December 11, 2014 at 5:26 pm #31743
Okay, clean up the coffee that just got spilled.
First let me say, I like wheelguns. They are fun and normally reliable and at least reasonably accurate.
However a couple that have come across my bench in the last week have me laughing at least a little at those who say that revolvers are utterly infallible. I have more examples but these are the two most recent.
The first, a very nice little Chiefs Special (S&W Model 60) snubbie.
It came in for a heavy cleaning (where did all that dried blood come from?) and because the cylinder was almost impossible to open, and it was loaded.
Causation of the sticky opening? Rusty spring (stainless gun but not the springs) and a broken pin.
A little 1/4″ pin that holds the ejector rod retaining plunger in place up front had broken in half.
Something as simple as a broken pin could have gotten the owner killed if they had needed to reload the gun.
And secondly, a S&W “X”-frame .500 Magnum.
No I am not going to test fire it, sorry.
But it has issues also.
The hand doesn’t always advance the cylinder when the trigger is pulled.
The hand spring is defective (weak) out of the box. The gun may have 20 rounds through it, so it certainly isn’t worn out.
Now granted it didn’t take me long to fix either, but I have the parts and years of working on these guns to my credit. Your average shooter, the gun is out of service, hence them bringing them to me.
As a quick aside, I have seen more wheelguns lately with timing and lockup problems. I won’t list brands specifically, but it’s heavily ‘bullish’.
Now one Smith has countless rounds through it, the other is essentially new.
Both out of commission because of an $8 (or less) part.
I have seen many broken guns over the years, and I hate to say it, but the ratio to wheelguns to semi-auto’s has been about 50-50. I’ve broken both types myself also. But cheap wheelguns tend to fail more than cheaper auto’s, comparable prices of course.
But as I said in another thread, pick the best quality you can afford, you’ll have less problems.December 11, 2014 at 6:56 pm #31745
The 460es is a more versatile gun than the 500. I don’t think I’ll fire mine often enough with 454 casull to ever wear it out. Like any machine it will self destruct if it doesn’t get maintained. Of course S&W doesn’t tell you how many rounds before this happens but I think they know. Say maybe its 100-200 rounds before parts failure. I know at close range its a great penetrator on bears and dragons. Lots of detructive potential in the right hands. A good tool when the need arises. I don’t push the envelope and shoot more than I need too. The best practice is strength in the hands exercise. 460 extremely short & loud. lolDecember 11, 2014 at 7:43 pm #31752
Simple to use but not very simple technically.December 11, 2014 at 9:56 pm #31769
I’ve read the 460 can be cut for moon clips so it can fire the 45 acp and its varients.December 11, 2014 at 11:58 pm #31778
I believe the concept of infallibility is with properly functioning revolvers. Mostly because the ammo is preloaded and as long as the ammo fits into the gun it will generally go bang.
Where with a semi auto in perfect condition changing ammo type could cause failure to feed and stove pipe issues.
I never heard or read where anyone said revolvers are impossible to break. In fact the complexity of the action almost demands that they will have breakages.December 12, 2014 at 2:23 am #31792
I think to much dry firing is probably the cause of most parts breakage. But then i’m not a gunsmith. I’ve only had one revolver jam on me and that was a NAA mini. The barrel failed to turn. All those tiny little parts. I decided to sent it back to the watch factory to have it fixed. It did get dirty and I could have done a better job cleaning. My bad I guess.December 12, 2014 at 6:15 pm #31823
Good to see this, it verifies what my gunsmith buddy says as well.
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumDecember 12, 2014 at 9:31 pm #31826
Bullish, i see what you did there
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>I think to much dry firing is probably the cause of most parts breakage. But then i’m not a gunsmith. I’ve only had one revolver jam on me and that was a NAA mini. The barrel failed to turn. All those tiny little parts. I decided to sent it back to the watch factory to have it fixed. It did get dirty and I could have done a better job cleaning. My bad I guess. – See more at: http://community.shtfschool.com/forums/topic/the-myth-of-revolver-reliability/#post-31823
Something as sim
I am a gunsmith. And I know what the OP means about certain guns having certain issues. The way i look at it, you kinda have 3 levels of quality among manufacturers, and the really well-made revolvers did just fine. So I don’t agree that all revolvers are garbage, and I’ll own one myself when i can afford it.
Go watch some AGI videos with Uncle Bob, and you’ll get a feel for which guns are worth trusting your life with.
upward and onwardDecember 12, 2014 at 10:24 pm #31827
S&W redesigned the crane and retention system for the big bore guns. The crane is the weakest point on most revolvers. The rearward forces bends the crane back and it pivots downward. This put pressure on the center pin and retention hole. A lot of S&W 357, 41, & 44’s have elongated center pin holes because of this force. On your gun that has been fixed. I would expect that you could shoot a few thousand rounds before you see significant wear.December 13, 2014 at 1:13 am #31842
Need to get WhirliBird to do a presentation on revolvers, 44 Magnum and UP!
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumDecember 13, 2014 at 5:37 am #31859
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>undeRGRönd wrote:</div>Need to get WhirliBird to do a presentation on revolvers, 44 Magnum and UP!
Only ifi don’t have to shoot them, my wrists aren’t up to the heavies anymore.December 13, 2014 at 9:36 am #31864
SMITH AND WESSON’S BEHEMOTH MAGNUMS
Very informative article about the X frame.December 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm #31871
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>74 wrote:</div>Brulen,<br>
S&W redesigned the crane and retention system for the big bore guns. The crane is the weakest point on most revolvers. The rearward forces bends the crane back and it pivots downward. This put pressure on the center pin and retention hole. A lot of S&W 357, 41, & 44′s have elongated center pin holes because of this force. On your gun that has been fixed. I would expect that you could shoot a few thousand rounds before you see significant wear.
Not quite, Newtonian law.
The frame moves in recoil, but the cylinder being a large mass attempts to stay in place. This is what causes center pin damage and hole elongation.
That and shooters doing the Alan Ladd cylinder flip to close the gun.
The redesign is to try and give more support/strength to combat this. Its not so much a fix as an attempt to improve what’s there.December 13, 2014 at 3:47 pm #31873
Have a picture on the computer, somewhere, I will try to find and post.
Top strap of a large frame wheel gun blown off! Seems when the round
under the hammer went off it cooked off rounds on both sides. Still
trying to understand that but think it was the maker of the round.
RobinDecember 13, 2014 at 3:52 pm #31874
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