February 22, 2016 at 12:54 am #47449
We’ve discussed various aspects of this before but given the world seems hell-bent on racing towards WWIII, it is very much worth discussing again.
It would be very easy to isolate my neighborhood given very limited access into it. Dropping trees in 5 spots would isolate us. There are a number of issues in doing so however.
– I can’t do it without the cooperation of others that live here and if I brought up the topic now I’d be deemed the neighborhood crazy.
– Where does the line get drawn? I live near the center of the “hamlet” but it isn’t like there is suddenly a void where nobody lives. The houses just start getting a little further apart as you go away from the center. Each of the 5 access points would need a decision in this regard. Part of the issue here is how large of a “zone” can be effectively managed. The center part of this hamlet is probably several dozen homes spread across maybe a square mile. Maybe 100 people. Expanding it to several square miles is going to get you a couple hundred people. That includes kids and the elderly that aren’t going to be manning posts.
– Folks are going to want to let family members or friends in which begs the question as to how that is managed.February 22, 2016 at 1:38 am #47450
Given the scenario you laid out food supplies will evaporate in days unless somehow a large stock is in storage. 100 people will need over 40,000 lbs of food for just one year.
I would have a similar issue but figure isolating only about 14 homes but a smaller area. That would be close to 50 people if they stayed or were home at the time of the event. I’ve come to the conclusion that closing the road may attract more attention from thousands of near by residents. I might be better off letting them pass down the road. Otherwise it would take serious dangerous methods to keep them away.February 22, 2016 at 4:07 am #47454
Good thoughts. Our location is a small valley between two good sized mountain ridges. We’re more or less apart from the rest of the town which is why it would be so easy to isolate. The geography would make it very difficult to not have the whole neighborhood function in some sort of cooperative manner. Just talking the center part of the hamlet there are two farms raising beef cattle plus the place next to my property has a few beef cattle. Spring through fall there are sheep on my property. That farmer lives on the other side of town where his main farm is. The center part of the hamlet also has a small farm raising goats and ducks plus they have a large green house. Those folks make cheese too. There’s a sugar house and multiple folks have apple trees and assorted veggie & berry gardens. At least a couple have chickens. There may be more I’m not thinking of offhand. There’s a few folks with horses too.
In our case the largest place within an hours drive is a town of 16,000 just 10 miles away. My neighborhood is not in the direct path of where they would fan out but its not like people don’t know we’re here. If they’re looking for farm country they’d be going away from where I live rather than towards it, or perhaps heading to the other side of town where most of the farms are.
As you say though isolating yourself pretty much shouts you have something you are trying to protect. It is a double edged sword.February 22, 2016 at 4:36 am #47455
There will be foraging in those days. People will go from house to house to house, looking to see what they can find. Think of the NY prison escapees going through the mountains last year, breaking into cabins, homes, etc., looking for whatever they could find. Think of Eric Rudolph while he was on the run, and others in similar circumstances. Then multiply that times nearly 100% of the population in a region, or an entire nation – in dire circumstances, where there are NO food delivery trucks to the local markets, no dumpsters to dive because nobody throws out anything. Our homes (or hideouts) become potential resources to much of “everyone else.” Selco has described it well – from real experience. It’s deadly. And even in rural areas, wherever there’s a road, someone has been traveling along it for a reason. People live and work along roads. They literally become “road maps” to our homes. When the “pickin’s” in town become slim to non-existent, people fan out. It’s survival then, not convenience, and distance becomes a minor factor for all but those willing to roll over and die. New “gangs” will form simply for mutual survival purposes, and they will expand their reach as necessary for that survival. Indeed, the hordes will be searching for the hoards (ours).February 22, 2016 at 2:53 pm #47457
Thats just it , timing is everything . Now is the time to look around and have a viable plan , people are not ready for the idea , things are too calm . Wait until the time when things are starting to happen , and people are beginning to speak openly about their safety concerns ………….then you introduce them to your plan and observations , you will probably be surprised at how fast people will move toward that goal ……….when everybody recognizes the problem . But now is not the time , most likely many others here have the same problem , they see things but cant speak openly about what they see . Keeping silent is better , not only will you look like the village crazy , but may attract unwanted attention from the Gestapo , we live in a snitch culture now , with everybody being afraid of somebody they have been conditioned to be suspicious of ……………….again , its amazing how fast that will change , when people recognize the threat . Another thing we all need to start doing , is looking around at the people in our area , there is always some tyrant that wants a little power , do you have responsible cops ? or corrupt bullies ? and so on , those factors will shape how or IF things get done to the benefit of everybody in the area . Expect some factions , no matter what you do or who you talk to , but we should all have a pretty good idea of the mentality of the people in the area already , and what they are receptive to .February 22, 2016 at 7:45 pm #47460
Timing is everything in most of the preps and defensive action/reaction that need to be taken. The transition time between the event (let’s use a cyber grid down event) and total lawlessness might be a few days. If a person or group blocks public access to roads I expect the local LE will not be happy with this action. After a few days they may want the protection for themselves, but at first it’s going to pose a problem. Dealing with the first trespassers will also present a challenge.February 22, 2016 at 8:50 pm #47463
Food for thought… thanks!
