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  • #47134
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Anyone ever make a Mosin into a Cooper type scout rifle?

    I have two that are just missing their stocks, one of which has the barrel cut down to 16″. Since it has been “bubba’ed” already, I was thinking about making one into a scout type rifle. I did just get some go/no-go gauges to check the head space. Also plan on lashing it to a fence post and pull the string with some twine the first several times it goes bang – just in case. If these all work correctly, I was considering doing the following:

    Was looking at the Archangel stocks so that it has a detachable mag.
    Also was looking at the S&K scope mount.
    And a simple scout style scope like this Vortex.

    What do you guys think?

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #47137
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    The real issue is picking what you believe is the correct scope. The rifle as long as it is fairly accurate now will only be better with a scope. The scout scope selection is limited but if you add in hand gun scopes it will give you a more options.

    Getting the correct eye relief is the first issue. Then selecting the most appropriate magnification. I believe exit pupil is important. If I the pupil is small getting lined up with the scope could be slow.

    I have a 4x Leupold handgun scope on a Swedish Mauser. I built when the guns were going for $75.00. (So if thete is a purist reading this hold your fire). I found the gun can shoot much better then a 4 power scope allows, do I want more magnification. The exit pupil is smaller then I’d like. The scope has more eye relief then I want. My scope is not good in low light with a 1″tube and 24mm objective lens.

    I had Millet rings on it until about 2 years ago, and switched to a tactical forward one-piece mount. I modified my sight base to accept picatinny rail mounts.

    I’m thinking about switching to a Burris 3X13 32mm so I can take advantage of the long range accuracy on the rifle and still have fast cqb ability.

    [attachment file=”IMG_20160208_160529.jpg”]

    [attachment file=”IMG_20160208_160609.jpg”]

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    #47142
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    74,

    Thank you for your reply and things to think about. That is a nice looking setup you have.

    The reason I was looking at scopes actually labeled as “scout scopes” was due to the same reasons you mentioned. It is hard to find something with that long of an eye relief that will still be functional…. The two I found that I liked were the one listed above by Vortex and one by Burris (both of which I get discounts on). Since this is going to be a “rough and tumble” gun that I am building, the warranty on the Vortex seemed like a better way to go, especially at the price.

    I have used scout builds that used pistol scopes and I didn’t like them as well as the actual scout scopes. For some reason I kept having issues with seeing through them. It was probably just me, but it was still a problem.

    In doing some research, I am concerned about both the action being smooth enough and the issues with the rimmed ammo on the Mosin. Both of which are well known and documented challenges to this rifle. Anyone try an Archangel stock on one and did that help the action issues? I heard tell that the wood stocks seemed to cause a bind when operating the bolt because of the odd angle for operation caused by the straight line wood stock. Anyone try the different stock and see a difference?

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #47146
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    I abandoned my interest in replacing the 4x scope and bought a 308 AR. Bolt guns are so passé, :)

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    #47158
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    Agree with comments on scopes. Rather than using an SKS scope mount. There are several Mosin Nagant specific mounts that replace the rear sight. Easy to install and very stable in my experience.

    Just found an inexpensive copy that had a bad stock and almost no blueing. The good news is bore is pretty near spotless. Plan on an Archangel Stock also, and coating the barrel to match.Looking forward to a fun winter project.

    #47161
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    74,

    Got several semiauto battle rifles. The Mosins will be vacuum sealed and stored away with a couple cans of ammo. Of course there will be some playing here and there, but I have more than enough firearms to allow me the opportunity to store back several without causing me any issues.

    Roadracer,

    I definitely am not going to use an SKS or PU type mount. Check out that link I posted to the S&K mounts. They look really nice and have gotten good reviews from what I have seen. Actually look nicer than any other options like the Rock Solid and Brass Stackers.

    *************
    This was my train of thought – summarized:

    Now that I have several storage units strategically placed as caches around my area I thought that these would be great SHTF cache stock.

    The reality is that I don’t need to build these rifles. I have enough firearms to cover me in any condition (except, I do NEED a CZ 550 American Safari Magnum in .375 H&H). These Mosins have literally been sitting under a piece of furniture for several years. I paid $100 for a box of “gun stuff” which included a V24 8mm Mauser (BRNO action), these 2 M44 Mosins (complete action/barrel/trigger – need furniture), some assorted wood furniture parts for various rifles, various parts for AK, AR, 1911, CZ 75, 870 and a few unidentifiable rifle bolts.

    These are just gravy…….

    *****************************

    Now for why I was thinking scout style:

    I really don’t want a standard type scope setup. It changes it to more of a hunting rifle and less of a “crossover” rifle for combat/hunting. If I go with a scout scope at only 2.5 power low, I can shoot like I was trained in the military and less like I was taught when hunting as a kid. The 7 power top end will allow me to hunt at range with it if needed.

    Considering this will be a “crossover” type rifle that I can hunt with (thus the Russian 30-06 type caliber) or defend myself if I lose my other options, I kind of like the scout idea. Yes, this is a possible throw away or trade away combat/hunting setup that I won’t cry if it gets stolen, is going to be stored and forgotten to some degree, but will cover my arse if I have to have it (them – there are 2)…..

    http://ageofdecadence.com

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    #47167
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    I figured you were setting these up with a specific purpose in mind, and a good one at that. For my own gun I just don’t want to put more money into it. I think I will follow suit with your thinkng and set up a cache using the M96.

