February 24, 2016 at 1:15 am #47486
Do I expect that gang members from nearby areas would be out “working” if the electricity went out? In a heartbeat! First to go would be food and electronics, and drugs – we’ve seen that repeated in city after city when law and order break down. The homies would rather stick together than go all out for themselves individually. Once the food is gone on the grocery store shelves, and the electricity doesn’t come back on to run all their shiny new electronics, they’ll be out looking again. We see it every year in our neighborhood – a ways from theirs, but still obviously on their map. Suddenly on Halloweeen we have vehicles cruising up and down the streets in this area – NONE of which leads into major thoroughfares due to our location away from the city center, as well as street patterns that actually somewhat isolate this neighborhood. And it becomes quite clear, quite quickly, that many of our “visitors” are not following kids on their trick-or-treat runs up and down the street. We all know we’re being watched, and the sudden uptick in crime in the past couple of years has not gone unnoticed of course. We make note of “repeat offenders” (multiple passes on any one street), and also make sure that enough of “us” are seen out looking back (and looking at license plates). One neighbor even had a gun stuck out a window and pointed at him, not too far down the street from us while simply out “watching.”
So do I have any feeling of calm protectedness in this area if things go downhill quickly for more than a day or so? Absolutely none. The dynamics are very different from rural or sparsely populated areas. And the current dynamics are also very different from what they were even here when we first moved back decades ago. Fortunately, several of us are getting to know (and trust) each other more and more, know more about what each others’ capabilities are, etc. Despite being out a ways from city center, we’re still living in a reasonably closely populated neighborhood (nothing larger than about ½ acre), even though it’s disconnected from other residential neighborhoods. And even at my age (and ligament/joint capabilities), I believe there are at least three other neighbors’ within a decent baseball throw that I feel reasonably certain would be out and about in a heartbeat if an emergency arose – and they’d be armed if they perceived even a possible need. I continue to develop those relationships. Requests to borrow things, like ramps to load a truck for example, are GLADLY accommodated. And I look for similar opportunities to request easy things of them in return – more for relationship purposes than because of current need. Cooperation breeds friendship, friendship breeds trust, and trust breeds increased security. As noted by others here, that’s part of wise prepping.February 24, 2016 at 1:20 am #47487
Whirli, Wyoming is about as remote and empty a place as you are going to find in the continental US. You won’t have the same refugee problems as many other places, but Metro Denver and its 3 million people is only a tank of gas away from a good chunk of WY. They wouldn’t all head north of course but some will.
In the Northeast it is a very different story. The Boston to DC corridor has almost 50 million people. Half of those folks are within a tank of gas from VT so the Golden Horde is prominent in my thinking. As with my Denver example they wouldn’t all head to VT, but some would.
The situation will differ from region to region, but if the grid goes down nationwide, there will be problems everywhere. Some areas will be better or worse than others but all will have issues. Population density, climate, time of year, local resources, local culture, and ethnic/racial/religious mix will all be factors.
A complicating factor early on is that it will be difficult for any of us to fully know what is going on if the grid is down. I suppose we’d pull out our battery operated emergency radios to find operating radio stations that have real data, or perhaps turn to local ham radio operators. Assuming we do get good info quickly, most in our communities aren’t going to be as quick on the uptake of grasping the situation when the reality is beyond anything they’ve ever contemplated. For those reasons, there would certainly be a window when folks do stay put waiting for everything to go back to normal.February 25, 2016 at 8:07 pm #47511
buying enough property this year i can take out a bridge and put in draw bridge… steep canyon fast cold water…other side protected by major river fast flowing and deep 1/2mile wide only other land entrance is through old deactivated logging roads about 60 km of them if you know exactly right trail and only available during summer months. other than atv or like equipment no way you can get through even a tracked vehicle wont make it without extreme road repairs all the culverts have been removed for over a decade. crossing hte major river in winter is tricky at best have lost dogs who have wandered out so for humans good luck.February 25, 2016 at 10:18 pm #47512
MB, my views are tainted by having lived over a decade in the Denver metro area.
Rush hour comes and everything stops. And that’s without panic or danger.
EMP happens, few will be moving even if their cars work, just from the snarled roads and abandoned cars.
The mountain passes are hard enough normally, now snarl the roads, add some weather, hunger and bad attitudes, the bad guys will be having a bad day. Add to that, most rural Coloradans are armed and willing.
