Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 249 total)
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  • #15867
    Profile photo of tweva
    tweva
    Survivalist
    rreallife

    Selco – thanks for your reminder post. And, just a short aside on my above post, most rural areas have an ‘unofficial’ mayor or two. If you do move to a BOL in a rural area make it a point to keep your ears open and figure out/identify that person(s). They know what is going on around your area to a surprising degree.

    #15868
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Remember that the gangs are just a small part of the problem in a SHTF, the government in a total collapse will take over all food supplies. They will not care much about the cities.

    Great history examples of this is Russia and Cuba. In Cuba they went out to all the farms and took control of all food production. What happen next is food production went down since the farmers were not interested in working there farms for only enough food for there families. All the rest of the food production by the farmers had to be turned over to the government. This is how it works in a SHTF, ether a Dictatorship or Communism take over which the two are the same! What do you think the FEMA camps are for? They are not for just the city people, they are for everyone that doesn’t like what the government tells them to do and that will include any farmers. There will be a war in the farmland because of this.

    The farmers are all conservative that believe in the Constitution. That has always been the enemy of the government, The cities are all full of left wing groups(more in the north) which the government likes.

    That is what I see from all the history of all wars, governments take over food supplies. Cities don’t have any food supplies so they are not interested in them. They just let the cities burn up them self’s.

    #15874
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    tweva, I think that the numbers are high that the farms will get hit big time by many directions including the federal government not just the city people. In the cities there are many hunters and x military that will also go out to find food so the farmers problem will not be just gangs that do not know the rural areas. I live in Miami which is not close to many farmlands but I know personally about 20 hunters, x military, and x police guys that go hunting every two to three weeks. So I think that a city of 2 million may have 50,000 hunters at less so add that to all the cities with a total of 200 million people and you got another group to look at which maybe 500,000 hunters in the cities that will know how to go to the rural areas.

    When talking to them many say that they will leave the cities in the beginning of a SHTF to the farmlands. These x military will be looking for food too!

    Again what I am saying is farmland will be hit hard for food! Everyone in the cities are not just going to die there. There are over 200 million people in the cities so if 1% get out well that is only a 2 million man army.

    #15933
    Profile photo of VinnyVoodoo
    VinnyVoodoo
    Survivalist
    member1

    Whatever Military is left is going to be the only threat out here in my neck of the woods. By the time people make here they will have had to make their way from Dayton, Vandalia, Tipp City, Troy, Piqua, Houston, and Newport. Vandalia being the last Urban Area.

    Tipp, Troy and Piqua are all in the Great Miami River and I don’t see many ppl leaving a source of water and food (fish and deer are all over the banks) as soon as shtf. People from Dayton and Vandalia prolly won’t try and make a run for it until they have exhausted their weeks worth of food and realize the govt isn’t coming to help. Hungry and lacking nutrition they are gonna have to fight their was here to my lil town with only 1 main drag that cuts through the middle of town.

    There are miles between my town and any other so we’ll be able to see anyone coming from a ways off. Put ppl on the shops and upper floors of their homes with weapons and it’s a beautiful ambush site. Once they roll in block the exits with beater trucks and finish em off.

    This is Ohio. It’s the land of AR’s… and my MP15, Saiga AK-47 (uncoverted). Not to mention our deer and Turkey guns.

    #15934
    Robin
    Robin
    Survivalist
    member8

    Actually it all boils down to two groups of people:
    The Haves – The ones that were prepared.
    The Have Nots – All the rest.
    Robin

    #15936
    Mr. Red
    Mr. Red
    Survivalist
    member7

    Why does everyone think that all current and former military will be threats? Because they have training?

    Sure some will be threats, but not all. If I were you guys who are so scared of the military, take a look at your neighbours and wonder if, 3 weeks post SHTF event, would they still have food? Would they become violent to GET food for their families? What happens when their kids say “daddy/mommy, I’m hungry. I’m thirsty”? Those people will become far more dangerous to you, because they’re real close.

    This whole dumb-ass Red Dawn ideas some people have are retarded. Sure, as I said, some will be dangerous, but I see them as being a much larger asset than enemy. What better way to stop one than with one, y’know?

    Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.

    #15956
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Red,

    Folks are worried about the military for more than one reason. The first being – they got the biggest and nicest toys. The second being – there is little reason to trust the active duty troops at this point.

    Now, before anyone hunts me down and burns me at the stake, hear me out.

    When I was active duty – which was for most of my adult life – I often asked my fellow soldiers, and then later on my troops, if they could tell my anything about the Founders, their vision, the Constitution, etc. Perhaps one in ten could, even though all of us had sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution. It was the rare soldier or NCO who included a dictatorial government in the definition of “enemies foreign and domestic“…

    Later on, when I was watching New Orleans self-destruct after Hurricane Katrina (along with everyone else in the US), I saw a mid-level management puke from the thoroughly corrupt New Orleans Police Department issue the completely unconstitutional order that “nobody was allowed to have guns but the cops”. Mid level pukes in a corrupt police department do not have the power to suspend the constitution all by their lonesome. Yet, of the thousands of troops that poured into New Orleans after the hurricane hit, exactly ONE small unit of perhaps company strength refused to go door to door, illegally confiscating privately owned weapons. That unit was quietly moved out of the area and replaced with another unit that didn’t have a problem blindly following unconstitutional orders… the young bucks were eager to kick in doors and crack heads.

