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  • #47805
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    We all have read of this as a real possibility, but now the US government is admitting the eventuality of an event.

    Lights Out Scenario Not A Myth But A Coming Reality
    “On March 1, 2016, Admiral Michael S. Rogers, U.S. Navy, Commander, U.S. Cyber Command, Director, National Security Agency/Chief, Central Security Service……only a matter of the when, not the if, you are going to see a nation state, a group or actor engage in destructive behavior against critical infrastructure in the United States.”

    http://allnewspipeline.com/NSA_Chief_Warns_Black_Energy_Weapon.php

    The quoted statements referenced above come at about the 28:45 minute mark.

    #47808
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    It would be nice of the major media would jump on this so as to bring some pressure to bear as to what the government’s plans are to harden the grid. More importantly would be the questions about what happens if the grid does go down. Because the feds don’t want to answer either question my guess is the major media has been told to not cover the story. Regardless, it is a good thing that at least govt. recognizes the threat exists. At times it has seemed like they were oblivious to it.

    #47813
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Because the feds don’t want to answer either question my guess is the major media has been told to not cover the story.

    I can’t help thinking that parts of the government and the people they front for, still intend to collapse this nation and its defenses, for fun and profit. The cost of securing the electrical grid against EMP/CME has been estimated at a few paltry billions. Not pocket change for you and I, but trivial in the face of trillion dollar deficits, and multi-billion dollar programs to support hostile foreigners. Glad to hear the NSA is working on it, when they can spare the time away from reading our emails and listening to our phone calls.

    A few talk shows are beginning to mention the vulnerability of the grid, most notably, George Noory on Coast to Coast AM It might be a worthwhile subject to call in to other daytime shows, though the go-along-to-stay-on-air types would reject it, until they heard that it was becoming a topic of general interest.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #47814
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    We inherited a few shares of a major electric utility, so I took the opportunity a few years ago to ask their investor relations people what had been done to secure their portion of the grid from either an EMP or a major solar event like the Carrington Event back in the 1800s. They guy obviously didn’t know much at all about my question, though in his defense, he was a stock/bean counter guy, not an electrical engineer. His response was that they could disconnect portions of the system very quickly and re-route power as needed in such events. So much for that avenue.

    I then called the an electrical engineer I know with that company, who – as it turned out – was ALSO involved in their security operations. I acknowledge that the following is my paraphrase, but he basically said they weren’t doing much of anything extraordinary. Though a phone call, I could almost “hear” the shoulder shrug at the other end, and was waiting for the crickets to start chirping.

    SO, a few months ago I got curious again, and called an old friend I’d largely lost touch with. He works for another major power utility, specifically in the nuclear end of their system. But he knew exactly what I was talking about, and (again, my paraphrase) basically said the same thing – except he was more forthcoming with the reasons. If the “event” is an EMP (whether man-made or solar), it would be next to impossible, certainly at any price we can possibly afford, to guard against. And he acknowledged that the loss of the very large transformers in that instance would mean no power for years (not months). If the “event” is computer generated however, that’s potentially far more recoverable, depending on just what they manage to accomplish with the “hit.” Though it still would not be pretty – it would be a major inconvenience to the population as a whole. Still, it would be potentially much more serious to high-level government operations (especially military and “Homeland Security” forces) because of their severely diminished communication capabilities – again, depending on how widespread, just what kind of damage was inflicted, etc.

    So the bottom line is, according to at least two people who have significant security clearances within their respective utility systems, if we get hit through a cyber attack of some sort, we potentially get seriously hurt. The question will be just what the motivation (and “savvy” level) of the bad actors are. If they’re smart enough to realize that the entire world economic system would be dealt a massive blow if the U.S. is taken down – even for just a while – then they’ll think twice before attacking. But the mindset of too many these days is to simply destroy – witness the hordes across Europe, or those intentionally destroying an already seriously weakened South Africa. If THOSE folks launch the attack, they’ll be out for chaos, significant loss of life (especially depending on the season), etc. I’m hoping the former category of folks prevails, but fear it will be the latter. I’m sure the Russians and Chinese could easily do the deed today, but fully realize what that would mean to their own nations. But what about Little Krazee? Or how about Iran’s Supreme Leader? (Don’t forget, the Ayatollah can dismiss Iran’s President, and he appoints many military positions and resolves differences among various government entities including the military – he is the most powerful man in Iran, not the elected “civil” leader. Also don’t forget that the missiles Iran just fired are potentially capable of reaching New York City.)