I was in Alaska recently more specifically Chena Hot Springs Resort outside Fairbanks. The surrounding area is experiencing unusual amount of home robberies (guns, ATVs, tools, etc.). Turned of criminals (‘meth gang’) from Fairbanks were using Google Earth to research places to rob. Very little law enforcement to keep an eye on things in rural AK and meth epidemic is live and well up there. I thought to myself what might happen in SHTF. Dangerous business robbing these rural Alaskans but criminals/addicts are willing to take the risk.February 22, 2016 at 9:59 pm #47464
That is the sole reason for the militia of old to exist , each town had one for its protection in the colonial days , Its just a case of sour grapes with the feds , as the state militias turned into the Confederate army lol , they had a hard time with johnny reb . I could very well see a militia or town guard springing up in the smaller communities , the cities are a different matter .February 22, 2016 at 11:51 pm #47468
use of area denial deterrents, some as old as caltrops, trip wires ,thorny bushes as modern as magnetic field detection grid. use of loud noises (or dogs) can be effective till more hardened resistance comes. Then you will have to choose what is morally right, and what is legally, Just remember you will have to live with yourself after, Drones and remote cameras are a tremendous force multiplier along with radios and the ability to use them wisely.
stock razor wire it is cheap the rusty surplus stuff, shiny is nice rusty makes everyone cringe.
learn from the criminals do box windows ” fake one” with scrap wood from pallet you can make your steel core door not break after 12 + hits from a door breaker LE style. but if you have glass next to it how long before that gets broken and a hand reaches for the lock? do you have other lock pins in place. do you have an clear line of sight of your front door? your backdoor? have a cage or materials for a second door right behind the first. using nothing more than heated sand and an air compressor you can make a confined space a nightmare
do you have window covers? can you survive a immolation event? How many sand bags do you have?
bamboo grows crazy fast dont like that do black berriers… 3 coils high razor wire and then have bamboo/ black berry grow through it…stupid hard to get through impossible without noise or with any speed even in a heavy truck only have to worry about heavy equipment but you can hear that.February 22, 2016 at 11:57 pm #47469
In 1600’s/1700’s New England there were multiple wide scale wars with Indians and with the Indians & French. In-between wars there were sporadic small scale attacks here and there. Isolated homesteads were generally too dangerous because a single family was no match for a roving band of Indians that might be passing through. People generally lived in towns and culturally they worked together for mutual aid and support. In some towns there were designated homes that people took refuge in during attacks, homes that were fortified in some manner so as to offer a greater level of protection. Where I used to live there was one home with a false floor between the 1st & 2nd floors, a space that children could be hidden in when the town was attacked. Some towns had palisades around a core part of the village and during periods of high tension those with homes inside the palisade took in each night those who lived outside it. Armed guards would be posted during the day offering some degree of protection for those who were tending crops or animals outside the palisade. Any male old enough to use a gun carried one with him at all times during these periods.
I don’t think the fundamentals have materially changed several hundred years later. Somehow communities or neighborhoods will have to work together for mutual aid and support. Going it alone is just too dangerous.February 23, 2016 at 2:46 am #47470
In the Southwest , particularly the very old sections , you will see layers of cactus , prickly pear up front ( it also grows fairly fast ) …………and the most EVIL of all cactus behind the prickly pear …..the dreaded teddy bear cholla ! Anybody who has lived in that part of the country for any length of time , knows they dont even want to go near that thing , they also call it the jumping cholla , because it seems to get you no matter what if your too close , and they hurt……..a lot . Behind that they would plant ocotillo , a very tall spear like plant ………thats packed with thorns . Also called ‘ living fence ‘ , because farmers used to plant individual stalks in the ground and tie them together to form a fence . ……………..few people will want to attempt that triple layer of misery .February 23, 2016 at 12:39 pm #47471
“Then you will have to choose what is morally right, and what is legal(ly), Just remember you will have to live with yourself after” namelus
This is the real dilemma. In the first hours of civil disorder denying people access to former public areas for your own security will guaranty adversarial confrontation. Some people will not be warned off. Would you shoot someone at that point just because they crossed your self imposed boundry. To your knowledge they haven’t committed any acts of looting or violence. This might entail large numbers of people in the beginning stages of collapse.
February 23, 2016 at 8:56 pm #47481
- This reply was modified 4 years, 5 months ago by 74.
This roving horde thing.
Always had a problem with it.
Assuming that the “usual” happens and people stay in place until the food runs out. The normalcy bias.
How many of these starving people will have the strength to go door to door let alone become a horde?? After a week??
Since those who live in the houses the hordes are looking at have been eating the food, not just looking at it, the food will be just as gone as everywhere else. But they’re not burning calories out roving. And they have all their gear and motivation to hold onto their stuff.
Short of a zombie apocalypse where people change or die before they can eat the food, there will likely be little at best.
And this time of year, few hordes rove far at 20f. The mad Max fantasy is just that.
Me I’m concerned about the tweaker and his girlfriend.
Now and then they are the risk we all face.February 23, 2016 at 10:08 pm #47483
I’d say it depends a lot on where you live. Out where you live everyone in the State could meet in one place and not amount to a horde. In congested urbanized areas the horde is on the street already.
No matter where they live when food runs out in their respective residences those people are going to go out looking. As they get hungrier their desperation will grow. They will do things they would not risk before.
In addition to regular folks desperate for food will be the subculture with no respect for others or laws. This group will be taking whatever they can. If cars still work This group will be roving looters.
Where I live I expect beggars, theives and looters mixed in with families trying to escape.February 23, 2016 at 11:48 pm #47485
I had to look this up because it will come into play. “1997 editorial in the British Medical Journal, Peel briefly reviewed the available literature regarding human starvation. Generally, it appears as though humans can survive without any food for 30-40 days, as long as they are properly hydrated. Severe symptoms of starvation begin around 35-40 days, and as highlighted by the hunger strikers of the Maze Prison in Belfast in the 1980s, death can occur at around 45 to 61 days.”
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