November 6, 2015 at 9:12 pm #44908
“In any case, I want to stress the part that it is more about how you shoot than what you shoot, within reason. It is also more about the mindset and condition of the subject you are shooting which is not under your control. Take control – buy good bullets and put them where they count the most! And remember “anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting a whole lot!” (but please stop when the threat is cancelled, we don’t advocate “finishing shots”).”November 6, 2015 at 10:18 pm #44917
” As I’ve stated before…choose your “experts” wisely. Your life depends on your decision! “November 7, 2015 at 3:04 am #44934
I don’t find anything written by Greg Ellifritz in his article that disputes the basic premise behind what Higginbotham states. Shoot until they stop. Greg seems to have a good resume in law enforcement, and I have no doubt he studied other peoples work on ballistics. But wound ballistics is not s finished science as we will all see, soon the FBI switches from the 40 S&W back to the 9mm. 30 years ago the FBI went from 9s to 10s to 40ss, now were back to 9s. They want to use 9mm so they can hit the target. Hit the target as many times as it takes to do the job.
November 8, 2015 at 5:39 am #44953
- This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by 74.
Ellifritz is an interesting writer.
My problem with his premise is in his attacks on the writers, not just their data.
Some of his previous attacks were because of a printing typo.
Or because he didn’t agree with the testing criteria.
He reminds me of the bullies who believe they’re right just because they are louder and bigger than someone else.
Reality is, all handgun rounds are poor stoppers.
Sometimes the bad guy just isn’t giving up.
To paraphrase another gunwriter who’s seen the elephant, none of the people I killed with 9mm ball are here to talk about its effectiveness.
You’ll note, none of the writers and instructors who have been there and done that, would choose a 9mm over a .45 when limited to ball ammo in both.
Hit em, hit em again.
Shoot em until they are no longer a threat.
Aim and hope to hit something vital.November 8, 2015 at 11:52 am #44957
I have the same impression about Elifritz. I haven’t been reading his stuff before so I checked his links back to his blog. I noted that he makes a claim to owning and using the same book by Louis LeGarde that he disparaged when Higgenbother made a reference to it. His claim about medical treatments to lung shots at the time the book was written is not factual. Plus current wound analysis backs up Louis LeGarde. The elasticity of lung tissue limits the tissue damage due to gun shots. Obviously something was done in the past for sucking chest wounds beyond bed rest just like it would be now. LeGarde was pointing out the fact that men lived after being lung shot which is true. I think it was very hypocritical on the part of Elifritz.
Compare the biography of LeGarde to that of Elifritz a 20 year LEO. Who do you believe?November 8, 2015 at 5:35 pm #44963
One thing we all will have to deal with , is the terror of the situation , will we be able to pull ourselves together enough to make correct shot placement ? I have talked to combat veterans , and one guy’s statement stayed with me . He was a Vietnam vet , a Marine , he said this ” my first firefight , I stayed on the ground and cried like a baby , my second firefight , I couldnt get enough ammo ” , and this was from trained people . I subscribe to the theory of ” hit them as many times as it takes to make them stop ” ( or stop moving at all ) . A handgun seems to be the most practical for most self defense situations , but given a choice in close quarters , I would rather have a shotgun with a handgun as backup . As for shot placement ? Cant say , I will most probably shoot the perp anywhere I can , as many times as I can , and hope for the best , I’m not a soldier .November 9, 2015 at 8:36 pm #45013
I’d much rather have my rifle but my Glock is always with me. I shoot often and add training when time permits. The military was helpful in widening my point of view around use of weapons in combat. Yet I’m only cautiously optimistic in big SHTF and serious gun play. A lot comes into play in a gun fight.November 9, 2015 at 9:44 pm #45017
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