    Right now, I’m going to go rummage through my old vintage video collection. I need a good dose of, ♫♪ It’s a wonderful world ♫♪ before bed – especially after viewing the protestors outside the cancelled Trump rally in Chicago, celebrating their “victory” by chanting, “This is what democracy looks like!!!” (And I don’t even WANT Trump! I just don’t want Billary even worse.) If anyone outside the U.S. really understood what’s going on here, they’d realize they don’t need to go to the trouble of attacking us. We’ll probably accomplish the deed soon enough all by ourselves.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    #47837
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Because the feds don’t want to answer either question my guess is the major media has been told to not cover the story.

    I can’t help thinking that parts of the government and the people they front for, still intend to collapse this nation and its defenses, for fun and profit. The cost of securing the electrical grid against EMP/CME has been estimated at a few paltry billions. Not pocket change for you and I, but trivial in the face of trillion dollar deficits, and multi-billion dollar programs to support hostile foreigners. Glad to hear the NSA is working on it, when they can spare the time away from reading our emails and listening to our phone calls.

    A few talk shows are beginning to mention the vulnerability of the grid, most notably, George Noory on Coast to Coast AM It might be a worthwhile subject to call in to other daytime shows, though the go-along-to-stay-on-air types would reject it, until they heard that it was becoming a topic of general interest.

    NSA Chief Warns Black Energy Attack On U.S. Power Grid A ‘Matter Of When, Not If

    Well, that’s awful nice of them to give us a heads up…

    The giant steaming pile of elephant poo everyone is stepping over is “cui bono”?

    Giant government intelligence organizations don’t do things like this because they had a sudden attack of civic virtue. They do it because it benefits them.

    Could be they tried to leverage increased funding from those morons in Mos Eisley and were told “no”, so they publicly release some Officially Scary Story to pressure them. Told in terms dumbed down enough so that even Joe Baggadonuts will understand it, he’ll get scared and put pressure on his Official Scumbag Representative in Mos Eisley to “do something” – which usually means “throw more money at it”…

    Could be something’s in the wind and they’re just playing CYA – remember how our various alphabet agencies were raked over the coals right after 9-11 for their failure to see the attack coming? Maybe they got wind of something and are playing the “We told you so!” card well beforehand…

    Could be lots of things…. but a sudden attack of civic virtue? No…

    If they think I’m stupid enough to believe they’re actually acting in our best interests, well…

    The primary concern for any agency is protecting the agency itself.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #47838
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    Much of the point of my previous post was that “they” have known about it for many, many years. And it was published in the Congressional Record decades ago (what an EMP would do to the US, and how it could be done). I don’t know what the cost would be, but at least for the utilities themselves, it would be huge. So whether it came out of everyone’s pockets in the form of taxes, or utility rate increases, it’d still come out of our pockets. And two different people at significant technical levels in two different major utilities are telling me the same thing – at least an EMP is not something they can reasonably guard against. As for a computer entry into the system, nothing’s 100% secure unless the system is entirely isolated from every other system – which in the case of utilities is impossible.

    So yes, Malgus would appear to be right. When I first read the headline I laughed, thinking, “Ok, and what’s the motivation for finally telling us at THIS particular point, when it’s no secret at all?” If one doesn’t look at what’s in it for them, they’d be remiss – because far more often than not, it’s not “for the people.” Government is a closed system. They run it the way they want, and highly resent and resist outside intervention (particularly if some congressman starts asking questions). And they most especially don’t believe they owe anything to “the people.”

    Call me cynical when it comes to the government – no complaint here. I got that way through decades of experience.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #47839
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Could be lots of things…. but a sudden attack of civic virtue? No…

    Call me cynical when it comes to the government

    You gentlemen can tell me if you think my cynicism vis-à-vis our would be overlords, fails to rise to the standard you have set, but might it just possibly be that a few of them, having checked current facts to which they are privy (and we are not) have concluded that being “the boss over nothing” was not in their best interests (purely aside from the fact that being reduced to nothing is also not in ours?)

    I don’t know how much “hardening” is possible, but having at least a few replacements for some of the various gigantic transformers stashed nearby, offline, might not be a totally stupid idea in the days of “two is one, and one is none.”

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #47840
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    That kinda goes along with the WW3 thread , I was looking a a website , discussing that the Aircraft carriers would be next to worthless if the US were to go to a full war with Russia and China , several legit reasons were discussed , but one of the most common sense ones were the fact that all the information any country gets in peace time , is only half the picture , and when wartime comes , all the things you thought about your enemies capabilities may be incorrect , when they ( and we ) pull out and get hit with things we didnt know they had . Technology has come to the point where it could kill us from too many directions to count ……….EMP included .

