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  • #12710
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    John Mosby is the genuine article. I’ve followed his blog, off and on, over the last year or so. He’s rough around the edges, like most of us soldiers are, and he’s not for everyone.

    BUT! If you need to learn how to grow crops, you learn from a farmer. If you need to learn how to fix a car, you ask a mechanic. If you need to learn how to fight, you ask a soldier.

    Mosby is foul mouthed and rough, but he is a good man. His article on developing a predisposition for effective violence is spot-on and outstanding. I urge all of you to read it and take it to heart.

    “It doesn’t matter if you’re a Christian who follows the adage of “turn the other cheek.” Intra-species violence is—truthfully—one of the most natural acts of human kind. Christ may have said turn the other cheek, but I’d point out, his daddy only created you with two cheeks…..what do you do after you’ve been *****-slapped on the other side? Same thing he did in the temple. You beat the **** out of the offenders, and drive them off with weapons.

    For us heathen non-believers? The archaeological and historical record is amply clear that there is NO inherent genetic resistance to stabbing a motherf*&^%r in the face, chopping his head off with sword or axe, or burning his house down around his ass.”

    LMAO!! :) Been awhile since I heard anyone speak like that…. I miss it. And it’s one of the reasons why I like the guy. There is very little ambiguity in what he says…

    Harsh language warning to you delicate flowers not used to rough talk…

    http://mountainguerrilla.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/developing-a-pre-disposition-for-effective-violence/

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #12909
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Thanks Malgus for the link to Mosby. I’m don’t like to think I am a delicate flower. Not having been in the military however it is hard for me to understand why the culture seems to have developed so much swearing and be-littleing (is that even a word?) manner used to communicate. I’m not critical of it, and sometimes yes it is funny and makes me laugh. But as I say, never having been in the military, I would be hard pressed to speak or write in the same manner, the ‘lingo’. He creates unnecessary division sometimes in this manner – and that’s too bad. He has much to share.

    I certainly admire Mosby, and am impressed with his background – no doubt he has experience to be learned from as I did from his article. But personally I wonder if he might not be ten times more effective and reach and educate more people if he ‘spoke’ in his writings in a ‘quieter’ voice. His background speaks for itself – it is deadly. In my mind, although I know you enjoy it being ex-military yourself, if he left out the ‘morons’ and most of the swearing he’d be much easier to read. It is jarring (not shocking or off putting necessarily). It’s the constant use perhaps?

    I think that is why the Dirty Harry movies were so popular – the character – you knew his abilities no questions. But he spoke softly (ha – most of the time) yet carried a very big stick. Just my cheap two cents

    #12945
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    It’s interesting how people have grown to think we are docile by nature. Watch young kids on a playground and you will see human nature at work. The words MINE, GIMME and NO come to mind. I liked his analogy of Christ. We as Christians are called to turn the other cheek but we were never intended to be door mats. Again conditioning. I believe violence is 90% mental. You just have to get beyond the thought. Pulling the trigger or throwing a punch are just movements. Good stuff Malgus.

    #12958
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    But isn’t it ‘what’ compels one to pull the trigger, throw a punch such a difference in we humans?

    #12971
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Sorry but I’ve read similar/better from other and dare I say, less foul instructors.

    Yes there is a place for ‘blue language’ but hardly appropriate in an informative article unless discussing tactical swearing.

    I spent 10 years behind a badge, I’ve heard it all, been called everything under the sun, you can’t offend me with your language. However, if the only vocabulary you have is profanity, I tend to wonder how little you actually know when your vocabulary is so limited.

    As for military service, it is commendable but doesn’t always convert to ‘real life’ situations.
    I’ve worked and dealt with a number of vets in various situations, and there have been a number of ‘civilian’ situations where the military mindset and thought process were completely wrong.

    Several classes I’ve attended and put on, I’ve had ex-mil guys show up with full out tactical gear, ready for taking Mogadishu rather than dealing with a home invader or skunk at 3am. Great for post-SHTF battles over canned peaches I’m sure, but hardly appropriate for much of real life.

    Choosing the appropriate gear, tools and even language is something everyone has to deal with.

