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  • #39853
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Tuesday Washington had grid down power failed so was it an attack? They say no but this shows how bad the grid is.

    Power grid’s failing infrastructure at risk of cyberattack

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/04/08/power-grids-failing-infrastructure-at-risk-of-cyberattack/

    #39859
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    “We’ve taken an infrastructure that is older and we have this modernized equipment on top of it that is vulnerable to the same type of hacking attack that you see with [companies] like Target,” said Pollet. (From the Fox online article)

    They’re “working on it,” but, while that’s better than nothing, a full-on hack-attack from a major nation determined to bring it down would have a good chance of succeeding, and such vulnerability will continue for years at present rate of addressing the matter. Problem is, nobody in power wants to spend the kind of $$ it would take to do a crash program like the Manhattan Project. And hack-proofing might not be enough anyway, if the breakage of a major high voltage line can disable a big chunk of the nation. Transmission lines from remote generating plants, and substations aren’t guarded 24/7/365. A coordinated ground attack, coinciding with a hack attack, could screw things up for a long time, over a large area. Fortunately, we have no enemies who would do this. ;-)

    “Part of the solution is distributed generation – systems that generate power closer to where it’s used … there has to be a lot of investment in the grid … the question is where do we spend that money,” said Hammell. (From the Fox online article)

    Distributed generation (smaller powerplants, located nearer to the people and businesses that use the output, not tied together in one national vulnerable long-line grid) could spare us the “interconnectedness” of widespread failure (Kum Ba Yah, anyone?), and it could reduce transmission power losses, at the costs of somewhat more human labor (jobs, but higher power prices), and a supertankerload of Greenie/NIMBY anguish.

    The way the monarchy of this nation is winning new friends out in the wide world, we’ll be lucky if the next prez (presuming there is one) inherits a relatively intact national power grid in need of protection, as opposed to one in need of wholesale ground-up reconstruction.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #39866
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Yep, and when the grid does get taken down by one or more of those countries we pretend are our friends (China anyone?) or enemies (Russia, Iran, NK ….) the economic and political elite will say nobody could have seen it coming. And when WWIII comes they will be equally shocked that we can’t recreate our manufacturing capacity overnight. Economic benefits for the elite have taken precedence over resiliency for the masses. Currently even if the political will existed to revert back to a more localized and resilient grid, the general public would likely have none of it. When we bought our present home there was a huge uproar locally over a wind power proposal that could have generated enough power for the entire county. The windmills would have been dispersed in various locations around the county, including the ridge top I look at from my home. You’d of thought the world was coming to an end. The proposal was withdrawn. Since then people have fought hard to stop every solar project, including one that did get built wedged between a small airport, a 4 lane highway, and the town dump. It wasn’t in anyone’s backyard and still some people didn’t think it was an appropriate spot because you could see it from the highway. To the folks that demand more green energy every project proposed is deemed not suitable for that spot. They want green energy but object to every wind, solar, or hydro proposal, and heaven forbid anyone wants to put in a pipeline to deliver natural gas as an alternative to oil. Yes it is “greener” than oil, but they don’t want any pipelines delivering it. Their version of green is not using energy, but let’s add millions more people very year through unrestricted immigration as that is a socially just thing to do. In Northern NH there is a huge battle going on to stop the “Northern Pass” which are power lines that’ll bring more hydro power down from Quebec. Don’t want to look at the power lines. As a society we’ve done it to ourselves.

    #39868
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Our power grid isn’t the only thing that is in serious need of repair. The Interstate system, many public water systems, most city sewer systems are leaking directly into underground water sources, most of our dams and bridges are in serious need of repair…. The list goes on and on. Money for these programs have been redirected to buy votes for SO many years that we are sitting on a complete powder keg at this time. The electric grid is only a VERY small part of the serious risk our government is ignoring. Much better to give monies to people in Africa to “educate about AIDS” (money of course was redirected) than to fix our own aged infrastructure.

    How many bridges have collapsed in the last 5 years?

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #39871
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Ahh uh ahh uh, that’s the way we like it………..I see no hope and change.

    #39872
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Well here is another cyber attack “French television network hacked by group claiming ties to ISIS”

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/04/09/french-tv-network-hacked-by-group-claiming-ties-to-isis/

    This is why I think that we are getting closer to getting hit.

    #39873
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Well.. My bank statement is really late and I seem to be in a mail drought. As an end user of such services I would be the last to know if a C attack had taken place.
    Everything is just in time what are the odds of a cascading failure? The word would get out like the press conference held in the dark at the White House. Hey who turned off the lights. Lol

    #39880
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Downing the entire grid is harder than it may seem, especially as there’s three grids, eastern, western, and Texas.

    But I agree that money that should have been invested into infrastructure has gone elsewhere.
    Pretty much everywhere but here.

    Instead of fixing I80, lets fund a program to find out how many lesbian penguins are at the north pole. Hmm, time to start writing that grant proposal.