    #47841
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    As things now stand, it looks to me like our overlord-“protectors” are unable to keep grouchy little Kim, or Iran, from perfecting their rockets and nukes to the point that, one fine day, one of them will have all they need to launch a bigger, better polar orbit “satellite” over our heads, and voilà!, the North American grid(s) all go poof! Suicidal crazies (including devotees of the RoP) don’t need any more motivation than they already have…… if ol’ Sol doesn’t send us an X50 first.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #47842
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    Tec, I don’t know that it has to be a contest to see who can claim the greatest degree of cynicism. I admit mine’s way up there, with what I believe is good reason. In this case, they’ve known about the destructive power of EMP since the early Pacific nuclear tests, when automobiles suddenly stopped running on Hawaiian islands, street lights went out, etc. It’s been discussed on the floor of Congress and inserted into the Congressional Record decades ago (actually multiple times over those decades). Add to that the purging of high-level military officers that don’t agree with various administrations (this one is possibly the most prolific in its “retirements” and “reassignments,” but by far not the first). Therefore, I fully ‘get’ the term “perfumed princes” as it pertains to the most senior military officers – and therefore don’t have a reason to trust anything they say. That doesn’t mean they never speak the truth – and in this case, I fully believe they do. It just means that I don’t have fundamental trust in them, particularly because I don’t trust their motives. This is a specific Obama-appointee, trotted out to present this specific message. That raises all kinds of yellow flags at very best (leaning heavily toward full red).

    So my skepticism/cynicism is based on the internal response that says, “Why now? What’s the motive?” There’s extremely little any individual citizen can do about this problem, and contacting congressmen is, as we all know, largely a joke. What I’d probably place the larger amount of money on if this was a betting issue, would be that this is part of a strategy to spend more money. That’s almost always what it amounts to anymore. $17 trillion? $19 trillion? $20+ trillion? As Everett Dirksen said (using far smaller amounts that have mushroomed in the 50 years since), “A million here, a million there, pretty soon, you’re talking real money.” The warning is quite valid – the motivation is what I’m concerned about, given the speaker, the event, and the assignment.

    Following is a tiny portion of a massive report on the effects of a rather low yield nuclear blast (many different scenarios are explored in the larger piece from which this was taken). The bottom line is that we’re still toast, and it’s not just having a Faraday-caged stockpile of multi-KV transformers carefully stored around the nation. Transportation of those transformers is needed, long lengths of both above- and below-ground electrical and communication lines would be out, the vehicles would be largely toast themselves, and it would take portable alternate power generation to work at each site where repairs were being made – just for starters with the cascading list of equipment that would be damaged or destroyed, yet needed as part of the rebuilding effort.

    So no, I’m not going to give a highly placed Obama general or admiral (especially the NSA Chief) a lot of credibility in terms of motive or sudden attack of conscience, particularly when he was sent out to deliver this message. That’s just me. Anyone else’s mileage may vary. (The bold highlighting below is mine.)

    the American 1.4 Mt Starfish test at 400-km, on 9 July 1962, induced large EMP currents in the overhead wires of 30 strings of Oahu streetlights, each string having 10 lights (300 streetlights in all). The induced current was sufficient to blow the fuses. EMP currents in the power lines set off hundreds of household burglar alarms and opened many power line circuit breakers. On the island of Kauai, EMP closed down telephone calls to the other islands despite the 1962 sturdy relay (electromechanical) telephone technology, by damaging the microwave diode in the electronic microwave link used to connect the telephone systems between different Hawaiian islands (because of the depth of the ocean between the islands, the use of undersea cables was impractical). If the Starfish Prime warhead had been detonated over the northern continental United States, the magnitude of the EMP would have been about 2.4 times larger because of the stronger magnetic field over the USA which deflects Compton electrons to produce EMP, while the much longer power lines over the USA would pick up a lot more EMP energy than the short power lines in Hawaiian islands, and finally the 1962 commonplace electronic ‘vacuum tubes’ or ‘triode valves’ (used before transistors and microchips became common) which could survive 1-2 Joules of EMP, have now been completely replaced by modern semiconductor microchips which are millions of times times more sensitive to EMP (burning out at typically 1 microJoule of EMP energy or less), simply because they pack millions of times more components into the same space, so the over-heating problem is far worse for a very sudden EMP power surge (rising within a microsecond). Heat can’t be dissipated fast enough so the microchip literally melts or burns up under EMP exposure, while older electronics can take a lot more punishment. So new electronics is a million times more vulnerable than in 1962.