    As to the appropriate use of violence, getting used to violence or more accurately, getting your mindset to the point of being able to commit violence does take some time and often some effort. For some, they just aren’t going to get to that point. My youngest is not going to be one who will be ‘violent’, she just doesn’t have it in her, my eldest daughter? Katy bar the door, don’t let her out. She ever lets go, it isn’t going to be pretty for anyone.

    #13074
    Profile photo of JohnSouth
    JohnSouth
    Survivalist
    member1

    No way to learn without doing and some people have a gift for it, others not.

    Some docile people you can push them and they will snap at some point.

    But most people have to be pushed and life is very safe these days in many places.

    #13079
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Whirlibird – thanks for putting your uears of experience in a thoughtful, well written  post that I was incapable of so eloquently expressing. Yeah for ypu amd however u jabe raised here…wi

    L stand her in good stead I am sue

    #13080
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    So sorry fat  fingers getting used to new tablet

    #13088
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    I hate it when that happens :)

    #13126
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Whirl,

    I will pay you the compliment of being blunt.

    My last enlistment was as an MP. I’ve stacked on the door, apprehended offenders, done walking patrols where the main goal is meet-n-greet the folks who live in the community and so create bonds between “them” and “us” – the whole “proactive policing” thing… I’ve worked patrols in some of the shittiest, most violent places in Central America, endured riots and eventually ended up a PSD puke – a glorified bullet catcher with cool toys – for some very important people, including SecDef.

    And here’s the blunt part – most cops, I loathe. The “them” vs “us” mentality. They refer to citizens as “mundanes” and have nothing but sneering contempt for them. I return the favor. Our police have become what the Founders feared the most – a standing army.

    Militarized, with body armor, Kevlar, chemical weapons, explosives, automatic weapons us mere mortals aren’t allowed to possess unless we have every orifice inspected by the Almighty Government – even me, who held a TSSCI clearance, has to submit to this, while “the police” – including some rube with a HS education, a badge and a gun and not much else – don’t have to. They have tanks. WTF does a police department need with a goddamned TANK? And don’t blow smoke up my ass with that “hostage rescue” or “necessary for the safety of citizens” BS… ain’t nobody buying that hot garbage. Bunch of ‘roided-up thugs is what they are. Street gangs all dress the same, speak in their own language, all go armed, all will rob you and WILL kill you given the right circumstances. And how is this different than the average police force? The only difference is that “police” rob and kill citizens under color of law. And they have nicer toys. (I find it darkly funny that the concept of the Olde Tyme “Peace Officer” is dead and gone, replaced by some thug with a badge who – armed with at least two firearms, a tazer, an ASP, body armor, a shotgun in the rack in the front seat and a true select-fire automatic Assault Rifle in the trunt, PLUS a radio to call for his friends if he gets stuck – that that guy would be so “afraid” of an unarmed citizen that they will beat them unconscious while yelling “STOP RESISTING!”, as if that bullshit weak-sauce Jedi Mind Trick is going to convince anyone watching his actions.

    (Read recently about some narcotics puke who curb-stomped a innocent, handcuffed, unarmed man in his own kitchen because “he was afraid”. Of course, Mr. Badass in his ninja suit, he had a loaded shotgun pointed at the guy he curb stomped – but he felt the need to stomp him so hard, he knocked out teeth, impacted other teeth and broke the guy’s jaw… it was so egregious that another one of the ninja’s actually broke the Blue Line and testified against Mr. Badass during the trial… and Mr. Badass, the dirtbag who curb-stomped an innocent man, even with testimony incriminating him – he walked away scott free. Free to stomp more handcuffed, unarmed citizens at the point of his shotgun…reading **** like that makes me physically ill. And it’s NOT an “isolated incident”).

    You look at Mosby and sniff about his use of blue language, as if that somehow negates his message or what he is trying to teach. An ad hominem attack if ever there was one. I look at him and see in him the same cut of cloth my old instructors were cut from – crusty old Nam vets who drilled lessons into our heads every day in an effort to keep us alive. I can look past the harsh language and see what Mosby is teaching, realizing that he and a few others like him are trying to impart knowledge and skills to folks who don’t possess them – skills that will be needed in the very near future.

