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  • #17096
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Interesting video.

    The Homestead, Prepper Myth #3

    #17103
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Well, I agree with whomever this guy is that it is not necessary for someone to have a ‘homestead’/i.e.farm to increase their chances of survival, come what may necessarily (so much depends on what happens, how skilled the person is, and so many other factors)…and I agree that it is not a life many would choose either because it is completely foreign to them; or well known to them in the past and they know all too well the work involved.

    I do disagree with this guy that a homestead/farm, even a small one in a small community, is not defensible and a poor choice…and his implication you’d be better off in a gated, well armed community….kind of like Leopard describes. His initial reason he gives about distance to medical care for basic health emergencies (heart attacks etc) is just not well reasoned. In most SHTF sort of situations does he think large town/city hospitals are going to be functioning and well supplied – much less there will be ambulance drivers willing to risk their lives to come get you, even in a city, and take you there? Our tiny community has a fairly large rescue squad with about 12 EMT’s and they even go on rescue calls by horseback into the mountains. We also have about 7 doctors in a 2 mile radius which we know from a community skills assessment we made. If big SHTF and someone called an ambulance for me and it got there – would I willing/knowingly let them take me to a hospital in a city? hell no. Must just be my time to go.

    Now, remote locations I personally would not want to live at, miles and miles of current civilization. Mostly because when some supply lines do eventually open up you’d be so darn far from them – how you going to get there and back – unless your retreat is so, so very well stocked for a very long time.

    The sad fact of the matter is that the number of working farms in the US diminishes every year. The average age of the farmers that are left is late 50’s and they are retiring or selling off their farms every year that goes buy. The majority of the working farms in this country (as opposed to S Africa and Argentina examples he gave) are run by huge agro-business with mono crops. The bad guys and starving little kids he talks about aren’t going to find much there. Even around me, yes there are farms – but mostly hay and cattle – maybe a soybean or cornfield. Much of the land, sadly sits unused and empty. Easier and cheaper to put it into conservation easement, reduce your property taxes and do nothing with it. Except for one road view I think I have pretty much finished taking care of, if you passed by my place you would not think you would find any ‘farm’ here.

    I think his generalizations are a bit colored…haha…but so are mine I suppose. The life I lead is not the life for everyone by any means. And I do agree that to buy a homestead just because you think you would somehow be ‘safer’ and better able to provide for yourself needs a lot more thought and investigation.

    In my case, the elevation of my place and the abundant water had just as much to do with my choice of property as with my desire to have more space about me and pursue hobbies I enjoy anyway. My particular bias is towards more serious natural disasters making other SHTF scenarios that much worse.

    In the end, I would much rather leave the earth surrounded by mother nature than holed up in some windowless, fortified fortress surrounded by a ton of my fellow humans. To me that would be like building myself my own prison. I feel whomever runs the world put me on earth in this time frame, and lead me here to this area, and here I shall stay – or here abouts. I am not so attached to things and even my place that I would not leave it and move out into the rolling hills where it might be safer for a time.

    #17104
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    At the top of Texas things are the reverse. Folks are coming here and starting small farms. A farmer’s market opened this year in a town to my west about 1/2 hr away.
    Robin

    #17106
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Robin – yes we have small farms starting but the established large ones over 50 acres? no – although many 50-100 acre ones have converted to wineries.

    #17109
    Profile photo of Gentolman
    Gentolman
    Survivalist
    member2

    Pretty good video and a lot to consider. To be close to a hospital is normally to be in a high population center. There are always so many bad people in a high population center. Also many do not want to believe it but FEMA and HLS have plans in place here in the USA. The first people collected and bused to relocation centers (work camps) will be from high population centers. I think this itself is a threat. A regulation was passed not too long ago where FEMA gave itself the power to collect all the food for redistribution and to leave you with only a 3 days supply for your family. This is a socialist idea where the people who have not prepared themselves in life or for disaster can take a share from people who worked hard and planned. If I skip vacations with my family for 10 years and have a 5 year supply of food packed away, FEMA can take all my food and leave my family with a 3 day supply. I have to share with the same people who lived the good life and took vacations and drove fancy cars while my family was more frugal with our assets. I don’t know exactly how FEMA will perform it’s mission but if I was trying to achieve their goals, I would let the situation get out of hand for weeks and let the mobs kills each other and let the crazies do horrible things to good people. I would then arrive and tell everyone I was there to take them to a safe place with food and warmth and shelter provided. How many people would fight against that and how many parents would not jump at the chance to save themselves and their children. I think these camps would be little more than prisons with people having to meet work quotas and I think there will be many sickos and bullies running everything. I never would have thought my government was capable of these things until the events of the past few years and the shift in the political situation. It will not be safe in the population centers and it will not be safe on the homesteads. I think it will be hard for good people to trust and work together but I do NOT think it will be hard for gangs and criminals and sickos and wanna be warlords to work together. It would be better for small townships to have a plan and that still does not protect them from how large some of the gangs will get or from our own government agencies.

