Viewing 9 posts - 46 through 54 (of 54 total)
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  • #33623
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Folks, I do not want to come across as saying “do not prepare for a grid outage” for at least 2 reasons:

    1. It is a distinct possibility, one of the MORE LIKELY Scenarios.
    2. Even if the grid does NOT take a hit, prepping for that possibility is just as good as prepping for nearly ANY OTHER disaster. Except maybe a major health problem, but if the grid does go down, you have to be health-prepped to some extent anyway.

    So preparing for a complete and utter Grid Down Experience is a most excellent way to prep for most any problem.
    MOST (if not ALL) of 74’s info is good info, but it is nearly all “worst case” and some is maybe out of date. But in “prepping”, shouldn’t we always prepare for the “Worst Case Scenario”?

    Don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea, I am just debating some of the technical points, but
    I am on the SAME PAGE With YOU, Brother 74!!!

    :)

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #33626
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    No problem RGR. As I have said before, I think it is important for everyone to think though every aspect of preparing. Complete discussion is helpful to reveal holes in our plans and concepts. I don’t pretend to be an expert on anything or correct about everything. I just comment on what I know from experience or can research. I don’t become angry with different view points or information that could be different from what I have experience with.

    #33649
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    No that is not how high voltage works 74, it will shoot out at some points and yes some fires will happen but not all the time.

    The same amplification and reversal of power will go throw all wiring, some appliances may explode or just melt down, A/C unit compressors may explode.

    It all depends how high the amplification of power is. If we know it will fry all electronics in cars, homes and building we also know that this means there will be a high amplification of voltage which some wires will not hold up to. I see this all the time with small electric high voltage which kills the electronic appliance and I have found a wire burned out. So you can see a very high amplification of voltage of an EMP or Solar Flare. Some home wiring will hold up but cars and truck wiring is not as strong. I have seen this in cars that have had a short and the wiring somewhere fried were it had to be found.

    Also remember that many building are very well grounded for lighting so there maybe small fires but not that many. Also the systems in homes and building are made to turn off, the electric panels breakers will trip.

    #33660
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Here in Florida we have a lot of thunder storms and when on pulls up the voltage it will take the surge protector frying the surge protector. When I have opened the surge protector the wire is fried. I had on on a fitness bicycle and it when though the surge protector and fried the electronics of the fitness bicycle.

    This is an example of what can happen in an EMP attack but the amplification can be 1,000 times higher or more. Some wire will fry and some may burn the plastic covering but not the copper wire.

    I had a lighting storm hit a house on a beach where it hit the meter outside the house and the wire inside the meter all melted down and the triped many of the breakers inside the house, fried three surge protectors where one started a small fire, luck I had rented the house for a week and the renters turn off the fire.

    Can you see what a total EMP attack can do!

    #33671
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Good points, FREE… and quite valid.
    But get this, I read an account of a family of 5 or 6 getting hit by lightning in their SUV.
    Normally, one would think DOA, but this case was rather odd. No one was hurt, and before the strike, nearly all the cell phones, game boys and ipods, etc, had nearly dead batteries. After everyone figured out they were all OK, they started checking their phones, etc. and found that ALL THE BATTERIES WERE NOW FULLY CHARGED!
    Electricity is a strange and wonderful force, and unpredictable. Electrical phenomena abound throughout the universe…

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

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    #33678
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Yes this also happens to airplanes but there is a big difference between an lighting storm and a Nuclear electromagnetic pulse.

    wikipedia on Nuclear electromagnetic pulse,

    “The E1 pulse is the very fast component of nuclear EMP. E1 is a very brief but intense electromagnetic field that induces very high voltages in electrical conductors. E1 causes most of its damage by causing electrical breakdown voltages to be exceeded. E1 can destroy computers and communications equipment and it changes too quickly for ordinary surge protectors to provide effective protection against it, although there are special fast-acting surge protectors that will block the E1 pulse.
    The mechanism for a 400 km high-altitude burst EMP: gamma rays hit the atmosphere between 20–40 km altitude, ejecting electrons which are then deflected sideways by the Earth’s magnetic field. This makes the electrons radiate EMP over a massive area. Because of the curvature and downward tilt of Earth’s magnetic field over the USA, the maximum EMP occurs south of the detonation and the minimum occurs to the north.[19]

