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  • #41234
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10
    #41241
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    Whirli,
    I was afraid the earlier post would have this effect. I am torn myself. I have several friends who are LEOs and they fit the profile of the stories you share here. The sad thing is that one “aw sh^%” erases all the “ada boys”. Unfortunately there is evil in the world and seems to be expanding its empire every day. It has spilled into places we never thought it would. We have removed God from our schools, courts, and leadership and the effects are becoming visible. I don’t want to believe that cops are turning bad but it is hard to argue with video proof. The good cops have a hard row to hoe. All I can say to them is endure to the end and you will receive a crown of glory. Take a stand and hold your fellow workers accountable and pray for them every day. God bless you Whirli.

    #41242
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    I do hold them accountable, even now that I’m out of the business.
    Perhaps more so than anyone here, because I know them and what they are capable of and who they are behind the badge.

    I defend those who are tarred and feathered with the same brush as the guilty.
    Because all too often they can’t until its too late.
    Part of the problem comes from policies that generally forbid the talking about active cases and investigations until the charges are filed, the suspect has had their day in court and so on.
    I may not like what a coworker has done, but I can’t talk about it outside the legal channels until its over. And by then everyone has made up their opinions about what happened, regardless of all the facts and statements that haven’t been heard or seen yet.

    Ferguson. The officer was tried, convicted and all but put on a platter before all the facts were known. A national craze was started because of a lie. And people joined in lock step to watch the crucifixion.

    Despite these news articles, did any of these gain national attention?
    Of course not, no controversy. Just people doing their jobs.

    Why do I care so much about this subject? Because of two of my partners who spent half an hour doing CPR on an elderly gent until the ambulance arrived. No news crews.
    Because my department and the SO spent 3 hours looking for a little 3yo who wandered off, and no one else saw the plate of cookies her mom brought as a thank you.
    Because off all the lost dogs that are brought home without notice, our code enforcement officer had “vicious” pit bulls that would just jump in the back of her car for the ride home, all she had to do was open the door.

    All everyone looks at is the bad.
    Look long enough and all you’ll see is the bad.
    Because its all you’re looking for.

    You’ll miss the young Nashville officer who quit her department over its morals and joined the army.
    You miss the officer crawling through bushes to find a lost teddy bear so a little girl can take her nap.
    You miss the officer who has to listen to a little girl talk about how the bad man touched her over and over.

    I spent my time in hell. I feel for those who are still in it everyday.
    I look at the good side because I’ve seen the bad and am still dealing with it today.

    #41246
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Problem is , for the average person ………….with it as out of control and pervasive as it is today …………..good cops are like good muslims , how do you tell the difference …………….and why take the chance . They are more concerned about their door being kicked in by mistake , being railroaded at a stop , being physically threatened , being shot in the back if they run , etc………………than they would be moving into a muslim area of town . Didnt used to be that way , why is it that way now ? shame that it is that way ………. it didnt have to be . Just Sayin .

    #41247
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Whirli:

    I can appreciate your loyalty to your former profession and those that are still on the job. There is no doubt that it is a tough job. I don’t think anyone would debate that.

    It would surprise me if even the most die hard LEO hater wouldn’t admit that some officers have to be doing their job for the right reasons. Yes, that even includes me. I really have no use for the whole LEO structure or profession as it stands today, honestly. I do understand what you are saying and think that your position is admirable.

    But a very good point has been brought up. How many times does someone have to be burned before they no longer support something?

    It is unfortunate, but my personal count for good dealings with LEO is in the single digits. This includes 4 years as a paramedic on a box, working ER with MP’s for 3 years, and as a bouncer for the last year. Almost every interaction I have had or witnessed leaves me turning around thinking, “What a douche.” This having been my experience over the course of my life I avoid cops like I avoid large groups of minorities wearing sagging britches or anything overtly Muslim. Not prejudice. Just self preservation.

    Again this is unfortunate because there needs to be better support for and from the community because as you have said it is a tough job.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #41265
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    How many times? Good question.
    3 out of 5 administrators have run me under a bus.
    Coworkers? Much better odds.

    Out of uniform?
    Oddly except for one trooper chick, all of my LE experiences have been pleasant at least, even when getting a ticket. And with my lead foot, that’s been more than a few times. And in 7 states.