    Afterwards, sometimes years later, those same young bucks that did such a great job pissing all over the constitution and wiping their asses with it expressed severe remorse at being used like that. Except for that one small unit that balked at what were undoubtedly illegal and unconstitutional orders, NONE OF THEM did anything to stop it. Or even question what they were doing.

    Us vets who have a problem with things like this have seen this before… it takes exceptional courage to stand up to illegal and unconstitutional orders. Because either way, no matter if you are right or wrong, you WILL be Court Martialed. So, either most troops don’t care, are so pig-ignorant of the constitution they don’t know, or are so scared of being Court Martialed they won’t do the right thing. Seen it before. Just putting on a uniform does not make a moral or honorable person out of a dirtbag. It does not impart super powers or morality or honor or anything. Those have to be present before the uniform goes on.

    Alas, I think that when TSHTF, most troops – over 85% – will either fire on citizens, follow unconstitutional and illegal orders, or will act in their own best interest instead of the best interest of others (looting, instead of stopping looters, etc), same as the NOLA cops did. They either went over the hill with their equipment, used their position and authority to chase away looters (thus leaving the most valuable loot for themselves) or acted in their own self-interest instead in the best interest of others.

    “Training” has little to nothing to do with it… it’s their power and position and heavy weapons.

    EDIT: The other problem I have is with those who say “Well, they didn’t make the law. They were just enforcing it.” Yeah, well guess what? “President” Obongo scribbled on a piece of paper that says the US Government can, for any reason – or NO reason – just roll in and take my stuff. My water. My land. My crops. My livestock. Because they said they could. Guess that’s “the law” of the land, too.

    Guess what’s gonna happen if they try that bullshit?

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #15958
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    So Malgus you think like I do that what the SHTF the orders maybe to take the farmlands and all the foods there? For two reasons 1. to take control of all food supplies and water which would control the people. 2. The farms are all owned by the people that believe in the Constitution so by taking control they get rid of the major group that would resist them the most.

    If they win the farmland they win the civil war. The cities are not important to the government so they would not care if they burn to the ground. But taking control of the rural areas will not be easy.

    The people that are in the cities would be not able to help the farmers in the resistant against the government because they would surround the cities so no one can come out.

    I do agree 100% that many in the military have never read the Constitution. They would follow orders.

    #15961
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    free,

    Food is a weapon. Seen it before. So has Selco and at least one other of us here in the forums that was in Mogadishu. “Support me and my regime, and you get food. Don’t support me, and you will watch your wife and children starve to death.”

    Thing is, the continental United States comprises a gargantuan amount of land. Truly huge. If you counted everyone in the US Army – from burger flippers to gas pumpers and everyone in between (not just the combat arms folks) – you get maybe 1.5 million people. That’s everyone. There’s more than 100 million armed citizens in the US. Even if even 10% stood up and resisted, that is still a ratio of almost 7 to 1. We can’t even control puny countries like Afghanistan and Iraq a fraction the size of the US. Them thinking it will be a cakewalk would be a serious mistake I am more than willing to let them make.

    Besides, the food has to come from somewhere. Soldiers are not farmers. Someone has to till, sow, irrigate, harvest and ship the crops. Even in the land of Big Ag Superfarms. If you start corralling up the farmers, taking their livestock, crops, their water, etc, that would be like killing off your breed stock. You’ll eat well for a short time, but in the end, you will still starve to death.

    I do not think “they” will be able to rely on all our troops to do their dirty work. At least some will go over the hill and take their toys with them. 15% – Enough to matter, anyways. There just won’t be enough left to do the job. Meaning, just like ancient Rome hired mercs to do the dirty work, “they” will hire the Chinese, the Mexicans, even the Russians… and pay them using the oldest trick in the book – land. Keep the land of the man you kill. So long as you remain loyal to your master…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #15963
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Malgus, I think you are right but they are still planning to take the farm land to control the food supplies. In the end we will win because of the 100 million armed citizens that many will help the farmers defend there land.

    But that is there plan. Food is the weapon they need to control to win.

    #15979
    Profile photo of SeTe
    SeTe
    Survivalist
    member1

    “Alas, I think that when TSHTF, most troops – over 85% – will either fire on citizens, follow unconstitutional and illegal orders, or will act in their own best interest instead of the best interest of others (looting, instead of stopping looters, etc), same as the NOLA cops did. They either went over the hill with their equipment, used their position and authority to chase away looters (thus leaving the most valuable loot for themselves) or acted in their own self-interest instead in the best interest of others.

