Tagged: GUNKID; Gecko45
August 5, 2014 at 5:59 am #21099
I read everything on the first page and skimmed the last two pages, if this has been mention then disregard. Being in the gun industry and owning a lot of guns there is one very important gun that for the budget minded should not be disregarded and that is the Mosin Nagant Chambered in 7.62X54R it is a gun that in most of America can be bought for as little as $69 and the most I’ve seen was $169 and a 440 round spam can of ammo can be had for $92. So lets average that. For $200 you can have a powerful rifle and 440 rounds of ammo. Just Sayin!August 5, 2014 at 11:46 am #21109
They can be effective weapons. I think most of the conversations pertain to semiautomatics for the obvious advantages they have over a bolt gun.
Your comment brings up the old question of, should I try to save money on a item that my life may depend on? I think they would make great cache items.August 5, 2014 at 12:38 pm #21115
First of all, I question your price range on ammunition. I checked 3 of the popular online sites for this caliber and they ranged from $120 for 440 rnd tins up to $289 for 500 rnd cases. Several online gun shops were selling Mosin Nagants for $119–$419. Not so cheap anymore, especially with the fighting going on in the Ukraine.
I don’t think the days of cheap rifles and ammo are destined to be around much longer. They also have a reputation for being a “kicker.” So, not my idea of a first gun for a newbie. Scopes are difficult to mount, especially with that odd, in my opinion, bolt handle. Yes, there are aftermarket accessories that will alleviate some of those concerns, but that increases the initial cost.
You are right that it is powerful and can be an effective hunting rifle, but would not be my first choice for self defense. Of course, it all depends upon your intent for the weapon. Personally, I would much prefer to suggest that someone save up a bit more and find a nice low end or second hand Remington, Ruger, Stevens, or Savage. They are easier to learn to shoot well, and can be had in a variety of calibers that will be much more prevalent for a longer period of time, and handle any situation you will need them to handle. And don’t forget to start reloading for the time ammo of all types dries up. Just my opinion.August 5, 2014 at 12:46 pm #21118
On another note, how did you resolve the holster selection?August 5, 2014 at 12:55 pm #21121
I’m almost embarrassed to say that at this point, I haven’t. Probably just use a shoulder rig for winter, but not sure yet what I’ll do for summer. I’ve been spending more time with wildartist on new carry options for her. She can be so finicky. Don’t tell her I said that.August 5, 2014 at 1:09 pm #21122
Regarding cheap guns, up here in Canada we’re rather lucky in that we can usually get a new, unissued ChiCom SKS for under 200Cdn (russian ones cost a bit more, but not much). Along with that, 7.62×39 is generally easily available, so not only can you get into the firearms world with not a whole lot of money, but you can also save up and be able to have some rifles and ammo stored in caches, or have as “hand outs” to family and friends who don’t run the same calibre as I do.
It’s weird to say, but I can get an SKS with a bunch of ammo for cheaper than I can get a mosin nagant and the same amount of ammo.
Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.August 5, 2014 at 1:20 pm #21126
And this one is just right! I never really understood Goldilocks and the three bears until late in life.August 12, 2014 at 8:34 pm #21762
I think one rifle and one sidearm is the bare bones of what you would need. I personally think that a 223 rifle is the best choice. You can find ammo and parts everywhere, most people have them so you will be able to find more supplies. As far as a sidearm is concerned, I would go with a 45. I have a Glock 21 Gen 4, with some upgrades to it. I love it. It has a great balance and 13 plus 1 rounds. 9mm are great and easy to come by. Either choice in caliber is a good. You can’t go wrong with either one. I also have a 9mm with all the extras that my wife carries. If you have room or you can carry around alot of weight I would also suggest a pump shotgun.August 14, 2014 at 4:23 am #21928
You’re gonna want something that you can shoot accurately and consistently, bar none. You can have the most tricked out AR at the range, but if you cant shoot from anywhere but a ransom rest, you’re gonna be literal dead weight if SHTF. I cant tell you how many Captain Americas I see at the range shooting from these fancy rests and bragging about their quarter sized groupings. If you cant shoot your weapon efficiently from multiple positions or move fluidly through a building with it, you’re better off going in with a wiffle ball bat and some rocks.
Your weapon is only as effective as the body operating it, forget the caliber or barrel size or how many rounds it carries. If you aren’t fit enough to shoot and move effectively, don’t use that weapon. And please do not say “use the 5.56 because that is what the military and police uses and it will be abundant”. Those M4’s are going to either be in the hands of the soldier using it, or on his body. And if you run into a military force carrying an issued M4 carbine with military grade ammunition and have to explain yourself, you’re going to have a bad time. Seriously.
