December 18, 2014 at 6:16 pm #32399
The other day I was in Harbor Freight Tools shopping for my Father’s Christmas gift when I had a personal revelation. Harbor Freight is 99% made in China tools; it used to be that I would feel guilty buying Chinese goods. But it suddenly struck me that I felt that Americans no longer really deserve my patronage (in general!) any more than some of the poor slave workers in China. I’m sure many of you will disagree but the American people at large have disappointed me greatly as a Christian and person in general. There are a LOT of exceptions, of course.
Don’t get me wrong, there are still an innumerable multitude of things I love about this country. It’s just that feeling of ‘nowhere else I’d rather be’ has faded away. More importantly, though, I believe that SHTF will actually be at its worst here. It just seems to me that this will be one of the worst countries to be if/when it all goes down.
This then lead to the thought… why I am so intent on being here, in the United States? As this thought blossomed I began to do a little research and found there are many wonderful places to live around the globe… is there anyone else considering this as an option? This would be a huge decision and very costly, and rife with risks, but I cannot deny it has my attention. Just looking to see how others here feel.
PS feel free to call me unpatriotic or traitorous, I seriously won’t take offense.December 18, 2014 at 7:17 pm #32403
I saw a lot of this kind of thinking a few years about regarding buying local food. After a lot of soul searching, I realized buying local is really overrated… and kind-of stupid. I wrote more about my experience eating local food:
Trading with others is one of the best ways to foster understanding between different cultures. Sometimes we can only get products from foreign parts or the products are just cheaper and better quality. In the end, it’s the customer that loses out big, if they have a fetish for buying local.
Later, I learned some unique views about international trade from the mises.org. I learned about the term “rent seeking”. When the market gets politicized by the buy-local movement, rent seeking behavior and foreign tariffs become the natural outgrowth. Again, the customer ends up paying more for lower quality goods. I guess the thinking is that the customer will be paid with having his heart filled with patriotic joy at being a “good citizen” even if the local products are garbage!
DON’T become a local-buying zealot!December 18, 2014 at 7:26 pm #32406
WhiteKnight, I’m from Canada and I think it’s a good idea to have another place to go. Have you heard about the perpetual traveler movement? If not, read this. Lots of people I looking at leaving there home country or having a second or third passport:
This is not just for rich people. Lots of regular people are using some of the PT strategies. Here’s just one random video pick but there’s lots of information out there about PT strategies:December 18, 2014 at 7:56 pm #32408
Here’s a better video by about the five flags of PT by WG Hills:December 18, 2014 at 8:12 pm #32409
In my line of work, there’s nowhere else I’d have it so well off.
In no other place would my kids have the opportunities they have here.
At one time, many moons ago I considered moving to South Africa.
Thankfully both common sense and a lack of capital prevented that from happening.
Everywhere has pluses and minuses.
But in comparison to everywhere else, there is nowhere else to go.December 18, 2014 at 8:30 pm #32412
Whirlibird is right on this. I have looked at this too. When the SHTF the rest of the world will be hit too. Maybe not war but hunger will be the killer.December 18, 2014 at 8:48 pm #32414
I’ll be the contrarian here. I really do try to buy local and buy American, though admittedly sometimes I am in a rush and not as diligent as I’d like to be. Here in New England all of the farms are small family operations. The terrain doesn’t lend itself to industrial farming with hundreds or thousands of acres. Come SHTF, the thousands of trucks flowing into the Northeast every day from the MidWest will cease. To the extent we have local farms we will still have some level of food production, not enough to sustain the BoWash hordes but some is better than none. VT is the only State in the Northeast and I believe East Coast that has enough agricultural resources to feed its population and I’d just as soon retain that capability, hence I buy local farm products.
