Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 65 total)
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  • #33151
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Whirlibird wrote:

    The shoulder rig can be as safe as any other holster, it all depends on your drawstroke.

    Sweeping the muzzle around horizontally in an arc? Bad idea.<br>
    Not only do you cover yourself with the muzzle but anyone within that 180 degree arc.<br>
    Plus the difficulty of stopping on target.

    Instead, drop the muzzle nearly straight down as soon as it clears leather, continue the arc forward and up, you don’t cover anyone or yourself and its faster.

    Will see if I can find a video on this.

    Nice! I had not given up on the idea of a shoulder rig, and it had occurred to me that you could drop and raise up in a more conventional draw motion, safely. But faster as well? It’s almost a win-win!
    (faster than the sweep from a shoulder holster, I’d imagine. Not faster than a hip draw)

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #33152
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    If you have a horizontal holster you have a very narrow slot to keep the muzzle pointed away from your body. Lifting your weak arm helps but the first 8-10 inches of travel are 2 inches from your chest until the muzzle is pointed down.

    edit: A strong side waist carry is much safer when your attacker is within contact range. The attacker can be fended off using the weak arm with a palm strike to the face while drawing the gun.The gun can be brought on target at waist height. The arc of the muzzle travels from the down position to a forward position. If the attacker hits or grabs your arm the gun is pointed in a relatively safe direction.

    Using a shoulder holster with a horizontal hold, the gun is pointed backward toward your body at chest height when it clears the holster. Under the same conditions if the attacker grabs your gun arm, the muzzle can easily be redirected toward your body. Your strong arm gun hand is in a weak position across your chest closer to the attackers reach. Contact anywhere on your arm at that point could direct the gun at yourself.

    #33173
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Each and every carry position has it’s positives and negatives. All of the “what ifs” can be mitigated with good situational awareness. For me it would be a winter carry and possibly a “dress-up” carry situation. ALL are good points to consider…

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #33187
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Actually the movements are different than you describe, especially when you move into a firing or fighting position,

    I’ll have to find that video.

    #33198
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Ok Whirly,
    I’m not trying to say don’t use one. Just know the issues. I can’t say I can follow your logic though. The gun is at chest level pointed 180 degrees from the target. The gun starts against your chest.

    #33208
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Wore one for ten years straight with my backup gun. Still use one regularly.

    As you start your draw, you don’t stand there like a mannequin, you either step forward with your off leg or drop your primary leg back into a fighting (Weaver) stance. Your off hand is brought up to fight, to defend your head, etc, between the two you have just reduced the movement of the gun by 80-90 degrees. This also moves the arm out of the line of the draw as well as reducing the distance you have to reach for the gun.

    As the gun is drawn, the muzzle and the arm is dropped and the wrist twisted to bring the muzzle on target. It’s surprisingly quick and easy with a little practice.

    Depending on circumstance, such as this AM where it was -9F and belt holsters are buried under layers of insulated clothing, the shoulder rig may be the only practical means of carrying a fighting gun.

    At muzzle contact distances, an aggressor can just as easily get a hold of your belt holstered gun, especially from behind. And one thought, the first place bad guys (and good guys) look for guns? Behind the right hip. The Cops and most CCW carriers carry their guns there.

    #33214
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Galco, Miami classic eh Whirlibird. Under the arm barrel back, two magazine upside down on the right. although I.ve never heard of anybody making an underarm shot its possible I suppose. lol

    #33216
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7

    Whatever ccw you choose. Get in the range and shoot plenty and be sure there are no issues on the new gun. And as others suggest your carry system is very important and quality ammo. Training of course.

    #33217
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Brulen, I wouldn’t lol to hard on Whirlibird. Whirlibird experience with weapons is as high as they get. I personally spend a lot of my time reading every word Whirlibird post.

    So if Whirlibird says “the first place bad guys (and good guys) look for guns? Behind the right hip.” he means it.

    I carry my gun on the right hip!!! LOL have to change that!

    #33219
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Whirly,
    Your comments are all correct. I think the discussion has been very valuable especially to people that have not thought through all of the nuances of each carry option. The strong side hip carry is not without hazards and no one should think that. The drawing technique you discribe is also a good one, however ir doesn’t mean that the gun arm can’t be grabbed and controlled, or the gun pulled from the holster by the attacker. What it does convince me of is that you are at least equally as stubborn as myself :)

    #33222
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    74, there is nothing like having two stubborn guys that have experiences posting there opinions so that others learn.

    I have learned a good deal from it.

    #33223
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Brulen wrote:</div>Galco, Miami classic eh Whirlibird. Under the arm barrel back, two magazine upside down on the right. although I.ve never heard of anybody making an underarm shot its possible I suppose. lol

    Ran an SSII for years, with a G30. It’s basically a Miami Classic with wider straps. Wore it under tailored uniform shirts or under my jacket when the temperature cooperated. Unfortunately I loaned it out and am unlikely to get it back.
    Got a Miami Classic for 1911’s also, but would avoid the modern ones, they’ve changed the safety strap to hammer down carry (stupid).

    The old “Jackass” rig that was brought back is even better for carry of the larger guns, the angle used makes them much easier to deal with.

    Never had to make an underarm shot, but I did see one made on “Mr and Mrs Smith”.

    I normally kept my hand inside my coat (arms crossed) on those occasions when getting to my belt gun wasn’t possible.

    #33224
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>freedom wrote:</div>Brulen, I wouldn’t lol to hard on Whirlibird. Whirlibird experience with weapons is as high as they get. I personally spend a lot of my time reading every word Whirlibird post.

    So if Whirlibird says “the first place bad guys (and good guys) look for guns? Behind the right hip.” he means it.

    I carry my gun on the right hip!!! LOL have to change that!

    He’s right about the right hip. I’ve had people brush up against me with a very light touch in that area and it seems as if they are checking for a pistol. Its a little annoying especially since its somewhere else, most of the time. Maybe they are curious, and then maybe not. I’ve had my pocket picked only once sucessfully, with money stolen out of my wallet. That was a relative btw.

    #33225
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Free,
    I wouldn’t change where I carried because of what Whirly said. The people that have their gun yanked from behind have displayed the gun in some fashion. Either using open carry like uniformed police or someone less careful then required. I see a lot of people that carry exposing their weapon due to clothing choice or other careless action. Shirts that cling, are to short, to tight, or near transparent are the most common issues I see. If you bend over at the waist and allow your shirt it drap over the gun it will print through. Bend the knees and keep your back straight, it will keep your garment from riding up, or draping. Plus it will save your back.

    #33227
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Will do 74, I do it with the .357 but the .380 which is smaller I carry it in front or back. Sometimes in a pocket of my pants.

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