June 4, 2014 at 1:45 am #15606
Robin, I like that saying. It is true for many things in life. I teach my son as much as I can but do not thing I will ever be able to teach him everything that I know. So it applies to many things.June 4, 2014 at 1:21 pm #15636
Robin, I like that saying. It is true for many things in life. I teach my son as much as I can but do not thing I will ever be able to teach him everything that I know. So it applies to many things.
I think the best you can do is to give your kids good core values and teach them principles (because unlike rules they can be applied to many situations). My father thaught me to always investigate and understand the reasons why something happens. That stuck with me and this sort of curiosity has led me to find out what matters for me rather early in life. Im very grateful for that.
Alea iacta est ("The die has been cast")June 5, 2014 at 4:48 am #15725
After 30 days of living in the cities these hands are going to start getting sick because not many that live there know about proper sanitation. Human waste and garbage are going to literally pile up (unless you actually believe the hands will form some kind sanitation dept among their ranks) and the flies landing on human waste and then on ppl and the food they eat is going to decimate the cities population.
I live in rural Ohio and can tell you from witnessing myself that when a farmer is sick or injured the test of the farmers in the area band together to tend the b fields and the flock without expecting anything in return.
Country folk are already a tribe because they already take care of each other.
You send the gangs to fight a bunch of hunters, woodsmen and farmers nd all that will be left is a bunch of dead thugs.
There cars will be burnt at the roads leading into town as a warning and an barrier.
If the gangs do by some chance run the farmers off then the farmers will WALK right back the next day to drag all their poisoned bodies out of their farmhouse. (Poison the booze, ya know the gangs will target that first).June 5, 2014 at 11:37 am #15746
VinnyVoodoo, All that you are saying is good but when the thousands of gang members and jailed criminals that are let good from all the federal jails go to the farms that will not care about the other dead gang members or cars burnt on the road because like you said the cities are dead with no food so they know there is only one way to live and that is to take down the farms or die of hunger.
The farmers will kill many but there are so many gang members are armed better then the army is. What I am saying is that it will not be easy. You will kill 10, 100, 1,000 gang members but one will get though. Remember there will be no other place for them to go to find food.
What hunger does is make man into animals, even a good man so do not think it will only be gang members and criminals going to the farms. There will be many city people that are hunters too, there will be military service people looking for food and even some police officers that can’t find food. The farms will be targeted day and night.
There is just to many people in the cities, millions. For example a city like Miami, Florida has close to 3 million people, if 2 million die in a SHTF there is still 1 million people finding a way to hit the farms. That is a lot of people!
My view is it will be a mess every were.June 6, 2014 at 1:50 am #15815
First the gang members need to get out of lockup. If it gets bad enough where guards leave their posts you can bet that there are going to be some dead inmates before they take off. No guards are NOT going to walk away wondering if he will ever going to bump into a bunch of guys that he left locked up during SHTF.
Next, allot of the animals will kill each other before they leave the prisons, Aryan vs Muslim, Black vs Hispanic, everyone vs everyone.
I honestly don’t think these gang bangers will be organized enough or have the wits to do much more than terrorize certain areas of cities. There won’t be any 100’s of inmates storming farmhouses. Maybe some small bands of raiders.
When shtf is starting out the military will prolly declare martial law and round up most of the inmates for hard Labour and execute the worst of the worst.June 6, 2014 at 2:56 am #15822
First the gangs are in the cities not in the jails, second the federal prisons are not in the cities, they are located in areas closer to the farmlands. Gangs are very organized since they are in the drug and every other illegal business there is. There was an news article about two years ago were they say that the gangs in the U. S. have more weapons then many countries armies.
But forget the gangs and the prisoners, what about the government? They are also going to take on the farmers for there foods. Also the people that are not criminals or gang members but run out of food too and are also armed, they will go to the farmland for food. Everyone that is alive will go to were there is food! Some of these people are hunters, x military, police, fireman, and government people. All will be hungry and will do anything to get food.
Like the stats say there is 300 million guns owned by 100 million people so when all though people get hungry they will go were there is food.
The cities are not just going to kill each other for what? If there is no food they will not be wasting ammo killing each our . They will leave the cities looking for food. Also with all the problems in all the cities do you really think that the military have time to take care of the jails? The government building in the cities will be on fire and they will need all the help they can get in the cities. The jail guards have families that need food too! They are not going to stay there, they will go home to there families and this guards will also go looking for food.
It will not be pretty any were you go. Hunger can change anyone.
So what I am telling you is do not think you are safe just because you are in the farmland areas. You will have to guard the area 24/7.June 6, 2014 at 3:31 am #15825
freedom, I do agree that there will be no really safe place. My perspective is given that the cities will either be burned to the ground, will be destroyed by diseases or starvation, or will become what amounts to big FEMA concentration camps, it seems reasonable that the best place to be is in the country. So while the country will not automatically be safe, it should be relatively free from diseases as most of that in the city will be from lack of sanitation. It is also virtually impossible to burn the country to the ground so that is another justification supporting the country. It can’t be made into a FEMA camp as it is too large though there is a possibility that if the government does indeed gain control of the cities, they will at some time move into the country which at that point will become the battleground that will decide the outcome. I think that organized gangs will be everywhere as will smaller bands of barbarians.