    #17111
    Profile photo of Gentolman
    Gentolman
    Survivalist
    member2

    I agree with a lot you said tweva. I wonder if the grid went down how long the hospitals would operate. Generators run our of fuel after a short time. How many medical staff would show up for work and leave their families unattended. I think within a few weeks the hospitals would just be places of death and would be looted. Everyone who could not take care of themselves would be gone. The elder care facilities would be abandoned by their staff. The helpless would be abandoned and die very quickly. One way a homestead could help would be to grow and stock up a large supply of food by preserving through canning, smoking and dehydrating foods at a very low cost compared with buying mountain house freeze dried foods. In this day of anti gun people, how many people are even prepared to defend themselves against intruders. There is no good answer so I guess we should just each prepare ourselves with knowledge and prep the best we can.

    #17112
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    In case anyone cares, one of the hospitals in New Orleans was besieged after Katrina hit.

    Yep. Besieged. Swarms of… erm.. “inner city yoofs” literally besieged the hospital in search of drugs. The doctors, nurses and remaining patients retreated to the roof, where they barricaded themselves. I believe they were eventually rescued via helicopter, the hospital itself abandoned to the heathens..

    Another group of “yoofs” hijacked an ambulance in an effort to obtain drugs. I distinctly remember the yoofs facedown on the hot pavement after some of the few remaining NOLA cops stopped their joyriding…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #17113
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457

    Who he is is Fernando Aguirre. Aka FerFAL.
    He literally wrote the book on the Argentine collapse.

    Looking back through history, one can also see that he has been correct,
    Mel Tappan, the father of the survivalist movement died on his farm/ranch because he was too far from a hospital.

    Everyone seems to be somehow ending up at the worst case scenario, total collapse. But what happens if it doesnt happen as such, but the slow grind continues?

    Looking at South Africa which was previously mentioned, as well as in the video, one can see how those farms and isolated locations become deathtraps.

    The same is happening in zimbabwe, has been for decades.

    Throughout history when the going got tough, many went to the cities, because you still need money in everything short of total collapse to survive. And the cities had jobs that the sticks didn’t.

    I’m not saying that the city is better than the sticks, but depending on the situation, it may well be. And until the worst happens, there isn’t a one of us who doesn’t need to do something to get by and to do that, one at least has to get things from and to the city at a minimum.

    #17116
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    In a shtf event the very idea that you will receive care at a hospital is ludicrous. They can hardly respond to current levels of emergencies. When there are whole cities having riots with wanton destruction, hospital staff will be caught in the middle of the chaos. Much of the staff will not make it to work to help or they will flee the cities. Hospitals will be over whelmed with the numbers of critically injured.

    #17117
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    FerFal make lot of sense ,and he is talking from his own experience, he is been there, so lot of good points.
    But important thing is that there are levels of SHTF, and SHTF that he went trough (economic collapse of his country) is different from full scale collapse (that I went trough) so advices are different.

    When real SHTF I am gonna go home from my job, I am gonna say “forget it” to everything, and go home to take care for my family. Police gonna do same, and everyone else. It is full scale. There is no law to protect you in the city, it is quite opposite, you are gonna be safer far from the town.

    #17119
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Well Selco hit the nail on the head. That’s the problem with a lot of commentary and advice that is now everywhere and that readers and participants on sites have to remember.

    There are different levels of SHTF scenarios right? What one person, in one particular country, in one particular area, with one particular background sees as being or believes is a SHTF or will be ‘the’ SHhittingTF is so very different from even the person sitting or living right next to him/her. That is my only problem with the FerFal man’s video.

    Humans don’t like the unknown. So, we draw parallels, extrapolate, wonder, think and try and predict the future. Nothing wrong with that at all. But for me, I realized a few years ago that I was driving myself crazy and wasting a lot of energy constantly trying to digest all the news of the day and the various viewpoints and predictions and parallel drawing to see my way ahead. I decided to just calm down, spend more time listening to that little voice inside/(‘gut feelings’? perhaps) that has always seemed to stand me in good stead; and less to everything else.