    The military mindset isn’t applicable to every situation. That’s not what Mosby is teaching. What he’s teaching is how to meet violence with violence and defeat your opponent. It’s not hostage rescue or a cat in a tree or some douche on a ledge threatening to jump… There is no one way to meet every situation, and Mosby knows that. He’s not saying anything like that.

    A shame that your takeaway from his article is that his message isn’t legitimate because of the language he uses and that you misinterpret what he’s saying as a “one size fits all” solution for a complex world…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #13157
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    You will note that I never said that his message wasn’t legitimate or useful. I did say that I’ve read and heard the same from other instructors,  meaning the message wasn’t bad, just the delivery.

     

    As to all the LEO’s packing full auto, I can say that in my current county, the entire number is two. And both are in admin hands,  never to see daylight outside a range day.

    My previous county, there were technically 7, but everyone had been converted to semi only, for liabiloty reasons.

    How do I know? I work on the current county/city guns and previously I converted all the guns myself.

    Most places avoid full auto like Harry Reid avoids the truth. This isn’t Hollywood.

     

    I have no problem with what he’s teaching, but to reach a larger audience, like Tweva without putting them off, sometimes other methods work better.

    In my past, I had several instructors such as Mr Mosby, and his instruction style would go over like oilly footprints on new white carpet around here.

    If for no other reason than its a predominantly Mormon area.

     

    #13230
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    I have no problem with what he’s teaching, but to reach a larger audience, like Tweva without putting them off, sometimes other methods work better.

    “Other methods?” You mean a kinder, gentler, more fuzzy way teach people how to kill another human? You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, don’tcha? You think people who can’t handle or are “put off” by strong language are going to be able to handle killing another human being? I’m not talking about some beat cop, I’m talking about a worst-case SHTF scenario.

    Example: Someone stuck in a city will have to bug out. A vehicle loaded with goodies is a rolling ATM to the Visigoths, and that 13 year old gangbanger will have no heartburn about blowing Our Hero away to get those goodies. But Our Hero might have reservations about shooting a “child”, even if they have an AK47 pointed at him or her… To think that there’s a fuzzy wuzzy way to teach someone to do what needs to be done?

    In my past, I had several instructors such as Mr Mosby, and his instruction style would go over like oilly footprints on new white carpet around here. If for no other reason than its a predominantly Mormon area.

    What’s being a Mormon got to do with anything? Granted, I have zero experience with Mormons, but I was raised hard core Catholic and I adapted. Mosby has his teaching methods. Those methods work. Those who cannot adapt have a personal failure they need to overcome.

    You will note that I never said that his message wasn’t legitimate or useful.

    Did you specifically say that? No. But your tone clearly inferred it.

    I did say that I’ve read and heard the same from other instructors, meaning the message wasn’t bad, just the delivery.

    In this situation, “bad” is relative. I’ve got no problem with his delivery whatsoever and, in fact, enjoy and encourage it. Jarring people into the realization of the seriousness of what you are training to do is useful. You’re not playing solider or a game of kickball. You are training to close with and destroy someone who is trying to do the same thing to you, no matter who that person may be. It is the most serious of business.

    As to all the LEO’s packing full auto, I can say that in my current county, the entire number is two. And both are in admin hands, never to see daylight outside a range day.

    1. So, you can speak for your county. Fine. I will accept this as you are employed by your county.
    2. If those select-fire weapons are “never to see daylight outside a range day”, then why have them? What justification was used to obtain and keep them?

    My previous county, there were technically 7, but everyone had been converted to semi only, for liabiloty reasons.

    I do not understand this. You know I’m a ‘smithy, same as you. Went to school for it for two years after I separated back in 2000, as well as training I received in the military. How can something “technically” be select-fire, yet be converted to semi only? A rifle or carbine is either select fire, or it is semi-only. It can’t be both. You will have to explain this to me.

    As far as “liability” reasons, I assume this means a combination of insurance, bean-counters, issues with lawsuits, etc.