And another thing, if someone isn’t proficient or comfortable using a firearm, then for all that is good and holy DO NOT give them a firearm. In a stressful situation, you’re more than likely going to get yourself shot than keep your loved ones safe. I train with guys I would trust my family’s life with, but even they make mistakes now and then when it comes to muzzle awareness. I would be leaps and bounds more comfortable knowing that my sister and mom are hidden and away from the conflict then having engage in a firefight with someone who is willing to do harm to them. Just my two cents, take it as you will.August 14, 2014 at 2:54 pm #21970
Forgot if I replied to this thread already and I’m too lazy to go hunting through it, so here’s my 2 cents…
It really doesn’t matter what you choose as a SHTF weapon, so long as you are competent with it, can hit reliably with it and have plenty of ammo for it.
Colin, I know what I’m gonna say right now, you will consider heresy, but I was an old 11B down at Benning getting thrown out of C130’s back when Reagan was president, long before the Berlin Wall came down…
Yes, the AR/M4 platform is accurate. Yes, it is current issue. My first weapon on Active Duty was an XM16-E2 (yes, it actually said that on the receiver… “XM” stands for “experimental model”) that was probably a multiple tour vet of Nam.. but, I never cared for it much. My first reaction was “Da’ **** is THIS piece of ****?!?” The M4 variant is probably the most useful, and that’s because it’s light, fast and maneuverable, despite being handicapped with that short barrel. But, it ain’t the only thing out there.
Weapons are a toolbox. There ain’t no one single “best” SHTF weapon. Each has it’s uses, advantages, drawbacks, weaknesses and strengths… and the best weapon/ammo combination won’t mean **** if the man behind it is gutless, incompetent or couldn’t hit a barn with it if he was standing inside on the rafters…
Personally, I’ve always favored the shotgun. Got turned on to it down in Panama and yes, the ammo is heavy and no, you can’t carry a whole lot of it. But the shotgun can be and is a game-winner. Best load, IMHO, is Winchester High Brass 3″ shells in #1 buckshot. An old Master Sergeant from C 3/7 SF turned me on to that. Best close-range medicine for anything on two legs…
People who disparage the 5.56mm in any flavor have either never shot anyone with it, nor seen anyone shot with it. It’s not a bad round. If I had to pick a rifle or carbine in 5.56mm, any bullet weight, I would choose the HK93. Yes, it’s heavier than the AR. Yes, felt recoil is more than the AR. But the tradeoff is much greater strength and almost AK-like reliability. Accuracy is about equal that of an AR. IMHO, it’s a superior weapon.
One thing that always sort of burned me was these guys who go out and buy a short, light M4 equivalent (like the Colt 6520), and then end up hanging 15 pounds of crap on them. If you’re going to lug around a 20 pound rifle, there’s way better rifles in that weight class that outrange and outperform the M4. An M14/M1A comes to mind. Plus, a .30 caliber round will damn near cut a man in half or smash an engine block…
Hey Colin.. your points RE: physical fitness are very valid. But for a creaky old beat up ex-grunt looking at 50 in a couple years, humping a ruck like I did almost 30 years ago is out of the question. At this stage in the game, it’s not a matter of physical fitness or motivation or “wanting” to be in that kind of shape… it’s just life. Broken back. Snapped my right tibia at one point and blew out a bunch of tendons. Right rotator cuff is hanging by a thread. Them butchers down at the VA hospital had to resort to cutting the nerves in my back so I wasn’t in agony so much and could actually walk around. Didn’t actually fix anything… more like unplugging a phone line. My running days are over, son… and I know it. But that don’t mean I ain’t effective – I pumped iron from when I was 15 till I was 32 – which is when I became “non-mission capable” or “combat ineffective” (their words, not mine).
I can’t hump a ruck like back in the day, but experience and treachery are my allies, and I still got one or two good fights left in me…
I know I’m gonna go down, but my enemies will write about me with grudging respect. It is what it is, and I’m okay with that…
My current SHTF shotgun…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.August 14, 2014 at 3:18 pm #21974
Malgus, well said. They may get us in the end, but we will take an honor guard with us. By the way, nice shotgun.August 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm #21976
Thanks bro.. I think a lot of folks underestimate us older pukes. Being a physically fit young buck has a lot going for it… but so does treachery and experience. Having already been where they currently are a long time ago, WE already know what THEY are gonna do, and we can plan accordingly… Yeah, I know they’re gonna get us eventually, but not without cost.
The shotgun is one of my prized possessions and I hope my boy can inherit it someday… you aughta see it with the bayonet attached. Pretty damn intimidating. A relic from an older, better time… but then, we are too.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1August 14, 2014 at 4:41 pm #21981
If it matters, one of my favorite composers of all time is Ennio Morricone… yes, he of “Spaghetti Western” fame…
When I finally get closed out, I would like it if someone played “La Carrozza dei Fantasmi” for me… yeah, I know it’s corny, but so what…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1August 14, 2014 at 9:13 pm #22002
I meant no disrespect to you veterans, I apologize if it came off that way. You guys have seen hell more than once and you had my respect since I could walk. I appreciate all that you guys are putting up with and hope us new guys can fill the ranks as well as yall did. Thanks for the feedback too, makes me wonder how I’m gonna end up in a few decades.August 14, 2014 at 11:02 pm #22023
Where are my posts going?
Had this great reply to colin… it won’t let me post it..
Screw it… I’ll message him.
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.