But say they come North to Cheyenne after Ft Collins/Greeley.
There’s a lot of unfriendly country between there and the rest of the state.
There’s things people don’t think about, especially concerning the distances and country. There is some very good reasons people don’t live everywhere here, it gets downright hostile much of the year if you don’t know the land. Zipping through at 80 mph doesn’t give a true showing of the country. Water doesn’t exist in many places, hostile critters, etc.
Unlike Iowa, Missouri or Nebraska, which one can walk across fairly easily, our country itself is a killer.
I also don’t expect Cheyenne, Laramie or Rawlings to just fade away.
There are more long range shooters here per capita than anywhere else, and they’re used to shooting antelope and jackrabbits, small targets that move fast.
That covers much of the East.
The West? SLC is not a worry, and we would most likely get aid from there considering our demographic.
North and South, there’s nothing except little Burg’s.
Location, location, location.
While we can’t grow squat, we have meat on the hoof and are out of reach from many.February 26, 2016 at 12:02 am #47516
I agree Wyoming has many advantages. It will fare better than most States. Here in VT, we can feed our own but we could not do that and also take care of a mass influx of Metro NYC refugees. WY has 563,000 people and VT only 626,000 but WY is vastly larger and more remote than VT. It wouldn’t take a very large share of the 25 million (or more) BoWash folks within a tank of gas to overwhelm VT. This is why we really need to think in terms of closing borders. There are probably only 8 paved roads from MA into VT and maybe 12 from NY into VT, so very easily done but anyone who tried to get such a plan in place now would be deemed a lunatic. I don’t live in a border town and so all of that will be totally outside my sphere but knowing how to isolate my little valley is something I can contemplate. When is the larger question. Doing so too soon is problematic. Doing so too late is problematic. But the devil is always in the details. Folks are going to want family & friends let in, and I agree on that. I’d give anything for my kids to make it here. Out of state property owners have a valid claim too. Local folks figuring such out on the fly will only result in each of those 20 entry points having a different set of rules. There are no easy answers and there will be much heartache that could have been avoided if only such things could be discussed as basic civil defense now.
Whirli, I have no doubt but that Vermonters are not in the same league as folks in Wyoming when it comes to guns but most households here are armed whereas most in BoWash are not. That does give some leverage. Another positive is that 2nd home owners in VT and just regular vacationers who will automatically think of VT as where to escape to are an upscale crowd. The urban gang bangers probably couldn’t find VT on a map even if they could read. And they are the ones who are terrified of the dark and of wild animals.February 26, 2016 at 1:41 am #47519
You do have to know the land , contrary to popular belief , its actually better to cross the AZ desert in the day , when you can see ………..it all depends on what county your crossing . Southern part , travel in the day ….too many unseen hazards left over out there from the old west , wells , overgrown vertical mine shafts , that over time you will fall into if not paying close attention , a great many are undocumented , that and the mountain ranges are disorientating at night . especially in Cochise County . The Apache’s hid out there for a reason . Central , travel in the night , flat as a tortilla . whole lot of nothing . Northern part , you get into heavily forested areas , day or night if you are used to that terrain . Outside the cities , most people there can shoot also . Maine is a different animal , big state , with harsh winters …………….very difficult to move around in a SHTF . Large areas of dense forrest , natural barriers such as lakes , rivers , etc . Road systems would be easy to block , seems very gun friendly , but still learning the ropes of the area . Predominately white people ( YAY ! ) , unfortunately , Uncle Adolph has been placing Iraqis in some of the places . Dont trust them ………..or any muslim .February 26, 2016 at 2:15 am #47522
Tolik, Maine isn’t still taking in Somalis are they? The bunch that went to Lewiston didn’t work out so well. Northern New England (VT-NH-ME) is the whitest part of the country. Come SHTF, the lack of diversity will be a good thing. That and the largely rural nature of the population. And you are very right about the terrain and climate, though this non-winter we’ve had would have made it a whole lot easier for refugees trudging through. The neighborhood to the south (BoWash) is just too crowded. That is our biggest problem.February 26, 2016 at 2:47 am #47524
It depends on what happens and when, but I believe one of the greatest migrations in history will occur post shtf. People will move south out of the northern climate and move east out of Western States to find water. It may not work out so well in the end, but that is what people will do.
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