learned nothing from Libya and Ghadaffi. Still, ol’ Vlad is not our friend, and for that reason, I truly did like Fiorina’s stand. She never said she’d attack – she simply said that she wouldn’t say a word to Putin. If she threatened, he’d test her. If she immediately beefed up forces as she outlined, without saying a word, she’d be sending a much stronger message. Would he still test her? Probably, at least in very limited ways. But I suspect he’d respect her infinitely more than his buddy in D.C. currently (“Please tell Vladimir I’ll have more flexibility after the election….”). Frankly, I have no desire to go to war with Putin, and would be more than pleased to back significantly out of that region of the world – as long as he did the same on this side of the pond.
We can’t save the world, and we’re not the only ones with responsibility to assist the needy and downtrodden of the world. If others won’t do it, so be it. Let other regions take their own consequences. Do we “owe” western Europe some degree of cooperation (i.e. NATO)? Yes, but only if it’s met with equal cooperation on their parts. I’ll take Ron Paul’s positions any day over most anything I hear out of the majority of the current crop of candidates. If Fiorina turns out to be a major hawk, I’d back off immediately.September 20, 2015 at 3:35 am #43924
All I need to know about Putin comes from three letters, KGB.
I’d like to see him end up like comrade Bobrikov.
It seems fashionable to run down the US again.
Because we have the benefit of hindsight.
But you know what I don’t see, all these whiners and complainers leaving.
If someplace else is so much better, leave.
If not, quit bellyaching and fix the problems of today and quit digging up the past.
There’s learning from past mistakes and there’s beating a dead horse.September 20, 2015 at 3:49 pm #43926
Islam is the enemy of all people on earth , its the crisis of this millennium , a very serious threat , we need to include all nations in a serous plan to combat it , they are willing , are we ? Ukraine and all the other BS is really not our concern . When we have Muslims in our military , killing their own comrades in arms , etc . The priority should be clear to what is the real threat . Putin is getting old , he will go away soon enough , Islam will not if we dont get them involved in operations to get those people under control . Geographically speaking , they could be a big help . The joint space station was a huge success , no reason why joint strikes against the enemy of our time could not be beneficial . Back to Rep woman , its campaign season , they all are going to talk a bunch of smack , and peter out if they get in . No offense to anybody , but I dont want a woman as president , I dont want another ethnic either , its special interest group looking for the highest office to set up shop to me . All the candidates need to be careful about saber rattling , the American people are sick of war . With Islam its going to be unavoidable , but we cant do it alone , and the Europeans have not pulled their weight , the Russians on the other hand , have the strength and ability to pull up the slack . Sending troops to Ukraine , etc . is quite frankly , a waste of money , energy , and lives . Concentrate on the big picture , dont keep handing out speeding tickets while letting the serial killer go free .
Freedom , another question that should be looked at is how is ISIS being so well funded ? Follow the money . Something tells me that our good friends the Saudi’s are somehow involved .
As to what interest they have in Syria ? one is that they need a port in that part of the world . Can Putin be trusted ? No ………can we really be trusted ? No ………….so there you have it . In WW2 we didnt like or trust each other either , but we put that aside to get the job done , it would not have been possible without that . Islam is an even bigger threat , the US cant continue to be the sole provider of world military assistance , we are not going to win over Islam that way , we need to pull in nations that are capable of actually shouldering a large part of the burden . The Europeans so far have not done so .
Another thing to consider , one of the goals of radical Islam being successful may vey well depend on the powers being in conflict with each other . Upon hearing the news of two of the most powerful nations on earth joining up against them , may be a game changer . Few thing could be more frightening a prospect to the ragheads than that .
On the subject of whining and bellyaching : Its called the 1st amendment , you dont like people exercising it , YOU LEAVE ! , go live in North Korea where different views are not allowed . Fact is , the American People and the US Government are NOT the same thing , it needs to be said . Nobody said you have to agree with it .September 20, 2015 at 9:18 pm #43929
First amendment, yup.
I get to use it too.
I ain’t leaving, this is my country, bought and paid for with the blood of friends and family. Patriots one and all with a love for their country that is sadly lacking in many today.