    “Training” has little to nothing to do with it… it’s their power and position and heavy weapons.

    EDIT: The other problem I have is with those who say “Well, they didn’t make the law. They were just enforcing it.” Yeah, well guess what? “President” Obongo scribbled on a piece of paper that says the US Government can, for any reason – or NO reason – just roll in and take my stuff. My water. My land. My crops. My livestock. Because they said they could. Guess that’s “the law” of the land, too.

    Guess what’s gonna happen if they try that bullshit?”

    Malgus, that is one of the most accurate and realistic posts I’ve ever had the pleasure to read. I edited down the quote only to save space. It is factual and gives real life example of what has already happened in the USA. I will also add that what went on looking for the boston bombing suspects shows just what people are willing to let happen to them by so called authorities!

    I have a very good friend, retired army, he always tells me that if things get bad most military will back the constitution. I’m always skeptical because our history shows otherwise, your example presents one of the real examples of what is bound to happen. Add to that it has been decades since he served, peoples knowledge of our history is even weaker now. Again your example shines through demonstrating what I believe would be accurate.

    Things may change after time in a bad situation however that could be after many, many months, and in those months things could/will be come drastically different then today or when real bad times begin. If we entertain the idea that there is a plan to create bad times then we must also entertain those creating the plan will be ready to execute their plan from the onset, blitzkrieg if we will…

    Selco may be able to give a better idea of how quick in his situation things changed and how organized the change was…?

    #15983
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    SeTe, I believe it will happen the way Malgus says but remember that the young guys in the military have families and when one of there family member gets shot or killed by the military that he is a part of many will turn on there own military. That is what I am feel will happen. It will be a dirty SHTF. Some of us will not know who are the good guys and who are the bad. That will be the other problem.

    #15985
    Profile photo of SeTe
    SeTe
    Survivalist
    member1

    Freedom, it is all speculation on our point, however it would not be unreasonable for troops to be at locations away from family and communication systems interrupted just because of the situation/s you described. As the old saying goes, “There is nothing new under the sun” in this case meaning, militaries have dealt with the situation you describe and take it into consideration.

    What I believe will be the real turning point is how the average citizen responds, if they are herded like cattle and go willingly or if they defy orders to be herded as example. If people cooperate then it will take longer for troops to decide people are being treated poorly and they didn’t sign up for it. Think New Orleans and the “refuges” held in the stadium as example.

    “Some of us will not know who are the good guys and who are the bad. That will be the other problem. – See more at: http://community.shtfschool.com/forums/topic/is-survival-in-an-urban-setting-even-possible/page/8/?bbp_reply_to=15983&_wpnonce=1534ea869a#new-post

    That is the truth, looking for good people is difficult now, throw in shtf with people on edge, hungry, distrustful, mean, hate filled, small group/gang mentality, off meds, etc., and there are serious problems!

    Yeah Malgus’ post rings true, agreed!

    #15987
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Y’all, don’t get me wrong…

    I don’t think a SHTF situation will be a bunch of irradiated mutant zombies wandering the countryside munching on people… I also don’t think that just because TSHTF, people will turn into psychotic dicks that go around murdering people just because.

    I’m sure there will be psychotic dickheads running around killing people during SHTF, same as there are now. I mean, look how we treat each other on Black Friday when the ICrap goes on sale down at Best Buy. And these are still relatively good times.

    But humans are social animals. Leastways, certain groups are (without belling the cat at this point). We need each other, if even for simple human contact. It will suck for awhile – how long is anyone’s guess – but I think eventually cooperation for our mutual benefit and commerce will re-establish itself. People need things and it’s easier to trade with someone who has what you need than killing him off and taking his ****. After all, where will your next source of (fill in the blank) come from if you kill off the only guy making/growing it? Do that a couple times and nobody will trade with you under any circumstances… they’ll just assume the worst and blast your ass as soon as they see you coming.

    There’s probably gonna be a bad spell. Again, for how long I do not know. There will be betrayal, Bad Actors and some seriously heinous things happen… but I think if we can tribe up on a local level and perhaps keep the vision of the Founders alive – even in miniature – we’ll be okay. Western Civilization and America – as the Framers envisioned it – are really nothing more than an idea. And as long as the idea is alive, then we are.

    Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. – V

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #15990
    Profile photo of SeTe
    SeTe
    Survivalist
    member1

    “There’s probably gonna be a bad spell. Again, for how long I do not know. There will be betrayal, Bad Actors and some seriously heinous things happen… but I think if we can tribe up on a local level and perhaps keep the vision of the Founders alive – even in miniature – we’ll be okay. Western Civilization and America – as the Framers envisioned it – are really nothing more than an idea. And as long as the idea is alive, then we are.”

    Yep, that sounds logical, of course various areas will “mature” at different speeds… Eventually folks will settle down and realize were are in it together. Question is will there be external forces making a play…?

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