    Why do I support those still in it? Because I’ve been there.
    And in different circumstances, well the saying “There but for the grace of god go I.” applies.

    Matt76, thanks for the PM.

    I have worked with the best and the worst.
    I can’t condemn them all because of a few.
    Nor can I condemn the few because of the many.

    Individuals, that’s another matter.
    I’ll even bring the rope.

    #41277
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Here is another thing , granted there are going to be some situations where a cop has no choice but to use his firearm . The problem most Americans have today is the fact that the gun is used way too much , as a first alternative instead of a last resort in too many cases . What happened to the night stick ? You see so many cases where the night stick would have been more than enough to deal with the person . Are they no longer trained in the use of the night stick and hand to hand ? If they are not , that is huge disservice to the officer and the public . Lot of other countries police are issued with a night stick only , and in our own country , in the not so long ago past , that was the preferred weapon walking a beat . They had revolvers , but pretty much only used them if the perp was armed , other than that it was the club or night stick . That is one of the many frustrations the public has with todays situation . Things like that help create the us vs. them mentality on both sides of the coin . Is it not high time that stops ? The Black population of this country could have a strong hand in reversing the problem , if they were smart enough to use the attention they get for the benefit of all Americans , instead of playing the race card . They are the most vocal about the situation and seem to get the most attention , pity they wont use that advantage for the good of all . In the coming years , the problem is going to hit critical mass with the public . You say most cops are not bad , well most people they deal with on a regular basis are not bad either ……………..so why do those people feel adversarial when dealing with cops today ? Technology is a two edged sword , but its technology that has made the problem come out of the shadows and into the light , and will have a huge hand in getting things fixed . There was once a time where people really did feel like America was indeed innocent until proven guilty , now the feeling is guilty to proven innocent . Some professions tend to attract certain types of people , stereotypes exist for a reason . Police have always tended to attract the bullies and power hungry , sort of like some of the trades tend to attract the not so bright . But in the case of LE , that needs to be screened and monitored , not to make their job harder , but because they have power , and keeping an eye on them is critical for the functioning of a free society .

    #41287
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Ah the nightstick.
    A personal favorite.

    Long a tool and symbol of authority, it is training intensive to be used properly.
    Worse yet, the use of one, all people see is someone getting beaten down, regardless of the reason. Anyone else remember Rodney King? Single blows are seldom effective, especially when the person is drunk, drugged ot nuts.

    Why the gun so quickly?
    Very simple.
    Because lethal force and SBI come in all shapes and forms, and all the bad guy has to do is be lucky with that snow shovel, that knife, that stick and suddenly he’s got a pistol and more.

    What’s that person got in their hands? A gun, pepper spray, a wallet?
    One of my old Chiefs carried a .22 mag derringer in a wallet holster, used it to get the drop on a couple muggers in the 80s.

    You point a can of pepper spray in my direction and you’re likely to get shot. I can articulate why very easily.

    What constitutes lethal force or SBI from a bad guy?
    One of my firemen was struck twice in the face while sitting in his car, ala Michael Brown.
    A fractured eye socket and 7 bones in his face broken, requiring 6 titanium plates was certainly SBI and could have killed him from a blood clot.
    Oh, yes the bad guy was ‘unarmed’.

    More to follow

    #41288
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Here is effective use of a night stick , again , like you said , training is important . Granted the cop is built like a bouncer .

    And if your really well trained …

    LOL , thats not fair , they were Spetsnaz OMOH , not regular cops . They only deal with mafia , drug lords , and hostage situations , people known to be heavily armed .
    in either case nobody got shot . Just Sayin

    #41289
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Dang tablet, lost what I wrote.

    People getting shot isn’t a problem, long as its the right people.

    Michael Brown again. Do you think that elderly gent Brown beat unconscious feared for his life from an unarmed man? Think he would have been justified in plugging Brown?

    How about these gents killed by unarmed men?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/06/family-utah-soccer-referee-who-died-after-punch-from-player-holds-vigil/

    http://mobile.vnews.com/search/12606762-108/ref-killed-by-punch-from-soccer-player-in-michigan

    Unarmed does not mean non lethal.

    I think if one looks that police shootings are down in many areas compared to the good old days, what is up is media circuses and liberal attitudes.

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