    E1 is produced when gamma radiation from the nuclear detonation ionizes (strips electrons from) atoms in the upper atmosphere. This is known as the Compton effect and the resulting current is called the “Compton current”. The electrons travel in a generally downward direction at relativistic speeds (more than 90 percent of the speed of light). In the absence of a magnetic field, this would produce a large, vertical pulse of electric current over the entire affected area. The Earth’s magnetic field deflects the electron flow at a right angle to the field. This interaction produces a very large, but very brief, electromagnetic pulse over the affected area.[20]

    Several physicists worked on the problem of identifying the mechanism of the uniquely large E1 pulse produced by a nuclear weapon detonated at high altitude (HEMP). The correct mechanism was finally identified by Conrad Longmire of Los Alamos National Laboratory in 1963.[9]

    Conrad Longmire gives numerical values for a typical case of E1 pulse produced by a second-generation nuclear weapon such as those of Operation Fishbowl in 1962. The typical gamma rays given off by the weapon have an energy of about 2 MeV (million electron volts). The gamma rays transfer about half of their energy to the ejected free electrons, giving an energy of about 1 MeV.[20]

    In a vacuum and absent a magnetic field, the electrons would travel with a current density tens of amperes per square metre.[20] Because of the downward tilt of the Earth’s magnetic field at high latitudes, the area of peak field strength is a U-shaped region to the equatorial side of the nuclear detonation. As shown in the diagram at the right, for nuclear detonations over the continental United States, this U-shaped region is south of the detonation point. Near the equator, where the Earth’s magnetic field is more nearly horizontal, the E1 field strength is more nearly symmetrical around the burst location.

    At geomagnetic field strengths typical of the central United States, central Europe or Australia, these initial electrons spiral around the magnetic field lines with a typical radius of about 85 metres (about 280 feet). These initial electrons are stopped by collisions with other air molecules at an average distance of about 170 metres (a little less than 580 feet). This means that most of the electrons are stopped by collisions with air molecules before completing a full spiral around the field lines.[20]

    This interaction of the very rapidly moving negatively charged electrons with the magnetic field radiates a pulse of electromagnetic energy. The pulse typically rises to its peak value in some 5 nanoseconds. Its magnitude typically decays to half of its peak value within 200 nanoseconds. (By the IEC definition, this E1 pulse ends 1000 nanoseconds after it begins.) This process occurs simultaneously on about 1025 electrons.[20] The simultaneous action of the very large number of electrons causes the resulting electromagnetic pulses from each electron to radiate coherently, thus adding to produce a single very large amplitude, but very narrow, radiated electromagnetic pulse.

    Secondary collisions cause subsequent electrons to lose energy before they reach ground level. The electrons generated by these subsequent collisions have such reduced energy that they do not contribute significantly to the E1 pulse.[20]

    These 2 MeV gamma rays typically produce an E1 pulse near ground level at moderately high latitudes that peaks at about 50,000 volts per metre. This is a peak power density of 6.6 megawatts per square metre.

    The ionization process in the mid-stratosphere causes this region to become an electrical conductor, a process that blocks the production of further electromagnetic signals and causes the field strength to saturate at about 50,000 volts per metre. The strength of the E1 pulse depends upon the number and intensity of the gamma rays and upon the rapidity of the gamma ray burst. Strength is also somewhat dependent upon altitude.

    There are reports of “super-EMP” nuclear weapons that are able to exceed the 50,000 volt per metre limit by the nearly instantaneous release of a burst of much higher gamma radiation levels than are known to be produced by second-generation nuclear weapons. The reality and possible construction details of these weapons are classified and unconfirmed in the open scientific literature.[21]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

    #33684
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Also undeRGRond, remember that all the large transformers are always getting hit by lighting storms and the lighting doesn’t destroy them but they know for a fact that an EMP or Solar Flare will destroy the transformers.

    #33727
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Sure, Free… I was just saying that there is so much that is unknown about electrical disturbances.
    If we were able to construct a huge capacitor bank that has nearly immune to arc-over, these forces could partially be captured. Similar to what happened with the lightning strike and device batteries.

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #33811
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    One more “unexpected” geomagnetic storm on the 7th. Nice auroras if you live in a place you can see them.

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