July 24, 2014 at 7:59 pm #20068
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Malgus wrote:</div>Calm yourself, Brother Whirl…
My remarks were not bashing you, personally. They were directed towards the fact that – no matter where the “advice” comes from – in today’s litigious society, we have to resort to weasel words to keep from being sued by dickheads who get their little feelings hurt… or by those seeking to win the Ghetto Lottery, or slimy shyter lawyer types…
If anything, it is an indictment of why we can’t be honest and just say “If you’re going to pull a gun, then you better be prepared to use it. And if you use it, then you best kill the sumbitch trying to kill you.”
Honestly has no place in today’s “civil” society. That’s what I was getting at. You and I both know anyone teaching self defense carry classes has to do “the dance”, as well as formal civilian police departments because of one thing – vicarious liability. You and I both know what that is and why it just screams “TORT REFORM!”. (But, that is a whole ‘nother can of worms for another day…)
That I illustrate the point by showing that you fall into those speech patterns is not a reflection on you. You’re just CYA.
So, don’t take it personally…
Hadn’t taken it personally, just distancing myself from the badge comment and the associated negativity.
And yes those of us in the industry have to walk a fine line, the pre-SHTF answers don’t always work post, and vice versa. But the training does work for both.
And as usual, we are in agreement, just different phrasing.July 24, 2014 at 8:02 pm #20069
this video is exactly about such words as malgus and whirl are in discussion about
with running into a group contact situation depends on two things your strength vs theirs and any force multipliers, you can only expect fairness and civility if you are the one who can enforce it period. You only have to live with your decisions after wards if you are alive to regret. dead maybe only regret they didnt act more before becoming dead. The living carry the dead with them forever both the ones that die because and in spite of your actions.
having a designated trading post and waiting area marked so people can ring bell to get service means you control the field by picking location they can pick time and you have given those who wish to talk a chance to do so while in relative safety. those coming further without using such things forfeit any obligations on your part to treat them as non hostile entities.
as for Malgus suggestion of shooting another round into a dying foe… why waste ammo knife or reusable not like you will be getting a resupply.
THIS IS ONLY FOR AFTER SHFTJuly 24, 2014 at 8:08 pm #20071
<div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>freedom wrote:</div>Malgus, Good points. I just wanted to hear you brother. I will post signs. The signs are in my plan all along and do believe in the total SHTF we do not have a choice but to shoot anyone that passes the warnings. Agree.
There you go everyone Malgus is right on this one, a warning shot in a SHTF may just get you killed. This applies when the rule of law is no where to help you protect your family.
Actually the warning shot may get you killed, jailed or sued pre-SHTF in many places.
The comment every bullet has a lawyer attached comes to mind.
You fire a warning shot, it continues down the street/alley/???, and hits 6yo little girl playing in her yard, you’re liable. Ya, the crook may get charged because it stemmed from his criminal assault, but do you really want to go there?
You fire a warning shot, the nice (or arsehat) police officer responding to a previous call hears this and now you’re the one being confronted by the cops while holding a gun. Your word against the bad guys.
You fire a warning shot, there’s X number of bullets left in your gun, you need that round suddenly but it’s gone.
You fire a warning shot, it shows that you felt that you weren’t threatened enough to stop the bad guy, but still brought lethal force into the situation.
You fire a warning shot, the other bad guys now know where you are.
You fire a warning shot, just don’t.
It’s like shooting to wound.
A whole different can of worms.
Shoot to stop. If the bad guy dies, great.
If he stops what he was doing while laying there bleeding and crying for his mommy, great.
Long as he stops, great.
If not, he gets shot again until he stops his nefarious activity.July 24, 2014 at 9:00 pm #20073
Whirlibird I agree with you. You only use the force that Malgus says if there is a total collapse of the government and there is no law at all to help you. You see others being killed for food around you. This is only to be used when it is over all around you and you have to protect your life from gangs and criminals killing for food. No other reason.
As long is there is law there is no need for this.July 24, 2014 at 9:26 pm #20078
“There are many variables there, how deep is SHTF (who are they most likely) is my location my home actually etc.” Selco
I left the situation open so everyone could consider multiple variables and whether it would make a difference in the end. I really meant for a total SHTF. However that doesn’t mean someone will not want to enforce current laws later for our actions in the event.
Personally I would always want a planned escape route and probably set up an ambush if I could just to make sure I can control the event to the best of my ability. As Malgus said: “When TSHTF, I will just assume we are on a war footing. -Snip – get everyone on the same page –snip- We will control who enters and exits Malgus
.”As to 74′s scenario, it would depend. Are these Nat’l Guard or Police looking for survivors? Are they obviously looters? Did they just kill the nice little old lady down the street? Whirlybird
Well Whirly, say they are Nat’l Guard or Police but it’s SHTF and you don’t know what they are up to… Whacha-gonnado I’m curious?July 24, 2014 at 11:13 pm #20103
Depending on the situation, they’re going door to door looking for ‘survivors’, as with tornado cleanup, I’ll thank them for their time, pour a cup of freeze dried coffee for ‘em and shuffle em on.
They’re going door to door ‘hunting’, I know the tricks, methods and such, heck I teach them. The instructor doesn’t teach every trick he knows. And I know where to shoot.
Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.
Watch them, what they’re doing will be painfully obvious very quickly.
And if I’m alone, and they’re hunting, I still have my old ‘rollout’ gear with all the logos on.
A quick “this ones clear” while walking out to distract and disorient them would likely give me more than enough time to make their mothers quite sad.
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