    Most places avoid full auto like Harry Reid avoids the truth. This isn’t Hollywood.

    I have a problem with this statement. You have admitted working for one county and currently work for another city/county. Probably somewhere in Utah, given the Mormon reference. So, you can speak with some authority about two counties and one city (size unknown).

    But now you say “most places”. How would you know? If you are assuming that everyone does things the way your previous employers have done, then I am assuming just the opposite.

    Why? Look at it this way – why would jurisdictions all over the US “give” their respective PD’s and SO’s armored vehicles, tanks, MRAP’s, body armor, chemical weapons, explosives, drones, etc, and NOT give them select-fire weapons? Makes no sense. Plus, I’ve seen the list of free **** (paid for by the US taxpayer) those DHS praetorian thugs (and the DOD) have “given away” over the last few years… the number and type of automatic weaponry is staggering.

    There is no way you can say “most places” avoid full auto weaponry and keep a straight face.

    And not to pick nits Whirl, because I actually like ya, but I noticed that you avoided everything I have said about the militarization of our police forces and the Old Time “Peace Officer” being replaced by roided up thugs. Which means, to me, that I can infer you either
    a) agree with me but don’t want to say anything or
    b) you know it’s true, don’t like it, but know a counter-argument will get no traction

    So, you focused on the one part of my argument where you thought you could get traction, and ignored everything else…

    Just answer me this one question: When did things go from “protect and serve” (which could, and often did, mean that the Peace Officer give his life so that a citizen might live) to “all officers go home safe at the end of their shift”? See, to me that represents a paradigm shift – it used to be about protecting citizens, even at the cost of your own life. Now it’s about going home safe, no matter what – and that by default automatically includes screwing over citizens so you can go home.

    And that’s pretty piss-poor.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #13235
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    I’m separated from LE, injury.

    I do all the smithing for the PDs and the SO where we moved to just like the ones where we moved from.

    The liability is a concern most places and all the armorers and smiths I used to associate with and still do, @50 that are still attached, have converted al their guns to semi only, the danger and lawsuits make this highly desirable.

    Won’t see the light of day? I know our admin guys, they haven’t pulled their rifles out in years and don’t handle hot calls. They have them because they won’t bring them in for conversion, the cool factor.

     

    The roided up thugs like Dorner and the like, I don’t like them either, can’t abide them. The bonus, around here we still have Peace Officers, our Sheriff is adamant about his guys conduct and methods, there’s a reason he’s up for his 5th term. Respect for him and his department.

    The militarization of LE, there’s a number of reasons, both good and bad. I tend to avoid this subject as it tends to inflame everyone regardless of which side they believe.

    One reason I avoid the subject is the lumping of all LE together, regardless of location or personnel. Guys like you despise, so did we, we ran them out when they applied. I worked with old timers, they taught me the old ways and methods, good and bad. These same guys are ranchers and farmers, several don’t carry a gun off duty and even went on calls without their gunbelt on.

    Part of the problem stems from the new generation of cops, guys back from Afghanistan and Iraq,  they can’t get the .mil training out of their heads and it effects how they do the job, as well as what they use. I did a class recently involving some .mil guys transitioning to LE work, during a building search portion one guy was explaining why he had thrown a dummy flashbang into the children’s room. Needless to say, he didn’t get hired, I called the chief who recommended he take the class.

     

    The Mormon factor,  they’re very conservative in many ways, don’t drink, don’t swear, etc. So I go out of my way in classes to not swear, yet show reason and cause to become violent.

    I don’t use “war stories” as such in my classes but news articles that are pertinent, such as child abductions, rape, and the like to get peoples awareness and blood up. These are the situations I use in scenarios, and believe me when I say it is effective.

    The training that works for one group, doesn’t always work for all, but its a lot easier to add tactical swearing in than to take it out for different groups.

    The .mil gear, we had a little, but most of what we had was cots and the like for emergencies. having lived in tornado country, that was a much bigger threat than anything else normally.

