February 10, 2016 at 12:12 am #47179
Ah! Thanks. I missed that. Looks really bad. They truly were trying to injure or kill police, without regard to the safety of bystanders/observers. I hope Proteus is OK. I worry that we haven’t heard from him in a while.
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."February 13, 2016 at 2:16 am #47224
Greetings my friends. Another update for you, since all things here have gone from bad to worse, as it seems. Right now there are large protests under way, different associations and guilds protesting regarding pensions and many other issues (financial mostly, including the insane austerity measures that are now demanded). Right now there are farmers from all over Greece that have cut the country’s freeways and toll points all over, more than 20 places, including the central square (the one frequently shown before the Parliament). I had to sort out some health issues but you didn’t miss much to be honest. ND party changed leadership to a more moderate conservative Mitsotakis who has a lot to prove against his family’s name and tries to unite several factions under his wing. With regards to issues of civil unrest, so far not much happened besides the episodes that you witness which happened mostly during the last few weeks occasionally between protesters and riot police (like today for example, between the farmers and the riot squad). As predicted, since January the whole situation has gone downhill and much more in terms of protests has been planned.
What’s even more worrying is the possibility of the Schengen exit of Greece, as the country is unable to meet the demands to safeguard the very long borders with regards to refugees (or even islamic invaders, according to some sources). There are border issues and even some crimes like raping a young child by some of these “refugees” in northern Greece. It doesn’t take a genius to imagine what will happen here if Greece gets isolated with closed borders and all these thousands of desperate and angry people from all sides have to survive…possibly by committing crimes or attempting to wipe each other out. Starvation, unemployment and other things will affect survival and possibly total instability will ensue within months. On the other hand, the whole NATO patrol ships on the borders is a mixed blessing, as there are doubts on how they will implement the border control with regards to Turks (no-one seems to want to disappoint these guys, no matter if they violate treaties and international agreements, including violations of airspace and naval disputes). On a more positive side, hopefully NATO presence will hopefully deter some crazy factions from operating paramilitary stuff on the side… Of course, it is rather doubtful whether the NATO thing here is about tiny Greece, or the bigger players like Russia and the whole Aleppo thing in Syria and the possibility of inflaming into a WW3. Judging from the past, all it takes is a few wrong moves and the whole game shifts into gear into its pre-ordained orbit, which most likely involves economic wipeout through conflict and resetting. Forgetting history will condemn us to repeat it.
I am very sorry that most of the big players believe the odds are good for them winning solo. It seems that the world, once again, will pay for their delusion and folly with tens of thousands (if not millions) of lives.
I will be keeping you updated if something major happens here, or I should say, when.
Our prayers go with all of you.February 13, 2016 at 2:46 am #47227
Thanks for the update Proteus. It sounds like the deterioration is accelerating. i hope you are taking whatever actions you can for your own survival.
Edited to add a question for you. Early on with the economic problems I remember reading about a trend for young people to be leaving the cities and moving to the countryside if they had family with land or if they could afford to buy some land. Has that continued?
February 13, 2016 at 5:56 am #47232
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by MountainBiker.
Two take-aways from Proteus’ post that seem particularly applicable to other discussions on the SHTF Forum:
It doesn’t take a genius to imagine what will happen here if Greece gets isolated with closed borders and all these thousands of desperate and angry people from all sides have to survive…possibly by committing crimes or attempting to wipe each other out. Starvation, unemployment and other things will affect survival and possibly total instability will ensue within months.
Of course, it is rather doubtful whether the NATO thing here is about tiny Greece … . Judging from the past, all it takes is a few wrong moves and the whole game shifts into gear into its pre-ordained orbit, which most likely involves economic wipeout through conflict and resetting. Forgetting history will condemn us to repeat it.
I am very sorry that most of the big players believe the odds are good for them winning solo.
Much of this is, indeed, a proxy war with the appearance of Turkey, Syria, Greece, etc., being the “important” things to watch from a “news” standpoint (though Greece is getting entirely suppressed in at least the American media). In fact, it’s about the much bigger players – US, Russia, and now even China. As Proteus said, WWIII is not a stretch at all, these days – just the wrong move, followed by the wrong response, and it could all head south very quickly.
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."February 13, 2016 at 6:48 am #47233
One question I have for you, Proteus, is the Schengen issue. By that I believe I’m understanding you to say that you’re concerned about what will happen if Greece pulls out of the non-passport open border agreement. Would that be a problem because then you would be stuck with your current influx of “refugees?” Please explain how you meant that concern. I admit to not being entirely “up” on that issue, so I don’t understand all the ramifications of pulling out. Or is it that the rest of Europe will cut you out and you’ll be stuck not being able to get rid of the influx?
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."February 14, 2016 at 12:52 am #47258
The trend I mentioned before has curbed somewhat, due to less money circulating and people having difficulty to make large purchases (there are always exceptions, but I am talking about the general trend). Young people try their best to move in with parents and / or grandparents whenever possible, and if they can do this in the countryside, then all the better for them. The unemployment rates are nowhere near the “official” numbers and I can see no solution in the near future; if anything, as businesses continue to close, it’s gonna get worse. Countryside can still support people but unless large investments take place, it won’t create jobs out of thin air and unfortunately this government has done nothing at all on that matter (or any other, to be frank).