On the industrial side of things, the erosion of the middle class is a direct result of offshoring middle class jobs. Perhaps more importantly offshoring our industrial capabilities so as to make the Wall Street gang richer will bite us hard when either the dollar collapses and we can’t afford to import goods or when war cuts off the supply lines from China and elsewhere. Buying less expensive foreign made goods has come at the price of our resiliency as a country. Between their ongoing and escalating cyber attacks, technological and intellectual property theft, and preparations for a hot war against us, I am bewildered that our govt. and corporate leaders are content to have us totally dependent upon them for the manufactured items flooding our docks on a daily basis. When I buy American I help us retain what little bit of manufacturing capability we still have.
On the last point, this is home and I don’t really want to go anywhere else. My family has been here for over 400 years. As a dual US-Canadian citizen I could relocate to Canada anytime I want but to do so now would put us too far from the kids. If I had to leave New England, I’d go to the Canadian Maritimes.December 18, 2014 at 8:51 pm #32415
A lot of people have already left the country…. in their minds. Too many problems here. The more you see of the world though you find other nationalities have it worse. There’s a whole free floating mass of displaced people around trying to make new homes for themselves. Its fun to visit – for awhile, but not forever. bug out is extreme if you’re already well established where you are in life. Of course if someone is trying to kill you or you’ve got massive family problems, well then there’s nothing to lose.
And then there’s this guy….
The story of Lawrence J. Franks Jr. was in my local paper recently. West Pointer 28 he was in the 10th Mountain Division Fort Drum in charge of a medical unit. He buged out and became a deserter. He went to France and joined the Foreign Legion 5 year contract under an assumed name. Getting out he turned himself in to the US army and now is serving a 4 year sentence in prison for conduct unbecoming an officer.
Sometimes bugging out is just a short walk to a jail cell. Hope he has offshore assets in a safe place. Must have gotten good experience.December 18, 2014 at 10:08 pm #32418
This is a hard one for me. I have have been to many other countries as an exchange student, but America is my home, and where my heart is..My husband died protecting this country and my beliefs. I am also a Christian, and there is nowhere in the Bible where most scholars believe we will survive the tribulation as a country. Not sure if that means literally or figuratively. I Have thought about this as a means of protecting my kids, but I have come to the conclusion that this is home, and I will stay. I will fight to the death if need be. I know that may sound stupid, but there it is.December 18, 2014 at 10:47 pm #32423
tukie2, nothing stupid about that.I also will stay. I am also a Christian and believe that when tribulation comes God will take care of us. Will we have to fight to the death maybe but God will be there when that happens.December 18, 2014 at 11:01 pm #32424
There’s lots of great places to go if you love freedom and liberty:
We aren’t plants. The great thing about being an animal is that we can leave a place if the environment becomes too difficult.December 18, 2014 at 11:23 pm #32426
The list is not telling you everything. Hong Kong Please that is number 1 in what world. China is taking total control.
Then you have countries with very strong gun control and socialist government like Australia, Canada, United Kingdom, and just about all European countries are very socialist. The Arab countries WOW were do I start limited freedoms there.
I think this website has a different type of freedom ranking, maybe business freedom which I do think is important but there taxes are very high. I used to buy many product from Europe to sell in the U. S. and can tell you France, United Kingdom, Spain, all had so much problem. I talked to all of these business owners and they would tell me how lucking we were.December 19, 2014 at 12:29 am #32427
The idea is not to replace one oppressive government for another oppressive government. The five flags are a way to get the best services of each country. (Different countries are good at different things.)
It’s really up to you if you want to stay in your country of birth. Just don’t be surprised when your government throws you under the bus.December 19, 2014 at 12:29 am #32428
Very odd ranking system. They don’t even include gun rights as a variable. In terms of individual freedoms that one should rank very high. Hong Kong? They’ve got to be kidding. If one thinks being free to buy all of your food from other countries makes you free I say let me know how that works out for you when the SHTF. Or when China gets tired of their pretenses at democracy.December 19, 2014 at 12:33 am #32430
I have a friend who’s son is in Hong Kong. He’s having money problems………banks give out counterfeit bills in ATM machines.
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