Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #19823
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Great article on hand guns in the military. I think that everyone prefers what they feel good with and the caliber is not as important as some think.

    http://kitup.military.com/2014/07/sof-prefers-9mm-45-caliber.html

    #19846
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    I think that the last two paragraphs tell it best.

    From customers and friends who are the sharp edge of the sword, the comments remain the same as they have for over a century.
    The 9mm especially in . mil guise stinks.

    That the 9mm is Nato standard only means that its going to be common in war zones, not necessarily a good choice other than that.

    That MARSOC can’t get enough ammo for their .45’s says so much about the .mil supply lines these days.

    That the FBI and other civilian agencies are returning to the 9mm is no surprise to those in the industry, as most .40 pistols are converted 9mm and are not built to handle the abuse. The H&K USP being an exception.

    With the advances in bullet technology over the last 35 years, the 9mm has come a long way, in good defensive loads equalling the .40 and .45 for effectiveness.
    But again we are talking high pressure, higher wear ammo, and not available for normal use in war zones.

    Suddenly, that effective 9mm is hamstrung and highly ineffective.
    The fact that so many who return from the war zones choose something other than 9mm, even when good ammo is available is also a telling point.

    One has to remember, these are still issued guns we are discussing,not personally chosen and owned. There is little choice available to the foot soldier.

    #19859
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Good points Whirlibird, I find my self reading every word in your post. You have a lot of experience in the gun business.

    #19874
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    I’m staying out of this…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #19889
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7

    Thanks for the postings. My preference looking back in my military service I’d rather have had bigger caliber pistol like a .45. We did not have a choice in the matter. Story below is interesting use for .45 and says a little for shot placement. However when I’m in Alaska it’s typically 44mag/10mm. Rifle is first choice but not always handy to bring into play while fishing.

    “Alaska man shoots 9-foot brown bear trying to get into house”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/16/alaska-man-shoots-foot-brown-bear-trying-to-get-into-house/

    Good the shooter was on second floor patio and bear below!

    #19893
    Profile photo of Novus Ordo
    Novus Ordo
    Hunter
    rprepper

    I call BS on the article title. “Military.com” and many military “news” outlets are not endorsed by the military at all and have writers that constantly and consistenly screw things up (like writing that the AH-1W aircraft had an anti collision radar in a crash article – it doesn’t). They hire the same type of budding reporters that the lame stream media does where little research and more guessing passes for investigative journalism.

    Having recently shot at the local SEAL indoor range recently and hearing a couple of them tell my group that they only used 9mm for “dogs and security lights” and as a backup (including the HK MP5), that should tell you what they really think of the 9mm IF they had the choice. Just because they have them in the inventory, doesn’t mean that would be what they would actually PREFER. They use the tools that are given to them. I’ve got both, but if I had to choose one and had no ammo logistics issues, it would be the .45 also. I didn’t conduct a poll or anything, but the fact that these units are constantly seeking out better variations of the .45 – instead of being satisfied with the 9mm, speaks volumes…

    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
    - Thomas Paine

    #19905
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Malgus, you need to get into this, I posted this because I knew you had your own opinion on this.

    Let’s have some fun with this, is it the 9mm or the .45? The 9mm does have 17 in the mag and the .45?

    #19909
    Profile photo of Novus Ordo
    Novus Ordo
    Hunter
    rprepper

    Freedom – depends on the .45 configuration. 1911’s and clone’s have mags of 7/8, but the Glock 21 and other double stacked .45’s have mags of 13.

    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
    - Thomas Paine

    #19913
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Malgus wrote:</div>I’m staying out of this…

    Oh, join in.

    Novus Ordo:

    It’s an Op-Ed.
    Opinion pieces are generally long on opinion and short on fact.
    Just like this one.

    #19914
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Whirlibird, agree that is why I post them. Love to see everyone’s opinion.

    #19927
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    I just sold 2 – 9mm pistols, I had too many and I am now concentrating on my 40s and 45s. I also have PCCs in 9, 40, and 45, which will be hand-out guns in SHTF for around camp defense. A brace of ARs and one AK, maybe a Draco in the future, but IMO the SHTF is prolly too close to get that Draco. I still have an M&P9, fine weapon. :D

    IMO a good 9mm +P cartridge will be for carry in SHTF and after. I need to get some of this, like Underwood or something of a similar cost with similar performance. But mostly I think I will carry the 40 or 45.
    I’m no expert, but the 40 and 45 just feels better to me.

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #19928
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Okay, fine. You guys want my opinion, so here it is…

    No matter what you think of either, bottom line is that it is a pistol round. The human body is remarkably resilient and can withstand tremendous amounts of abuse/damage and still keep on going…

    Even coming out of a sub-machine gun, both will still hit only as hard as a pistol. The advantages of a sub-gun is that it has a large reservoir of cartridges to draw from and it’s rate of fire – both of which are not available in a pistol (unless it’s some rarefied thing, like a Skorpion).

    The pistol is there to give you time to get to your primary weapon, which is – hopefully – a battle rifle.

    All that said, if I am limited to hardball ammo, then I choose the .45. Why? Because physics. If I am allowed to use specialized ammo, like Talons, Sabers, Gold Dots, etc, then I still choose the .45… why?

    Because “specialized” ammo was designed to make a smaller bullet act like a larger bullet, the theory being if you could get a small bullet to mimic big bullet performance, then you could carry the equivalent of a big bullet, but more of them. Thing is, if the same technology is applied to larger bullets, then that makes them that much better than their smaller-caliber counterparts..

    I’ve got exactly one 9mm… a carbine. And I bought it for a family member who will probably have a need for something that holds a lot of cartridges… plus, the cost was roughly the same as other carbines, but the quality was far superior. The higher velocity of specialized 9mm ammo – (Edit: Higher velocity coming out of a longer carbine-length barrel. Not a pistol length barrel) – in this case, Ranger T 127g +P and Sabers – should translate to better on-target results. And even if it doesn’t, that’s sort of why this thing comes with a 76 round drum magazine – you fire, and keep firing till your target is down and stays down…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #19932
    Profile photo of Novus Ordo
    Novus Ordo
    Hunter
    rprepper

    Whirli – yep, thanks. I get spooled when they’re written more like they’re “facts” instead of IMO (how many articles have that in them?).

    On the flip side of the coin – there’s once specific reason why I keep the 9mm as part of my collection and it’s the same as some of my others; because that’s the one that is currently most in use by the armed services and NG in addition to many PD’s. This drastically increases chances of “finding” re-supply if you just so happen to run out or have leave your bug-in location and can’t get to your caches or whatever. Like having a 12 gage primary instead of a .410, 20 or 16 – ammo availability. Besides, it’s easier on the wife and young’ins. Despite the shortcomings of the 9mm, it will remain one of the calibers I’ll keep in inventory. $.02 for what it’s worth.

    Good to see other opinions – some things I didn’t consider.

    Malgus, is that carbine the one that’s named after a cat?

    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
    - Thomas Paine

    #19933
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    OK, Malgus, Spill It!
    My 9mm Carbine is a HiPoint, cheap and solid, but holds 10, (15 if you can get a ProMag to work)

    What Carbine/Mag combo holds 76 rounds???

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #19934
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    (PS: Good to have you BACK!)

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.