Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
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  • #9943
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7
    #9955
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    This is something I beat to death for several years. Finally I figured out I would learn to use alternate fuels for a internal combustion type engine. Still will be using solar and wind but some days you need an engine.
    I will use small engines fired with gas from burning wood. This url will take you to a website of a person that is making his own “gasifiers.”

    http://northernselfreliance.com/biomass/woodgas/getting-started/

    You can build your own from about anything (from boilers/hot water tanks to fire extinguishers) but is a try and
    learn process.

    Robin

    #9990
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    chester, thank you will read.

    #35888
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    So this brings me to the question: We are required to store fuel in 5 gal cans and no more than 25 gal max per that article. Why are aviation fuels, race fuels, and even various marine fuels allowed to be kept/transported in 55 gal drums? Why is it safer for commercial transport and storage of gasoline than a homeowner? Even ranchers are allowed to use 55 gal drums for transport and storage if they refill at a Co-op station. ….

    I don’t get this one.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #35904
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    I would need to access the NFPA Codes to be certain but I suspect the ranchers and others you obsreve are not in compliance. Flammable liquid in commercial settings require storage cabinets and grounding for dispensing. There is a limit to the number of cabinets allowed in one fire division (3) if I remember correctly, separated by something like 25 feet.

    Anyway free standing barrels in the open are not in compliance. In the past nfpa 30 allowed wooden cabinets constructed of 1″ thick boards. Flammable liquid storage rooms can be constucted as well. The room required positive ventilation, vapor proof electrical equipment, grounding for the barrels.

    I found NFPA 30 in a pdf but the link is hard to post from my tablet.

    #35908
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    I understand that “compliance” is “mandatory.” I just don’t understand why it is “safe” for some some industries to transport fuel in certain manners where other groups are not. Another example: if you are FEMA and use DOT rated drums it is considered “safe” to transport gasoline on flat bed trucks disaster or not – Joe Citizen is told that this is not “safe.”

    When researching ways to store gasoline, the container manufacturer I spoke with offered “marine” drums to be in compliance with fuel storage regulations (if at sea). Again, it makes me wonder what is or is not truly “safe” with regard to fuel storage.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #35909
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>sledjockey wrote:</div>So this brings me to the question: We are required to store fuel in 5 gal cans and no more than 25 gal max per that article. Why are aviation fuels, race fuels, and even various marine fuels allowed to be kept/transported in 55 gal drums? Why is it safer for commercial transport and storage of gasoline than a homeowner? Even ranchers are allowed to use 55 gal drums for transport and storage if they refill at a Co-op station. ….

    I don’t get this one.

    I can keep a 100 gal transfer tank of diesel or kerosene in the back of my pickup and no one will say a word. I think the recent MTA accident shows the hazards of gasoline. It may have been an accident but it was more like suicide. An accidental suicide.

    #35916
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    Brulen is correct. Gasoline has true potential for disaster. A small static electric spark has enought heat energy to ignite vapors. The more of it you have the greater potential for a large fire & explosion. Vapors burning back to a 55gl drum would be something not to be around. When a gallon or two is accidentally ignited filling a tank, the person involved usually is critically injured or dies.

    If I wanted to have bulk gasoline stored, having it delivered to a 500 gallon tank designed for that purpose would be the safest method. Now days those tanks cost a lot due to the built in spill containment. It would be prudent to it keep away from buildings.

    If you have the space you might get away with a storage shed 100′ away from other blds for drums. I would want the best pumps designed for flammables and use of grounding straps.

    #35918
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I agree with Brulen and 74 on this. Even the five gallon stored next to another five gallon can be a big problem. Here in Florida with the heat storing a lot of gas can start a fire very easy. I have a five gallon stored in the garage and another five gallon stored in a storage outside the house. Can’t store to much more.

    #35921
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Just so I get my question fully answered, I am repeating back what was posted. Not for argument, but for understanding:

    Gasoline is dangerous enough that only residential regulations have caught up with the standards that should be used regarding storage. Aviation fuel storage, marine fuel storage, government fuel storage all SHOULD be regulated to the same degree that private citizens are regulated.

    Is that what everyone is saying? Again… Not to argue, but to fully undstand what you guys are saying.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #35927
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled, I’m not familiar with the marine storage practices your making reference to, regardless of the code requirements it comes down to how much risk will you take for a measure of benefit. I doubt there is any code enforcement, at least untill something goes wrong.

    Gasoline is akin to black powder. How much are you willing to live with in the room next door? I wouldn’t mind having a lot of it, just not somewhere it will knock down my house if it goes off.

    We all take risk, usually we don’t measure the cost versus benefit ratio. A person could pull out in front of other cars everyday and make the other driveer brake. That person might not get hit for years. The lives of everyone in both cars are at risk for 3 or 4 seconds of “saved time” If one day the other driver doesn’t brake lives are ruined trying save 4 seconds of travel time.

    You can have as much gas in the garage as there is space to hold it, but at what cost if things go wrong.

    #35936
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    One way I store gas is in my boat, has 100 gallon tank and I can park it in my house. No trouble with that. So I always have gas there for the taking.

    #35938
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    So, from what I am hearing thus far:

    It is all dangerous, but we are conditioned to believe that one method is more safe than another. If I had a boat with a 100 gallon tank sitting next to my house it would be safe. If I had 2 55 gallon drums in my back yard, in their own structure and as far from everything else in my yard as possible it would be a recipe for death and destruction.

    Again, I just don’t understand the double standard and am REALLY trying to understand where the risk is actually applied. The double standard is what is killing me because there is no specific evidence that applies in all situations. I am wanting to store fuel safely, but I can’t find specifics that apply uniformly so I can make a truly educated decision on how to store it.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #35940
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I agree it is all bull and another way of controlling us. How many boats do you see parked next to a house with a tank with 100 gallons of gas?

    #35947
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    I did see some 1/2 arsed attempt at explaining the reasoning, just now on a video….

    What they said is: Fuel tanks in vehicles are grounded (bull-pucky – many boats are not) and thus reduce the chance of an eletrostatic charge to build up. The rubber of the tires also helps to insulate the boat from buildng up a charge (what about in the water which is a great conductor?). In this guy’s assessment, if I were to take the drums and put them on a rubber mat and then run wires via clamps to a copper rod stuck in the ground, this would mitigate the potential for the drums to explode. Still wondering how the gas vapors being either fully vented to the outside or completely contained would ignite the entire drum without lots of “what ifs.”

    I really am just trying to dig through the misinformation and mis-applied-science to find the pointed risks during storage. In my current living situation, my family and I would only last a short time if the SHTF and violence errupted in the streets. Our only legitimate plan is to find a safer location. I don’t want to get into my plan. I am trying to figure out a way to store the fuel I would need to get to my bug out location. Sifting through all the propaganda regarding fuel storage is actually very difficult and there is a painfully obvious double standard regarding this issue.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

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