And since I was referencing people like bieber, kanye west and that dufus baldwin, since I know where everyone here stands, even you Tolik, that response seems a little over the top.September 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm #43930
Whirlibird, perhaps it might be helpful for you to go back and look at the thread’s context here, along with what was NOT in your response following my last post. Immediately preceding your post, I agreed with Tolik who’d posted just before me, that there are problems with the US that go way back. Then your post showed up with no indication whatsoever that you were suddenly going outside this Forum discussion to bring in a bunch of “entertainment” industry slimeballs for your blast. It was a logical and reasonable assumption that you were blasting the individuals who’d typed the two posts immediately preceding yours. If you really were referencing Bieber, West, and Baldwin, who’d never come up for discussion here, and with no such indication in your post, it shouldn’t be surprising that both Tolik and I took your post personally. I came very close to a response myself, but decided not to feed what appeared to be personal hostility here. To be honest, had I responded in the way I felt at the time I read your post (before ever seeing Tolik’s), the tone of my response would probably not have been terribly different from his final paragraph – based on what appeared to be have just been directed my way (and his).
Peace.September 21, 2015 at 12:35 am #43938
My family was here in 1689 , it wasnt even a country at that time , related to Ben Franklin by marriage ( his wife’s line ) direct descendant of Francis Marion ( the swamp fox ) , had 24 relatives in the Confederate army , some in both world wars , korea , none in vietnam . For those that want to go in the direction of blood spilled for the nation as a qualifier . Just Sayin
I’m sure many here have similar records . As long as you are a US citizen , thats enough for me , you count !September 21, 2015 at 11:19 am #43940
GS and Tolik, sorry if the sleep deprivation was kicking in.
A couple of long days combined with dealing with libtards for 4 days straight had left me a bit punchy to say the least.September 21, 2015 at 1:20 pm #43945
I’m fine. We’re all on the same team. As they say in the place that Trump might call the illegal hatchery, de nada.September 23, 2015 at 1:03 am #43997
This is what they are saying about their involvement in Syria , believe it or not , truth or not , it makes sense .September 23, 2015 at 5:14 am #43999
What’s very troubling is that in among all the half-truths favorable to him, he’s also got some rather solid truths that are not favorable to us (thank you Hillary and Barack, particularly, but as much as I want to like George W., I simply cannot give him a pass on so many things). We at least had stability in Libya, and at least tentative security of large amounts of very scary weapons under Ghadaffi. We didn’t even have a sham “consent of Congress” to go in there, let alone a declaration of war. Iraq? Sorry, but I never believed we should have gone in there the 2nd time. If Daddy Bush didn’t see fit to take out Saddam the first time, the justification to go in the 2nd time was just not there. Al Qaeda wasn’t there in 2003, yet we were supposedly going in because of 9/11. And people bought that explanation! Afghanistan? That operation far exceeded the mission of going after Osama, and we DID proceed to do nation building. We didn’t learn from the Soviet experience there either. Then we created a vacuum in Iraq when we pulled out altogether, and badly mismanaged things in Afghanistan under Obama as well. And Putin is at least speaking truth when he reminds people that refugees are coming from all over, not just Syria, and Russia can’t be blamed for most of the other sources (unless we want to blame them for the impossible task of not cleaning up Afghanistan in the 80s).
Very, very interesting video, Tolik. But in many respects it also doesn’t surprise me a bit.
[Note to moderators: Perhaps this should be moved to one of the discussions on the migration crisis (such as “Prepare to be overrun”). It would seem to fit there far better than under The Donald’s gun policy.]September 23, 2015 at 12:06 pm #44002
Yes it does make sense Tolik. GS, very well stated. Removing the brutal dictators such as we have in a number of countries has only made things far worse for the citizens of those countries and increasingly the rest of us too.September 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm #44005
Like Putin or Hate him , I realize he is a politician , BUT , I think its important to forget WHO is saying it , and listen to WHAT is being said about issues , when you do that , it makes things much more clear on certain issues . We already know what our own media is saying , but its important for free thinking people to also hear the other side . He makes sense too much of the time , and his reasoning more often than not is much more reasonable as to WHY they are doing some of the things they are doing , vs our irrational knee jerk reactions to situations and bogus explanations . Dont be the mushroom , hear both sides and decide for yourselves .
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