    Am I prepared for all the many, many scenarios that may arise in the near or distant future? Absolutely not. Will I ever be? Hell no. Do I worry the gangs and mobs may overrun my little corner of the world here in this tiny, tiny community? Somewhat in the darker hours, but it does not keep me awake at night, right or wrong. My bigger fear, personally, is Mother Nature’s wrath. In my opinion she is a breathtakingly more powerful instrument of God’s will and thus scarier than any gang or mob could ever be. I read about the concerns that the poles may shift in the not to distant future- even a small amount – and imagine what that would do – and that idea, little talked about, is something that would truly be a SHTF! In the end you have to do the best you can and live your life being the best version of a good human that you can manage.

    OK – my rant for the day.

    People who consider buying/moving to a ‘homestead’ (itself a loosely defined term really) without consideration of how to support oneself are just not logical people. It is only common sense that the farther you go from larger concentrations of humanity (the market for whatever skills, services or products you will trade – no for fiat money – to purchase what you need to survive/live) the harder it will be for most to develop a fiat money income stream. But, with the internet it has opened up more possibilities for people that are not independently wealthy or have no debt, own their own place and have stores and savings. But eventually, as whirlibird says, yes you will (or your family will) need stuff only to be found closer to where there are more people. I found a property years ago I fell in love with completely, but the idea of what it would take to go and fetch items I felt I would eventually need and not be able to produce myself even now, much less say if there was no electricity/gas or even just a large snow storm? A big no – for me. James Wesley, Rawles? Not a problem – for him.

    I think if many of my fellow humans that see all the unpleasantness/impending chaos – you pick – on the horizon and can visualize all the various scenarios would spend an equal amount of time in quiet, listening to that ‘little voice’ or whatever equal to time spent in speculation of the future – what is best for you and the best path to achieve that would be a lot more clear and people’s souls a bit more calm.

    PS – even now I would not let someone take me to our local hospital. It is known to be a MURSA factory. You survive whatever put you there only to die from MURSA. If they couldn’t or wouldn’t take me to a different hospital farther away with a better history? Unhuh. And, don’t you think Mel Tappan knew the chances he would die at his retreat were fairly good since he was farther away than most from a hospital. Whirlibird, didn’t he die so young because he had become obese, wheelchair-bound which all ended in congestive heart failure? He surely knew his prognosis and could have done something about it if he had wanted to right? Sorry for long post. Done now.

    #17124
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    tweva, for me it will have to be for now the city. My 19 year old is in Florida International University or FIU which is 2 miles away and she is studying medicine there so I need to be close for now. If I see that SHTF and the grid goes down then if the car still works we may leave to Key West were my sister lives, Key West is a small town and people there will not run out of food since there is more fish then you can handle.

    That will be my plan if I am able to get there. Here at home I do have enough food for 10 people for about 1 1/2 and a hand well pump, about 300 gallons of water stored and you know that it rains a lot here so I have it setup with rain barrels. I have many fruit trees and my garden it getting better. Storing a lot of seeds. I since need to save for the solar system.

    Home security is also getting better. The house is getting all new hurricane impact windows which are very hard to break, Can withstand a 2×4 going at 150 miles an hour and the 2×4 only breaks a small hole but the window stays and doesn’t come down. For additional security I will add to all the windows the old steel shutters which are impossible to break. This will make the house secure to a point. The house has two fireplaces so I too am saving wood right now. Inside I have a gas range so am saving propane gas tanks for 2 years worth of cooking.

    Well I will add more later to this post.

    #17125
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Tweva, I agree with you on many levels here.

    As I recall Tappan had health issues that led to the problems you listed. He took a roll and came up snake eyes.
    But he was also betting on eminent collapse all those years ago, which hasn’t happened. Just the slow grind.

    I’m not saying that FerFAL is the only one correct, nor am I saying total collapse is the only threat or problem.
    I take what everyone says, look at it objectively and go from there.
    Our host Selco puts forth a great deal of information, which should be digested carefully.
    But so does FerFAL, so does Ragnar Benson, so did Tappan, they were and are all products of their experiences. As are we all.