    http://ed-thelen.org/EMP-ElectroMagneticPulse.html

    The above link is extremely long, highly technical at times, but sufficiently understandable to be useful. And one of the things that is very clear is that the government has known the effects of EMPs for 60 years, and at least some of it is still classified. They’ve had ample opportunity to be forthcoming before, and have chosen not to. So why now, when we, the people, can’t do a darn thing about it? “Color me skeptical” would be an understatement!

    I’ll end with another quote (part of the above link – as above, the bold highlighting is mine) from a Dr. Lowell Wood in testimony to the US Senate 11 years ago (he was discussing both solar as well as nuclear events).

    “The United States, as part of its comparative advantage, no longer makes big power transformers anywhere at all. They are all sourced from abroad.

    And when you want a new one, you order it and it is delivered — it is, first of all, manufactured. They don’t stockpile them. There is no inventory. It is manufactured, it is shipped, and then it is delivered by very complex and tedious means within the U.S. because they are very large and very massive objects. They come in slowly and painfully. Typical sort of delays from the time that you order until the time that you have a transformer in service are one to 2 years, and that is with everything working great.

    If the United States was already out of power and it suddenly needed a few hundred new transformers because of burnout, you could understand why we found not that it would take a year or two to recover, it might take decades, because you burn down the national plant, you have no way of fixing it and really no way of reconstituting it other than waiting for slow-moving foreign manufacturers to very slowly reconstitute an entire continent’s worth of burned down power plant.”

    So Congress has heard about it for decades, the military knows all about it in still-classified documents, and bits and pieces of it have surfaced in popular magazines and on various web sites. The “sudden” openness by the good Obama-appointed admiral is suspect at very best.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    #47845
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    GS, I’m no more impressed by Admiral Rogers’ sincere concern for my safety, than you are. I do suspect that he probably has some concern for his own, and that of his family, but if there’s no prevention, then grid down for our lifetimes, is as good as done already.

    Look at the upside: Big Bother will have a much harder time spying on us … hey, maybe that’s what’s eating him.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #47849
    Profile photo of WhiteKnight
    WhiteKnight
    Survivalist
    rprepper

    Having read the above thought out posts, we should be on the lookout for the state insulating itself (hardening). If they are doing this on the sly, there might be reason so suspect that the state is planning to EMP our own systems.

    In my humble opinion, it’s more likely they would do a false flag cyber attack… one that could easily be reversed on command to bring the grid back online.

    That way, they could leave everyone to fight for themselves, weakening the populace and making it desperate. Then, they come in on the white horse to ‘save the day’ when a quota of damage/population loss has been achieved. Deranged plan? You bet. Beyond these lunatics? Nope. Biggest question then would be how they would keep the necessary troops from desertion, etc.

    #47851
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    WhiteKnight that has been on my mind too. I do think they have plans to keep the nuclear power plants running cool but not the electricity so there will be no melt down.

    #47852
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    White, at a technical level they could perhaps take down the grid but at an operational level I just can’t see it. It is hard to contain anything from leaking if there are more than a few people involved, and maintaining control would require more than a few people being in on it. The other thing is what would they have to gain. The elite already have unbridled power and are above the law.

    #47864
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    The other thing is what would they have to gain. The elite already have unbridled power and are above the law.

    Very true. But what they could gain (only one possibility – I’m not necessarily predicting this) is to use a grid-down situation to impose whatever term they use for martial law “for our protection.” I loved/hated the CBS TV series “Jericho” (has it really been eight years?!?) – hated it because it took so darned long – just an hour, wait a week, get another hour, see a few more, then wait for season two that seemed to never come, then came and went, without any clear ending. But I loved the scenarios in it – what happened when the lights did go out and supplies/groceries were not available, the tribalism that popped up almost immediately, the sudden lack of trust, the vigilantism, the regional and quasi-government(s), and the ever-present question of just who really did the “deed” and what were the Chinese doing in apparent humanitarian exercises? Even if entire large cities were not wiped out as in “Jericho,” I can certainly see motivation being present to have an excuse to impose non-constitutional rule for our “protection.” Create the crisis, come swooping in with the “rescue” solution,” and then transition that to the new order as they’re able. Wouldn’t put it past ‘em at least ….

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
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