Greece wouldn’t want to pull out of the Schengen but others seem to try to force the country to do that, since there’s no official legal way to expel a member state (unless they make up some new rules). The whole thing is problematic because of the refugees / immigrants that would get trapped in here. Imagine if they are blocked from leaving Greece (either forwarded to some approved destination or returned to the country of origin) but at the same time, greater numbers entered through the borders, causing an increasing mass that would end up suffocated within a small enclosure (a small country that is bankrupt, with huge unemployment, corruption issues and various social pressures) – the result would be catastrophic. The people in other EU countries who actively support the notion that Greece should be kicked out of Schengen do it for their own benefit, hoping that their borders would be safer since the matter would end up with Greece being the receiving end of all this. The truth, however, is very different. They would still have no control over the borders of all the neighboring countries (unless they could somehow control the entirety of sea, land, mountain passes etc), so shipments of people could still sneak through. So perhaps the numbers would lessen (for them) but still, many would get through. Greece however would be folding under the tremendous pressure and as several people think, that is the target since there are plans in place for “forceful mingling”… whatever they plan, I cannot be sure but I surely don’t buy that this is a good solution for all involved. It seems to me as if they’re saying, screw a member state, as long as we’re covered. It’s short-sighted and as time will most likely prove, it solves nothing but will stir more trouble.
There’s also the hesitant tightrope of choosing between East and West, or a mixture of both. The latter seems out of the question as both major players would favor exclusivity on behalf of Greece. Since the politicians at the moment are generally shown to be weak, the major players seem to coerce (or perhaps blackmail) the country to choose sides with regards to Syria and Middle East. Greece has signed contracts and has major deals with NATO and allied countries and now it seems someone is eager to get the oil and gas reserves in the Aegean. Turkey seems adamant to have a piece of the action and every time there’s some deal to be done with Eastern collaborations, then Turkish threats are unleashed so that Greece gets back in line. It’s not the most interesting with regards to predictability, since this has been going on for more than two decades, but this time certain factions seem to want to go on a global incentive to “take all”. Although I’m no prophet, there are times when a business deal is no longer profitable, nobody backs down and that’s when armageddons take place. Let’s hope we don’t live to see one.March 8, 2016 at 12:29 am #47758
I’ve been reading about the debt bubble getting ready to burst in Europe. I suppose this will be a trigger.
“Grexit back on the agenda again as Greek economy unravels”March 25, 2016 at 10:21 pm #47995
Greetings everyone. As 74 pointed out, it is quite possible that Grexit happens, no matter what assurances they say on the news. Partly due to failing on what’s agreed and partly due to inherent flaws with regards to policies applied, the entire structure could implode if they keep mismanaging it.
The situation here hasn’t changed much since one month ago, with the exception of the refugee problem and about 50,000 being currently “trapped” within Greece’s borders. So far, the NATO ships have done very little to deter new shipments enter the islands, so let’s hope this changes soon enough, or many more could arrive, creating a humanitarian catastrophe as things unravel more down the line.
Unemployment rises, the current economic measures seem to be failing to gather resources, and the average man on the street curses the government more and more. Anger outbursts happen more often, and some “anti-establishment squads” of well-equipped anarchists have been spotted causing issues and damages to property, cash machines, two subway stations etc. They even marched branding weapons, (there’s images of them doing that, currently under police scrutiny). Civilians are annoyed by such displays but their hands are tied since they risk being seriously injured or worse if they get involved against such groups. They threaten with similar actions like that and several people are concerned that at some point, there could be casualties.
I wonder if this is but a taste of things to come in the coming months.
I don’tMarch 26, 2016 at 2:21 am #47997
and some “anti-establishment squads” of well-equipped anarchists have been spotted causing issues and damages to property, cash machines, two subway stations etc.
That seems to just further confirm the concept of a purely evil force, bent on destruction, not solutions. It’s not about building the future in this or that faction’s vision of what’s best – it’s about destroying ANYthing that exists – the very worst definition of anarchy. It’s a very real force, and it’s being seen almost everywhere – whether it’s Ferguson, Missouri, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Greece, South Africa, the rest of Europe, or wherever. They’re everywhere, and they cannot be negotiated with successfully.
I’m so sorry to hear there’s been no change for the better, Proteus. But then only those naive enough to listen to politicians’ promises expected any positive changes. It would be easy to become discouraged, but there is good in the world, and I choose to focus most of my days on keeping those things in my life. It’s the Serenity Prayer:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
— [acceptance ≠ agreement]
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
— [not knowing the difference leads to crazy thinking and behaviors]
"Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."March 26, 2016 at 2:25 am #48000
Thanks for the update Proteus. I am saddened, but not surprised, that things continue to get worse.
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