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  • #44092
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    There has been lots of discussion this past year about the militarization of the police. In today’s news there was a story about the new police chief in Burlington, VT undoing what his predecessor had already done. At 42,000 people this is our largest city by far. The new chief says he has severed ties with the surplus military equipment program and is looking to return what Burlington had previously received. I don’t know what that consists of but it is a refreshing thought nonetheless. The chief used that old phrase “when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail”. What adds to my surprise is that this guy retired from the NYC Police. When he was hired I thought what in the world were they thinking bringing someone with a NYC mindset to VT. Let’s hope some of his buddies elsewhere follow suit.

    #44096
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Good for him ! sounds like a man that still wants Constitutional rule of law and not the Fascist state . We need more peace officers that look at the public as people , friends , and human beings . We dont need the KGB or Waffen SS .
    Sadly the peace officer cant survive in the corrupt system that is now taking over America .
    Thats how it starts , one person taking it upon themselves to make the change in their jurisdiction . It can be done .

    #44099
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    How refreshing! I just hope someone doesn’t “stage” a situation that gets people thinking they need armored vehicles back in the inventory, with gobs of black-clothed SWAT personnel to overwhelm bad guys. While in one sense that’s comforting to have, to be able to respond to almost anything that could possibly happen, it also leads to exactly what the Chief described with his hammer/nail analogy. I also like the part about decoupling local police forces from federal agencies, particularly. That may be just as, if not more important than the actual hardware retained vs. returned. Let the local police force get back in touch with what they were always intended to do – be part of the community, and protect and serve it (and be appreciated for it, and supported and protected in response by the citizens).

    #44105
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    This ‘militarization’, as it were comes in two forms.
    Gear and attitudes.

    The gear, its toys. Occasionally useful, if its needed, its needed immediately not waiting for it to be brought in from 50 miles away. We have learned much from the old days of SWAT and waiting for resolving the situation. In so many cases, waiting only allows for more victims. Columbine.

    Attitudes are a different matter.
    For years, despite the temporary upswing post-9/11, public attitudes towards the police has been poor at best. Now for the last 7 years, the police are the scapegoat of every scumbag despot including the potus. To blame for everything.
    The defense when everyone is against you? Rally behind and stick with your own.
    Right, wrong, indifferent, it is what it is. You cam trust those behind the badge, even those you don’t like, because its you against the bad guys.

    Your average cop, doesn’t look at the public as the enemy but as potential victims.
    Victims of the next DUI driver, victims of the next doper in need of a fix, victims of the next illegal who steals their identity, victims.

    And you remember them, the high school coach who punches a student, the sex assault victims, the hit and run victims. You see them daily if you’re in a small enough town. You want to help and protect them all.

    Suddenly, some idiot gets himself killed.
    While only one cop may have been involved, every cop is corrupt, brutal and uncaring. Lumped together because of the badge.
    It doesn’t mattet what the facts are and evidence is, the cops are to blame.
    When everyone is against you, that’s all you see.
    Us and them. Blue blood and everyone else.
    The chance of laying down your life for another ‘brother’ is always there. Even one you don’t know, but you do because they’re ‘blue’. That family, that connection is seldom seen outside LE, Fire and the military.

    The police are always there, willing to help.
    Willing to sacrifice.
    Even in places where they are looked at by some as a a bullet sponge.

    Changing police attitudes takes effort from both direction and sides.
    Its been getting better, more people are posting and reporting positive encounters, even when the cops don’t think anything of it, or that anyone is watching.

    Want the police to be a part of the community? Invite them in.
    They might surprise you.

    #44117
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    The gear, its toys. Occasionally useful, if its needed, its needed immediately not waiting for it to be brought in from 50 miles away. We have learned much from the old days of SWAT and waiting for resolving the situation. In so many cases, waiting only allows for more victims. Columbine.

    Pardon me, but BS.

    Your argument is predicated on the false premise that more “gear” will prevent the loss of life – that waiting around for the “gear” to show up will cost lives. Then you double down on the false premise by citing Columbine intentionally to elicit an emotional response to support your Jenga Tower of false premises…

    Allow me to pull the bottom piece out of your Jenga Tower.

    What isn’t needed is more cool-guy “operator” taxpayer-funded crap. What is needed, is courage. The selfless service that cops purport to have by the truckload – because they’re all “heroes”, or so the media tells us every day – is almost nonexistent if courage only comes when you get your free $hit on and all ninja’d up…

    Please don’t insult my intelligence with that phony “arms race” argument. Using any metric you care to, Bad Guys and scumbags use cheap, for-$hit garbage weapons – overwhelmingly junky handguns – and not top of the line military-grade select fire assault rifles. Situations like the North Hollywood Shootout are an infinitesimally small minority, not the norm. Which doesn’t justify the taxpayer-funded cool guy free $hit.

    Back in the 1930’s, when genuine Bad Guys and gangsters ran the show and used the genuine article, it was still extremely rare, and they still got extremely dead at the end of the day. And there were no cool-guy ninja goons waiting around for “the gear” to show up so they could grow a pair…

    Whatever happened to the concept of “One Riot. One Ranger”? If that ever existed, it was squashed into extinction decades ago, replaced by “Officer Safety” instead of the welfare of the citizenry. The police have benefited from the same PR campaign started by Hoover for the Feds back in the 1930’s. A constant barrage of programming over decades to convince us that the enforcer goons for the Elites are really there “for our protection” and that they “selflessly serve”… what a pantload.

    Attitudes are a different matter.
    For years, despite the temporary upswing post-9/11, public attitudes towards the police has been poor at best. Now for the last 7 years, the police are the scapegoat of every scumbag despot including the potus. To blame for everything.