    What big cities grtm the MRAPs and such, there is a reason beyond the cool factor, it goes back to the North Hollywood shootout and the sheer number of bank robberies that happen. Some places they are almost normal getting little fanfare in the news, and nobody wants to repeat what happened there in any way. So instead of spending hundreds of thousands on an armored vehicle or refurbishing an old brinks truck, that free MRAP is a cheap solution.

    Does every department need one? Of course not. But some places? Maybe.

    The NVDs? Not long before I left, there was an escape of a federal prisoner, the manhunt lasted overnight, it would have been nice for those involved to have had at least one NVD to check the fields and such for the bad guy.

    Factor in the rise of the gangs and such, looking at the Nuevo Laredo gjnfight, one can easily see the reasons that LE in some areas wants to step up what they have and have access to.

    One of my deputies framed a reprimand. He was dinged for driving too fast after a county commissioner complained. Didnt matter that he was transporting a heart attack victim to the hospital. Risking his life and his families future for someone he didn’t know. How fast was he going? I clocked him at 130 coming into town and he had been slowing down already.

    And he was the guy nobody liked, a real arsehat, but well respected by crook and citizen alike.

    I’ve seen the same in the guys here.

    Can’t comment about Chicago,  new york or other places, but out here, the Peace Officer stands.

    #13245
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Couple things.

    1. I know our admin guys, they haven’t pulled their rifles out in years and don’t handle hot calls. They have them because they won’t bring them in for conversion, the cool factor.

    Being “cool” isn’t a legitimate reason to have access to an automatic weapon. You can’t have one set of standards for one group and another set for another group. Period. Otherwise, it breeds discontent, anger, sneering resentment, “them vs us” mentality, etc. “Police” should not have access to automatic weapons at all, unless citizens have the option of owning the exact same thing using the exact same standards.

    Example: A 21 year old Sheriff’s deputy with a HS diploma and not much else has no-questions access to fully automatic weapons, while a 50 year old M.D. who lives next door – with advanced degrees, a much higher I.Q. and the ability and authority to dispense Class II drugs has to endure a “background check” by the FBI, ATF and DHS where they look up every orifice he has, tear apart the Doctor’s background, even get into his personal finances, and then, if they deem him worthy, then they grudgingly “allow” him to own what he wishes… which is 200-proof bullshit…

    2. The roided up thugs like Dorner and the like, I don’t like them either, can’t abide them. The bonus, around here we still have Peace Officers, our Sheriff is adamant about his guys conduct and methods, there’s a reason he’s up for his 5th term. Respect for him and his department.

    A) The only Peace Officer specifically mentioned in the Constitution is the Sheriff. Comes from the “Shire Reeve” of England, a position which has remained unchanged for almost 1000 years. Most, not all, but most Sheriffs take their position and authority with the utmost respect for the Constitution and the citizenry. They are automatically vetted before they take office, since the Sheriffs come from the local population – if he were a dirtbag or sociopath, that would be known beforehand by the citizenry and he would not get into office by default… his kids go to school with your kids, your family knows his family, etc..

    “Police” are not. They can come from anywhere, usually the military, are not part of the local culture or citizenry, have no ties to the community, have an “us vs them” attitude and frankly, are used as enforcers by the local city council for revenue generation. Please do not insult my intelligence by denying that. You and I both know that the bean counters on City Council find out they’re going to be a little short when it comes to their budget. They tell the Mayor, who calls the Commissioner, who calls the Chief, who calls the Captains, who tells the Lieutenants to tell the Sergeants and beat cops to start writing more tickets. They might or might not know why they have been ordered to write tickets according to some quota, or they might or might not care. But there is a quota and all they do is rob citizens at gunpoint under color of law and the threat of imprisonment. A gangster is at least honest about robbing you. “Police” are not.