    #47904
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Here is the first one that I left with open sights. I like how the M44 style fits in these Archangel stocks. It really gives a good feel to the rifle and the magazines seem to cycle well if you are oil them up (internally).

    The other one is going to a guy I know with a lathe that is going to fix the poorly cut down barrel and put a target crown on it. Once I get that back I will get another stock and set it up with optics.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

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    #47907
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    That’s a nice change from the old wood stock. I really like the magazine adaption. I wish they were making those stocks for my M96.

    #47909
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    These are pretty sweet. The old Swede M96’s look pretty nice and function really well when sporterized and slapped into a Bell and Carson stock. I have fired quite a few in that config. Great set ups and the 6.5 x 55 Swede cartridge is FAR more effective than shown on paper. It really is a great moose and elk rifle.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #47911
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Sled,
    The real issue is picking what you believe is the correct scope. The rifle as long as it is fairly accurate now will only be better with a scope. The scout scope selection is limited but if you add in hand gun scopes it will give you a more options.

    Getting the correct eye relief is the first issue. Then selecting the most appropriate magnification. I believe exit pupil is important. If I the pupil is small getting lined up with the scope could be slow.

    I have a 4x Leupold handgun scope on a Swedish Mauser. I built when the guns were going for $75.00. (So if thete is a purist reading this hold your fire). I found the gun can shoot much better then a 4 power scope allows, do I want more magnification. The exit pupil is smaller then I’d like. The scope has more eye relief then I want. My scope is not good in low light with a 1″tube and 24mm objective lens.

    I had Millet rings on it until about 2 years ago, and switched to a tactical forward one-piece mount. I modified my sight base to accept picatinny rail mounts.

    I’m thinking about switching to a Burris 3X13 32mm so I can take advantage of the long range accuracy on the rifle and still have fast cqb ability.

    Exit pupil is important with regards to light-gathering of the scope and how much of it is transmitted through the scope to your eye via the eyepiece. This is how “bright” the image appears to be to you.

    Since your eye itself is only capable of passing “X” amount of light, anything over and above that is useless since your eye is incapable of processing the extra…

    Shooting Times has a good article on it. Fair use quote:

    It is tempting to conclude that the largest obtainable exit pupil is the most desirable. But that’s not always the case. The catch is that the pupil of a normal human eye opens to a maximum diameter of 5mm to 7mm, depending on the individual, even in extremely dark surroundings. Exit-pupil diameters that exceed about 7mm deliver more light than your eye can accept.

    http://www.shootingtimes.com/optics/optics_opticpupil_061907/

    Now granted, this is a quote of a much larger article, but it backstops my point. In fairness, a large exit pupil does give you greater freedom of where you position your eye along the “axis of bore” of the scope – with older scopes, you had to position yourself in a pretty specific spot to have everything correct. This could be considered the “X” and “Y” axis of the equation.

    Eye relief is the distance from your eye to the eyepiece – call this the “Z” axis. This should be set by another person. Preferably someone who knows what they’re doing.

    How I set eye relief for a customer:

    1. Mount the bases and rings as normal, using scope alignment rods as a stand-in for the scope. Remove rods and upper ring halves, leaving lower ring halves attached.
    2. Have the customer close his/her eyes and then shoulder the rifle. Keep eyes closed and get comfortable on the stock.
    3. Place scope loosely in the lower ring halves. Have customer open their eyes.
    4. CUSTOMER MUST NOT MOVE!
    5. Slide scope back and forth until image fills eyepiece exactly, and no more. Customer feedback is critical at this point – you cannot set the eye relief properly without it.
    6. Once image is good, mark location on scope with white grease pencil.
    7. Remount scope using grease pencil reference marks and small bullet levels, making sure scope is plumb, square and true to axis of bore and rifle.
    8. Use optical collimator and proper spud to bore-sight scope.
    9. Have customer zero rifle at a measured 100m using their preferred ammo.

    I guarantee you if these steps are taken, you will hit what you are aiming at – provided you do your job and don’t gaff the shot… “buck fever” and all…

    This isn’t an effort to showcase my knowledge of All Things Firearms, nor is it meant to diminish your own knowledge – it’s just that I don’t like seeing people with “scope eye” due to improperly mounted scopes.

    It also does not take into account folks “hunching up” on the scope. In their excitement, they scooch closer to the scope and when they squeeze one off, get smashed in the orbit of the eye by the eyepiece. Bleeding, black eye, all sorts of bad things… which also unconsciously imprints on people and they start getting “flinchy” or even go so far as to scoot way back from the scope in an effort to not get punched in the face… they don’t even know they’re doing it, most times…

    To keep from “hunching up” on the scope, I took a small pebble and duct-taped it to the proper cheek-weld spot on the rifle stock to keep me from scooching up during fast firing…

    And, as always, you should have your come-ups and hold-overs/unders printed out and taped to the left side of the rifle stock for easy reference. I used a big old piece of acetate to seal and waterproof it. Some guys used Rite In The Rain paper for extra waterproofing and hand-wrote their come-ups, etc..

    For those who do not know or are unfamiliar, think of acetate as a 2 foot wide piece of clear packing tape. Cut to fit.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

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