    Boo hoo. Poor them. Us poor proles and ‘mundanes’ should really appreciate all that our sainted Holy Avengers do for us…

    The defense when everyone is against you? Rally behind and stick with your own.
    Right, wrong, indifferent, it is what it is. You cam trust those behind the badge, even those you don’t like, because its you against the bad guys.

    Oh please. Don’t make it sound like cops were just standing around, eating donuts and minding their own and then everyone started hating on them for no reason… Cops have “stuck with their own” for decades – longer than I have been alive.

    The Blue Wall of Silence protects the vast majority, and if something gets out because one of us poor proles or mundanes happens to film a cop acting egregiously and sends it to the local news station or posts it on SpewT00b, they get “paid administrative leave”, all sorts of protections we don’t get thanks to the Union (like having a “cooling down” period before any questioning can take place, pre-screening of any questions that will be asked, regular bathroom and food breaks, a lawyer/rep present during any questioning, more…)…

    I was going to cite chapter and verse, but why bother? You’d just say it was ‘an isolated incident’ or something… anyone interested can just look up NYPD “cop” named Brendan Cronin. The shame of it is, I had to hear about this mess long after the fact…

    I trust myself against “the bad guys” just fine.

    Your average cop, doesn’t look at the public as the enemy but as potential victims.

    Sorry. I don’t believe that for an instant. If it were true, then their behavior would be 180 degrees different than what it currently is.

    The police are always there, willing to help.
    Willing to sacrifice.
    Even in places where they are looked at by some as a a bullet sponge.

    Well, which is it? Are they waiting around for the gear to show up from 50 miles away because “officer safety” or are they charging in selflessly, ready to sacrifice themselves for us poor, unappreciative mundanes? Can’t be both.

    Changing police attitudes takes effort from both direction and sides.

    Nope. Cops themselves started this “us vs them” mentality – it’s up to them to rectify it. THEY exist to provide us with a service. They serve at our pleasure. WE do not exist to provide them with position.

    And us poor mundanes have the exact same powers a cop does – since one cannot give that which one does not possess, then that means cops do not possess any power that we ourselves do not have. They merely do the job we all have the authority to do, but do not have the time since we’re leading different lives – it’s called ‘delegation of authority’… that’s the way it’s supposed to work, anyways. Usurping power has always been the goal of those who actually wield it…

    Want the police to be a part of the community? Invite them in.
    They might surprise you.

    Sorry, no. Not without a warrant.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Malgus Malgus.
    #44127
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Wow……..

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #44129
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Sorry. I didn’t mean to re-ignite the good cop-bad cop debate. I just wanted to share the good news of a small city rejecting the surplus military handouts and mindset. If Burlington can do it, maybe others can do the same.

    #44130
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    MB,

    I hope other municipalities do send all their taxpayer-funded war machines back… they’re not needed nor wanted. At least, not by the citizenry… the Elites most definitely want them to have their “toys”, however…

    Perhaps Assistant Undersecretary of Knob Polishing Lee Greenwood can say something profound about it… *

    *(Yes, I actually mean the Lee Greenwood and his crappy song… that’s not a euphemism for anyone else here on the boards..)

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #44133
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Malgus +100

    #44140
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Malgus, nice to have you back.

    You’re entitled to your opinion, right or wrong.
    And sorry, I’m not going to be baited into another bashing session.

    Have a nice day.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Whirlibird Whirlibird.
    #44144
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Malgus, nice to have you back.

    You’re entitled to your opinion, right or wrong.
    And sorry, I’m not going to be baited into another bashing session.

    Have a nice day.

    Same to you – you’re entitled to whatever opinion you want.

    Don’t flatter yourself. I wasn’t ‘baiting’ you. Merely refuting false memes and premises. Answer back or not – I don’t much care.

    You have yourself a good one.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #44147
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Actually the baiting was in a previous post, just not going there anymore.

    I don’t know what these false ‘meme’s’ are, is that a kentucky thing?

    As to any falsehoods or premises, I can say they aren’t false with the officers I have worked with or know. Your mileage may vary.

    Again have a nice day.

    #44330
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    This is a related follow-up sort of. I was working in the Town Hall today with the other two Listers and some guy who had come in to pay his taxes stopped to talk to the other two Listers who he apparently knew. Turned out he was the County Sheriff. I had never met him and didn’t even know he lived in my town. I missed the beginning of the conversation because I was taking care of a request and so when I joined in I didn’t realize that it was the deputy assigned to our town that they were talking about. The Sheriff was telling the story of how he had mistakenly shot two deer one day. Anyway he calls the game warden to report what he did and the game warden and another guy come straight out to investigate. Afterwards the game warden tells the Sheriff that the guy that was with them is someone he should hire. Subsequently the Sheriff does contact him and offers him (the deputy now assigned to our town) a job. The guy asks him don’t you want to interview me first? The Sheriff says, you already had your interview that day in the woods. The Sheriff then tells us that the guy had excellent people skills, did a thorough job gathering the facts of what happened and analyzing them, and then came to a reasoned conclusion. He said that’s what he wants in his deputies but it is getting increasingly hard to find those characteristics. He said too many young guys have a chip on their shoulder or are looking for power. He said he doesn’t want people who are eager to write lots of tickets or be arresting people but rather people who will instead seek to resolve the problem and show respect for the public. I don’t know the Sheriff’s political views but I decided right then and there that I like my County Sheriff. Most likely he is conservative given this is a pretty Republican area. I already knew I liked the Deputy from my interactions with him when he stops by the Town Hall.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Profile photo of MountainBiker MountainBiker.
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