    One more thing – police are reactive by definition. Unless a deputy or one of the “police” are driving by at the exact instant a felony is going down, they are reactive. “Protect”? Hardly. They get there after the fact and are really good at asking questions, taking pictures and drawing little chalk outlines, but that’s it. (I know they don’t actually draw those little chalk outlines… I was throwing that out there for the funny). They don’t deal with the fallout and blowback of violent crime. They might track down and get the goon who did the nefarious deed, but they cannot prevent it from happening to you. “Protection” has “pro” in it, meaning they have to be there before the violent act occurs in order to prevent it from happening… and that is impossible…

    B) Most cops and deputies will, of course, say they detest the Dorner types. Not you, personally, but sociopaths are very, very adept liars. They can even pass polygraph tests with flying colors. You and I both know this. The sociopaths are replacing the old school Peace Officers, saying what others want to hear, but doing their own thing later on. The Peace Officer is almost extinct. We have Peace Officers as well, the genuine article, but they are going the way of the Dodo. They have to retire sometime, and departments have to replace them with someone. The only reason that douche who tossed a flashbang into a kid’s room admitted it, or tried to justify it, was because he was an inexperienced sociopath… make no mistake, he went somewhere else and learned from his mistake with you all… he is probably working as a “police officer” somewhere else right now…

    3. What big cities grtm the MRAPs and such, there is a reason beyond the cool factor, it goes back to the North Hollywood shootout and the sheer number of bank robberies that happen. Some places they are almost normal getting little fanfare in the news, and nobody wants to repeat what happened there in any way. So instead of spending hundreds of thousands on an armored vehicle or refurbishing an old brinks truck, that free MRAP is a cheap solution.

    Does every department need one? Of course not. But some places? Maybe.

    Dang it.. the wife is giving me the stinkeye and a rasher of **** about not going to the store… and I did promise I would go to the store… crap.

    Allow me the time to get to the store, buy the stuff she wants, and beat feet back here…. I got a bit more to say about MRAP’s, etc..

    Mal

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #13255
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Whirl,

    okay, back.. i’m down one thumb – burned the crap out of my right thumb on my trip to the store… don’t ask. i got an icebag and burn gel on it right now, so i’m a left handed gun for the time being…

    to continue…

    3. What big cities grtm the MRAPs and such, there is a reason beyond the cool factor, it goes back to the North Hollywood shootout and the sheer number of bank robberies that happen. Some places they are almost normal getting little fanfare in the news, and nobody wants to repeat what happened there in any way. So instead of spending hundreds of thousands on an armored vehicle or refurbishing an old brinks truck, that free MRAP is a cheap solution.

    Does every department need one? Of course not. But some places? Maybe.

    look, i watched the north hollywood shootout go down… granted, on tv like almost everyone else, but that could have been handled differently… we trained with the precision rifle to hit some very small targets under some pretty diverse conditions. The true rifle has a place in the in the peace officer’s inventory – always has. one properly trained specialist could have ended that nonsense with a minimum of fuss. zap. the end.

    what i don’t buy is the rationale for owning a tank. even an mrap. ‘hostage rescue’? yeah, right. you really think we’re stupid enough to buy that bullshit? i’ve seen one of those dhs jet black mraps up close… ablative armor, bullet resistant glass, gun ports, run flats… had ‘emergency response vehicle’ painted on the side… yeah, you ain’t foolin anybody… the dirtville sheriffs office has no need for an mrap. neither does the dirtville pd. it is the increased militarization of the police – they are being turned into what the framers feared most. a standing army. you give police the same equipment as an army, train them like the army, populate their ranks with ex-military, and pretty soon they begin to think they are a military… and this is exactly what we are seeing..

    also, i believe that it is dhs pre-positioning assets. if .. sorry, when things go to ****, you think the roads will be clear enough to deploy assets anywhere? doubtful.. only way to deploy assets would be via air. either c-17 or chinook. easier to pre-position assets now under the guise of ‘free ****’ to the various agencies around the us, while you got time…

    as far as the nuevo laredo gunfight, if we patrolled the border properly and actually enforced our own stinkin laws, we wouldn’t have to use it to justify up-arming the various pd’s… the border should be locked down and patrolled by the military – that would not violate the posse comitatus act. but a good argument could be made that the powers that be are allowing criminal cartels and other slime to cross the border and become entrenched on purpose so they can use that as justification to militarize the police… standard ‘problem,reaction,solution’ loop… create the problem, engineer the reaction and have your solution all ready to go… textbook false flag…

    and now, my left hand is plum wore out and dinner is ready…

    bbl…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

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