    #39881
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Yep, the non-tax paying segment of society demands entitlements over infrastructure. That said, it seems that much of the money that is given over to infrastructure is poorly prioritized. Just like with Homeland Security money, infrastructure money gets spread all over in ways for Congressmen to take credit for serving their constituents, regardless of whether the project was really essential. One small example is where I used to live, something like $750,000 was spent to upgrade a rotary by painting traffic lanes and widening the entrances a tad and when they were done the improvements were barely noticeable. It struck me at the time that surely there must have been a higher priority somewhere. In that same town $150,000 was spent for new windows on the Town Hall so that they could save $4,000 a year on energy costs. They thought a 37.5 year payback was a great investment. It was for them because they save the $4,000 whereas it was the Feds that paid for the windows. Local politicians thought the rotary project was a wise use of money too because it came from the Feds and mostly went to local contractors. How many billions are poorly spent this way every year? Small wasteful projects like that go on all over the place while elsewhere you have really important major infrastructure that’s crumbling. One of those long delayed major projects finally underway is the Tappan Zee Bridge across the Hudson. It was build 65 years ago with a design life of 50 years on wooden pilings that are rotting. 140,000 vehicles cross it every day. This is a $5 billion dollar project but far more important than those silly little projects that I noted. I don’t doubt for a minute that we couldn’t have curtailed $5 billion worth of non-essential projects years ago so as to fund the Tappan Zee replacement. Should that bridge collapse or otherwise have to close before the new bridge is completed the economic ripple will quickly exceed $5 billion. There are only two bridges across the Hudson and two tunnels (for cars) under the Hudson for Metro NYC. All four are operating at maximum capacity. To lose any one of them would be chaos. As a society we’ve lost the ability to prioritize.

    #39882
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Whirly, Some of the problem is that they never stop fixing I80. How the hell can one guy and a shovel provide entertainment for so many others with the same tool? OMG the money wasted on public works projects is astounding. Unions have soaked tax payers on infrastructure forever.

    “Davis-Bacon Act and Related Act contractors and subcontractors must pay their laborers and mechanics employed under the contract no less than the locally prevailing wages and fringe benefits for corresponding work on similar projects in the area. The Davis-Bacon Act directs the Department of Labor to determine such locally prevailing wage rates. The Davis-Bacon Act applies to contractors and subcontractors performing work on federal or District of Columbia contracts. The Davis-Bacon Act prevailing wage provisions apply to the “Related Acts,” under which federal agencies assist construction projects through grants, loans, loan guarantees, and insurance.”

    Look up the Prevailing Wages for your county and see what workers are are paid on federally funded projects, every public project has fed money, everyone one of them. Plumbers make 35.00 to 40.00 per hour before benefits. Benefits are a set dollar amount and must be paid. All those guys standing around leaning on shovels collect overtime. Labor’s rate can be around $25.00 pre hour straight time.

    #39883
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    This is one county’s wages on a road project. Every county has a different rate. Every trade has a different rate. Normally labor is the lowest paid trade.

    Laborers (Class 05 – See notes) $25.52 (wages) $15.17(benefits) $40.69 (total) 05/01/2015

    #39884
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    MB,

    Did you ever think there are people who would prefer not to spend the money on gas pipelines and bridges across the Hudson River. Extending the cancer of Nyc upstate is not an improvement. Who says we need the crime, casinos, the ghettos, the liberal politics? Originally when all those projects like the Tappan Zee were built the state was rich. Now the labor rates are approaching $100 an hour for everything. The taxes are insane. The industry ny used to have is gone. The way ny redistributes money isn’t meant to pay for improvements, it’s to keep and support Bloomberg politicians in power. They redistrict to destroy local majorities. They pass laws to obliterate the constitution. The country is in a state of decay borrowing for a future that doesn’t exist. That’s the problem. Sorry I refuse to pay any more money to pave the roads for poor illegals to come upstate and take jobs away from local families. Let the hacker war begin. And lots of luck to them.

    #39886
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Homeland defense begins at home.

    #39888
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Most cities are simply parasitical at this point and the host is dying. Only the production of real goods can save the nation and cities that at one time were manufacturing centers using raw materials from rural areas has ceased. Service jobs are a means of reshuffling money without producing anything for sale. Now we don’t even have those jobs, with about a third of the population out of work. There is no way this works out in the end.

    #39889
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Brulen, I hear you and if I lived in the Southeastern Counties (Orange, Rockland, Putnam, Westchester especially), I wouldn’t be thrilled with anything that made me more accessible to the masses down in NYC. The reality is that the Tappan Zee has been there since 1950 and there are now a couple million people in the northern suburbs in NY on both sides of the Hudson and a couple million more in Northeastern NJ & Southwestern CT with economies using that bridge. Your economy is dependent on it.

    When I travel to points south I usually take 87 to 84 into PA so as to avoid the Tappan Zee area altogether. Occasionally if winter weather is an issue I’ll take 87 down to 287 to 78 into PA so as to avoid going through the mountains. Back when I lived in MA I used to come through NYC onto the George Washington long ago as that was the shortest route, then switched to the Tappan Zee so as to avoid NYC, then switched to getting onto 84 in CT so as to avoid the metro area altogether. With age comes wisdom, sometimes.

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