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  • #50657
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10
    #50658
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    I don’t know how you found that, but sadly it’s so FULL of truth that isn’t even remotely understood by the “west.” Even more sad is the fact that almost no one will take the time to really read, particularly if it ever turned up in the mainstream media (and it will not). It’s “too long,” “too hard to understand,” and is “best left for the professionals to figure out.”

    Ah yes … the professionals. Well return to them at the bottom. First from the article we get the following spot-on assessment:
    “Western audiences remain to this day misinformed about Arabs and Muslims.” Bingo! The winner of the entirely hidden but correct assessment of the year award.

    But the article goes further:

    This politically correct approach even infected U.S. intelligence services. In February 2011, just when the Obama administration was making crucial (and misguided) decisions on how to deal with the Egyptian crisis, James Clapper, director of National Intelligence, testified with the following astonishing assessment to Congress (which he quickly walked back):

    The term “Muslim Brotherhood” … is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam.[70]

    It is hard to catalogue the misconceptions involved in this astonishingly foolish statement.

    One cannot safely underestimate the degree to which those people will lie, maintain the lie, and not even remotely be concerned about the collateral damage to innocent people as a result of their lies. I am a first hand witness to it on multiple occasions, and to a highly significant personal degree. It has to be experienced, and then EXPLAINED to be understood. But it is a rare individual from those cultures that would be willing to explain it to a non-Moslem. So in the meantime, even our very top policy “experts” at the Middle East desk in the State Department, Pentagon, wherever, are so woefully unprepared to deal with these people.

    Yes – the article deserves multiple reads.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint GeorgiaSaint.
    #50679
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    I expected a few more comments on this one..
    Interesting.

    #50680
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    I’m also surprised. There are few topics on the A-list of important topics in this world that are less understood in the west, yet critical to BE understood, than the “logic” and “morals” of so many that claim Islam as their faith. I cannot speak with any authority at all on those that live in other parts of the world (such as Indonesia, the Philippines, etc.), but those in the middle-east, SW Asia, and north Africa, have such a radically different way of conceiving honor, honesty, morality, etc., compared to us, that it is almost literally mind-blowing to hear it actually explained. I had a highly “westernized” Iranian Air Force major explain it to me after a most troubling and amazingly bizarre incident with a young Iranian student pilot back in the mid-70s. He’d lived in the U.S. for a number of years as the Iranian liaison officer to a particular training program here in the U.S., and was married to a seemingly normal American wife. We considered him quite “cool,” because his English was so good and that he’d learned to pronounce it in a way that his accent was no problem for almost anyone, in addition to being so very easy to get along with. He supported his students, but was NEVER confrontational with the American officers in charge of the training program. He bent over backwards to be of assistance, and was someone most anyone would have been pleased to call a good personal friend.

    After the bizarre and very personally troubling incident happened with one of the students, I was worried that I’d just created a real international incident, to be honest, and was trying to figure out how to tell our boss (a full colonel) what had happened. The phone rang, it was Major _________, He told me he was already aware of what had happened just a short while earlier with the student (who I’d ejected from a final exam after the incident), and he asked me to come over to his office. Normally, I should have “lawyered up” and immediately told our commander, but there was something so calming about his demeanor I decided to go over, alone. Once there, he even referred to my by first name – NOT something he had done with any of us before that I’d ever witnessed or even heard about. He then proceeded to tell me EXACTLY what had happened with the student, and it was entirely from my perspective, making 100% sense. He smiled and asked if he could explain what REALLY happened. He proceeded to open up the mind of those in that part of the world, in a way that I “understood” (ONLY intellectually), and assured me that it was just all about honor, and that the student didn’t mean anything that he’d actually said to me. In OUR terms, the student had been speaking and acting in a coded message (my term) that we simply cannot understand, and that I should not take it personally, that I need not be worried he was going to file a complaint against me, etc., etc., etc. I suspect my jaw was on the floor that day, as the “logic” began to sink in.

    I doubt very many people have ever had that window opened to them, particularly State Department idiots that routinely bungle the most sensitive and crucial negotiations (the Iranian nuclear deal being a massively important one). Suffice it to say, it would take far longer than would be appropriate for this forum to try to explain in print, but understand that we simply have no clue what we have no clue about, when it comes to understanding their logic, whether Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or anywhere else in that region. There are layers of truth in the article you posted that are probably missed by most who did bother to take the time to read it. Yet it’s absolutely critical that our leaders and negotiators be highly “fluent” in the logic, not just the languages.

    And beyond being surprising that there seems to be no other interest here, I’m appreciative of the fact you posted it. I have a great respect and even appreciation for Moslems (not Muslims – as separately defined in another post here), but that doesn’t mean I trust them collectively, at least not in our way of thinking. IF fully understood, they can be dealt with, but I don’t know if anyone fully can, outside their own culture.

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

    #50681
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    This must be the best case I’ve ever heard against allowing multiculturalism to enter American politics.

    Thanks GS!

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of Brulen Brulen.
    #50685
    Profile photo of L Tecolote
    L Tecolote
    Survivalist
    member8

    Sorry to be late to the party; I’ve been coping with our sojourn to our eventual home in NE Ohio, not to mention the approach of age.

    That’s a great, if exhaustive explanation of the attitudinal differences between West and Mideast, or at least, between Islam and the West.

    An explanation from a slightly different, more historical approach, is a book, Production Versus Plunder by Paul Rosenberg. It was seralized, one chapter a week, at The Daily Bell website, and a brief search turned up various listings for at least most of the chapters.

    Rosenberg’s premise was that at the early beginnings of human civilization, in the famous “Fertile Crescent,” humans organized to produce their necessities, food, etc., while further south, in drier, less productive terrain, others found that their easiest shot at what they needed, was to plunder their neighbors, as opposed to producing for themselves. I presume you can figure out which societies and traditions trace from which.

    What I’d like is to understand how so many people can see the differences in what the two approaches to social organization actually yield, yet hold so fervently to the one that produces less.

    But they tell me that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Watch out for one-eyed guys with ice picks.

    Cry, "Treason!"

    #50687
    Profile photo of GeorgiaSaint
    GeorgiaSaint
    Veteran
    member9

    What I’d like is to understand how so many people can see the differences in what the two approaches to social organization actually yield, yet hold so fervently to the one that produces less.

    Communist Manifesto was not written for the masses (contrary to popular belief) – just the masters. Again, that tiny 3/4 page final chapter is the key. And forget the famous bottom line rallying cry at the very end. It’s part of the smoke screen. Call me a broken record on this one, I don’t care. The true bottom line is that it’s all about fundamental evil. The masses lap up the promises, and can’t quit – it’s an addiction. It’s just like those that simply can’t stay out of Las Vegas – you’d think they’d learn too. “Just one more time” for them is the equivalent of the political “THIS candidate’s really the one! Finally!” SSDD (SameStuffDifferentDay)

    GS
    "Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land."

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