    Some only like to see the worst case scenario, planning for that and neglecting to live today. Would I like to have a fully stocked BOL? Of course. But while I’m selling one house and buying another, that’s not gonna happen. A travel trailer to bug-out in may happen fairly soon, but that only covers certain situations. The plus? We like to camp.

    Everyone seems to be so focused on the total collapse, what may happen that they seem to be ignoring what is happening and has been happening for decades.

    I know, I used to be the same way. Then it hit me one day, my money was worth less, I was getting farther and farther behind, it wasn’t adding up, literally.

    While I can rub two dry words together and have a fire, that doesn’t make the mortgage payment. It doesn’t keep the bank from taking the farm before the total collapse happens. One has to live today as well as after.

    Even Selco survived, much to our benefit, that year in hell. But it did improve eventually even there. A reasonable facsimile of normal life returned. Same as after the Great Depression. Same as after the wars.

    Where the opposite is true, is zimbabwe, and South Africa for example. Short term plans, a couple months or even years of food are hardly enough for the decades of grind suffered.

    Once so far down the rabbit hole, it is nigh on impossible to crawl out. Especially when you have nothing left.

    As I said, before I rambled or maybe during, or perhaps in a previous post, we have to plan for what is happening not just our pet dream/nightmare/fantasy.

    #17128
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Whirlibird wrote:</div>I’m not saying that FerFAL is the only one correct, nor am I saying total collapse is the only threat or problem.

    Oh I know that Whirlibird! And I do appreciate the video as well. I had heard and probably read some of Ferfal’s stuff too at one point. He just seemed to make some blanket statements or inferences that I think, for someone in his position where so many people are looking to him for ‘answers’, not always able or willing to clearly just digest the viewpoint and then think for themselves, he could have been a bit more careful in his statements. Frightened or nervous people often seem to sometimes take stuff someone they believe knows more than they do as gospel. Sad to say. I was drawn to Selco’s site and his course, principally because he frankly states that this is just what he can say from what he went through and he himself is still learning/digesting stuff/others views even now.

    The issuing of keeping one foot in both worlds is something that is rarely talked about by people who prepare for various future scenarios with some unknown time frame. It can be such a difficult path to walk,and achieve balance. I wish someone, maybe Selco?, would address this more – talk about it more to people – especially people who have only recently been jolted into looking around, thinking ahead and popping their head out of the sand. It can be a daunting, overwhelming, scarey place to find yourself.

    The reason I posted the link to Chris Martenson’s video on Peak Prosperity was 1) I am a positive person by nature so always appreciate when something starts with that intention but more, 2) because of the simple way he explains for people about exponential curves. I can not for the life of me recall the law of physics that relates to this and he doesn’t bring it up (ha – mention physics and that scares the crap out of people alone!). Anyway, you have spoken about the ‘slow grind’ before. I totally agree – BUT, I see the signs of ‘quickening’ all around me – in so many spheres – it can not be ignored – for me. It is the exponential curve (he likens it to a hockey stick in shape) that does account for this (as does the darn law of physics I can’t remember!).

    If life has taught me one thing it is that everything changes – nothing stays the same for any length of time. And, since one of the laws of physics that Einstein proved was that time, itself, is relative….what may appear to be a very long, slow grind…will nonetheless, – change. Chris believes the exponential curve effect accounts for the ‘quickening’ of events on so many levels in the world we see today. So, for me myself, this struck a nerve with me and explained so much. I like to delude myself that I am a practical, logical mind. Ipersonally do believe that the slow grind will blow up eventuallly much faster and quicker than people may expect because they are used to it going on and on. the relativity thing at work. That is not going to be much fun.

    Mr. Tappan did a great service for many people – and his work still does. I think people that are able to look into the future and ‘see the sights’ have the biggest problem of all in keeping a foot in the day to day – the future is just much more clear and real to them. Buckminster Fuller was another such mind I can think of.

    Anyway…break over…back to work. Thanks Whirlibird. Always enjoy your posts!

    #17129
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    Agree.

    Looking into the many opinions is great if you want to do some important job, and survival is definitely serious job.
    I never consider myself some kind of guru or expert who know the best, I just have some experience that I am willing to share, but I am also trying to keep my mind open to other folks opinions, and there are definitely good knowledge out there.

    We are all here to learn.
    Anyway topic of survival in urban or rural settings is one of the topics where discussion (and pros and cons ) will go forever, but that does not mean that is nothing more to say or hear (learn) about it.

    So thank you all for contributing!

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