September 2, 2016 at 3:08 am #49874
I put this in General Discussion, rather than in News & Current Events, because though most of us are not specifically concerned with Venezuelan events, I think it illustrates how urban/suburban areas are likely to degenerate in worsening times. Is it collapsed yet?
(hat tip: SurvivalBlog.com)
Cry, "Treason!"September 2, 2016 at 11:13 am #49877
The one constant that can be assumed anywhere in the world is that an economically collapsed nation would not be as peaceful as an economically stable one. Differences in underlying culture and governmental institutions would cause significant differences in how it plays out however.September 2, 2016 at 3:04 pm #49879
Venezuela was a slow economical collapse which is one option that may happen here in the U. S.
Second option is a total collapse that happens in days or weeks. This one would be very hard on everyone even the prepared.
The Venezuelan model has happen many times including Cuba. The slow collapse is a way to easily control the population. Venezuela and Cuba were done with the population not being armed. The Cuban collapse was even slower then Venezuelan collapse. The Communist knew that the Cuban system of the slower collapse was not going to work in Venezuela because Cuba is an island and Venezuela has borders were the population can find a way to cross the borders and get supplies and weapons. The Cuban people do not have that option.
We will see if in Venezuela the government can stay in control of there population. The population is fighting back on the streets. So time will tell what happens in Venezuela.
In the U. S. the collapse may bring a civil war because we are armed. This is why the government is trying so hard to control our freedoms including our right to purchase guns and ammo. I think that the government has found that it is easier to control ammo and that is the way they will go.September 2, 2016 at 3:11 pm #49880
I think another constant is that regardless of how bad it gets, those in power will hang on to it until they are forcibly displaced — usually not until they run out of the means to pay their enforcers. Often, the replacement is one of the enforcers who saw a chance to take over, and made it. Meet the new boss, etc.
Cry, "Treason!"November 6, 2016 at 5:57 am #50292
Or just another failure of the same tired story?
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Cuba, and more.
Pick a country where socialism reigns and there you go, down the rabbit hole.
Venezuela is just another example of a people unwilling to take responsibility for their actions. Willing to give power to the next thug who promises wine and roses. Milk and honey.
They choose to live in slavery for the illusion of safety. Thin veil that it is. When it fails, the next illusion, pretty soon a nation of slaves, nothing more.
If a rebellion happens, the same things happen because no one knows or wants any different. The cycle continues.November 6, 2016 at 6:55 am #50293
“Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Steal a fish from one guy and give it to another–and keep doing that on a daily basis–and you’ll make the first guy p*ssed off, but you’ll make the second guy lazy and dependent on you. Then you can tell the second guy that the first guy is greedy for wanting to keep the fish he caught. Then the second guy will cheer for you to steal more fish. Then you can prohibit anyone from fishing without getting permission from you. Then you can expand the racket, stealing fish from more people and buying the loyalty of others. Then you can get the recipients of the stolen fish to act as your hired thugs. Then you can … well, you know the rest.” – Larken Rose
(Hat tip: SurvivalBlog.com)
To my mind, it starts when there’s enough of the population so poor in spirit, that they are willing to accept stolen goods. The founding generation had very few, but the next had a few more, and so on, until there were enough to elect someone on his promise to rob their neighbors. At that point, like a coil of chain on a table, when enough links are allowed to hang over the edge, to overcome the friction and drag the next link, there’s no stopping it. It accelerates until it all lies on the floor, waiting until perhaps, another generation (population?) comes along to coil up the entire chain, and replace it once more on the table — though since they will be human beings, and still not angels, there will inevitably be a few links already dangling over the edge..
November 6, 2016 at 2:18 pm #50295
- This reply was modified 4 years ago by L Tecolote.
One reason they want all the 3rd world scum into this country that they can get . When you have that , you have people used to the government telling them what direction to wipe their back side , they wont question anything . When the Roman empire started to go down , only one in ten soldiers in the Roman Army were actually Roman . We used to have limits in immigration from nation to nation , until the 1960s , the country was stronger because of it .November 6, 2016 at 3:32 pm #50296
One difference is that they have no way to fight back WE DO! They are not armed the way we are.
Yes Venezuela is a prototype of the collapse coming our way. Here in Miami when the hurricane was headed our way the grocery stores got cleaned out in two days. No can foods and water anywhere. So prepare.November 6, 2016 at 5:06 pm #50297
Here is another problem , most , if not all people coming into this country , white Europeans included , have never lived in a country where there is a 2nd amendment . Most are socialists of one degree or another , and most are in favor of gun control because they dont know any different . They have no concept of WHY the 2nd amendment exists , and are easily swayed by the marxist safety crowd . Yes we have a way to fight back ……for now . I hope everybody got their share of ammo and that extra firearm BEFORE the election . If Trump gets in , we are safe for another 4 years ………if not , expect things to go south fast !November 6, 2016 at 10:57 pm #50299
To my mind, it starts when there’s enough of the population so poor in spirit, that they are willing to accept stolen goods.
And therein is fundamental evidence of the state of not only their economy, but ours (in the US) as well. The concept of “conscience” is pervasively either missing or irrelevant. And with that being the case, the children of those lacking such conscience will not be taught the alternative, while learning this form of living as the only “normal” they come to know. As the growing ranks of government handout recipients swell, the old adage about social collapse takes real form, when the takers outnumber the mandatory “donors” to the extent that the “donors” no longer have anything to “donate” (have stolen). Cloward and Piven explicitly outlined such a strategy in 1966.
Here is part of the strategy to secure the future – “empower” illegals to vote for their handouts, while securing a socialist government far into the future (and social unrest the likes of which this nation hasn’t seen in 1½ centuries):November 8, 2016 at 2:53 pm #50331
Felons, illegals, and the mind numb are all reasons to avoid “one man, one vote”.
The electoral college may not be perfect, but the alternative is disaster. As we have seen across the world.November 8, 2016 at 3:27 pm #50332
I believe that there needs to be changes like no one should be able to vote that is not a U. S. Citizen. All need an ID showing that you are a U. S. Citizen.November 8, 2016 at 6:15 pm #50333
no one should be able to vote that is not a U. S. Citizen.
And that, Freedom, is at the root of the problem (note that I said “at” the root, not “is” the root). It became illegal in 1996 (I believe that was the year) for a non-citizen to vote in a national election. Cities and states can do what they want in local and state elections, but it’s federal law that a non-citizen can vote for President. So much for that law. Not only is Congress sufficiently bought and paid for, but the best and brightest (and most moral) of the officer class in the military have either been fired or put in a position to retire, just to get out of the political mess that exists in the U.S. military today. Add to that the horrendous problem of corrupt judges being appointed to lifetime positions that now do far more than what was intended. They no longer measure laws against the Constitution of the United States, they create law, and look to foreign or “international” law for guidance – as explicitly stated by at least one sitting Supreme Court justice.
Therefore: the Presidency is corrupted (and unfixable because of an electorate full of what Whirlibird said above). Congress is bought and paid for by “special interests” (directly working on behalf of the Dark State). The courts are filled with corrupt judges. And the military is no longer in charge of defending the Constitution of the United States – their job is to do the bidding of the Dictator-in-Chief as he inserts the military into undeclared “war” after undeclared “war” after undeclared “war,” NONE of which was because of a direct threat to the United States of America. Oh, someone might argue that we had to go after the perps of 9/11. Sure. But it did not take a full scale war, and absolutely not in Iraq to do it. It was never about Osama bin Laden, and anyone with any knowledge at the time of what our troops were being prepared for, and WHEN that preparation actually began, knows that as fact.
Add in some of the many other preparations for our current situation, and one could see the truly brilliant (regardless of its evil) strategies that have been put in play over the years. The loss of the Constitutional way of selecting US senators was a MAJOR factor. The ability of FedGov,Inc. to be able to come after individuals so universally, by virtue of the unconstitutional income tax, thereby also controlling what the common folks have, is yet another. Still another was the creation of the private entity that controls our economy – the Federal Reserve. (Note that all three of those occurred in 1913, under the “leadership” of Woodrow Wilson.) The actions of Abraham Lincoln in disallowing any state from choosing to unbind itself from the Union. He explicitly stated on multiple occasions in various forums that he didn’t really care about slavery or the welfare of those of African descent – he’d have been just as happy to ship them all back to Africa, regardless of whether they were born here or not, and even would have allowed slavery to continue if that could preserve the Union – because the issue was FAR more economic than social/moral to him. The perversion of the 10th Amendment is another of the many ways FedGov has taken full control, and brainwashed those under about age 60 into thinking the way we do things now is ‘the way we’ve always done it” – and it’s therefore OK, even right.
And the majority of Americans are either too dumbed down, thanks to a masterful job by the public indoctrination system, or else they just don’t care, and are therefore incapable of changing things. Current conditions aren’t really impacting them enough (or so they think) to motivate them toward change – and they wouldn’t know what to do even if they felt sufficiently uneasy. Anybody under 55-60 has zero memory of what it was like to live under massively rising interest rates, when a 30 year mortgage would end up costing more than three times the purchase price of a home. Anybody under 60 has no recollection at all of the collective terror that was felt in the United States (and presumably around the world) as we awaited the nuclear war that was feared as Khrushchev and Kennedy stared each other down over the Cuban missile crisis. No one under that same age recalls people building fallout shelters in their back yards or basements, when practically everyone at least knew someone that had a shelter if they didn’t have one themselves. And of course, you couldn’t even go into small towns without seeing the yellow and black fallout shelter signs on various buildings – they were everywhere. Outside a very small towns in America, few remember when nobody worried about whether they locked their doors or not when they went into town, or even out of town. Having a home alarm system hadn’t even been conceived of back then, because there was no need outside of the ultra-rich. And even few of them really worried about alarm systems “back then.” And now, very few feel a patriotic duty to even consider military service.
We have a society that very literally does not and cannot get it! Therefore, what we “need” (desperately) cannot and will not happen. We are living in the interim period between the death of the United States of America as a grand political and social experiment, and the total chaos that will ensue when “they” can’t hold it together any longer (or don’t want to, if Cloward and Piven were correct). Personally, I alternate between anger/deep frustration and very deep sadness/grief of what we have lost.November 8, 2016 at 6:17 pm #50334
(Edit: original trivial message deleted)
GS, I share your alternating moods. A better nation than this one was, at its prime, probably cannot be achieved, barring a celestial transplant into the human genetic structure.
November 8, 2016 at 6:24 pm #50335
- This reply was modified 4 years ago by L Tecolote.
I weakly smiled at the advertisement from Sportsman’s Guide that just showed up in my email:
“Today You Decide: Firearms | Ammo”
The body of the email prominently said in multiple places, “Vote Freedom!” The irony in all that, and the between-the-line messages, were not lost on this email recipient.
And back to the title of this thread, I suspect what’s implicitly happened is that the title question is essentially being answered in the affirmative, except, it’s not just an economic collapse going on down there, it’s a social and moral collapse as well (all part of the plan). As Whirlibird said above,
Or just another failure of the same tired story?
Zimbabwe, South Africa, Cuba, and more.
And as Paul Harvey used to say, “Stand by for news!” America.
(Another clue to the “news” is this headline: “Nato puts 300,000 ground troops on ‘high alert’ as tensions with Russia mount.” Don’t forget the video posted elsewhere on this Forum very recently of Putin’s attempted warning to the American people.)
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