In the end, I believe my chances are at least better in the country than in the city. Plus I would rather be fighting in the country from prepared defenses than be in the same scenario in a city. My preference in all this is that we do not have a collapse nor a war, but I believe that is foolish to think that as I cannot see a way around both of those events. Nevertheless, I pray daily that God will intervene on behalf of those of us who still worship Him.
For God, Family, Country, & Liberty!June 6, 2014 at 3:34 am #15828
With a lil more thought, parts of the Military will stay together, local guardsmen/militia will need food and a safer place away from the cities where that can set up operations. Rural farms and towns fit that need. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the military keeping the gangs pinned in the cities where they can kill each other off.
My opinion, if you live in the city you should worry about gangs. Rural America, not so much.June 6, 2014 at 3:58 am #15835
Here’s an idea –
Direct people to the FEMA food storage facilities. Or NSA, BLM, DHS, whoever is stockpiling guns and food etc.
If food/medicine/supplies are really stockpiled at different locations throughout the states, it would behoove the locals to know where that is.
Map it out?
Make these maps available to city dwellers when they approach your place?
Maybe have some signposts ready to go, saying “food – this way”–>
upward and onwardJune 6, 2014 at 4:14 am #15848
Ghost Prime, Maybe you believe in this government but I don’t! The first thing the government will do is to get the food from the farmlands. The government and FEMA have plans for this for years on how to take over farmlands in a SHTF times.
If you think that the government will keep gang member in the cities to protect the farmers then you believe all the lies that this government is feeding you today. The government is a left wing government and what are the farmers? Not left wing right! So you think that they will protect the farmers from the cities?
I just do not see the government like this one sit back in a SHTF and not take the farmland away from the farmers.
I do not think it will be that safe in the farmlands at all. It will be safer were there is no food. The military will want to take over all food supplies for them self’s.
VinnyVoodoo, you are right the military will be at war with the gangs but they are not friends of the farmers ether and will take the farmlands for the food. This is the problem. When the SHTF they will not have anyone stopping them. I just do not think it is that safe as everyone thinks.
Let me make this clear, it will be a war in the cities but the farmlands will be hit very hard in all directions and the biggest one the farmers need to be on the look out for is the government not the gangs.June 6, 2014 at 4:30 am #15855
foodforthought, this FEMA **** is well known by many in the cities, they will head to the farmlands for food. But do not think that FEMA will protect the farmers. FEMA has plans to take over farms and food. They are not going to just sit back and not grab all the farms. FEMA will work like Dictators and take what they want!
The government doesn’t care about the farmers, they know that they are all Constitutionalists and the plan is to kill them.
They may even let the gangs do the job for them and then kill the gangs.
All I am saying is that the government doesn’t love the farmers so you need to understand this, that you will not be safe. They will come after all of you.
I am with the farmers even if I am in the city. I believe if the farmland is taken over by the government than we have lost the war for freedom.
So what I am trying to do is open all of your eyes to what may happen in the farmlands. Be ready for a government take over.June 6, 2014 at 8:00 am #15860
It just seems to me, I may be wrong, that you have an inflated opinion about gangs an how big their role will be outside of the city. I don’t see 100 gang bangers rolling up a 1/4 mile drive to a farm and not taking enough fire to make em tuck tail and run.
I don’t think the govt will be defending farmers by keeping the gangs in the city. It’s just good sense to keep em where they can’t resupply their ammo or food or fuel or numbers. These fools will raid alkyl the liquor in the city and popping off rounds like they’re in endless supply.
You can’t have a city full of starving and scared ppl without them turning on each other. Keep them surrounded and keep em in.June 6, 2014 at 10:02 am #15863
Government, gangs, military etc. Those all are words from normal time.
Just be sure that you think in new terms, when SHTF all these words from normal times have different meanings. Military can easy turn to very well equipment terrorizing little groups with warlord leaders, gangs can turn to city leaders and small governments, or government can turn to fascist tyrannic junta.
I saw all these things happened in very short period from the moment when SHTF.
Where it is gonna be better depends also from the level of SHTF, I would always prefer being at rural place.
Forget about “government trying to restore order” thoughts and similar, every government is there first because itself.June 6, 2014 at 10:32 am #15864
We should define what we mean by city. It seems to me that there is no hard line between rural vs. city. The ‘city’ I’m in is a town of about 38K people within a larger area (6 counties or so) of a few hundred thousand. Some of the concepts discussed here (lack of food, sanitation issues, etc) certainly apply to my area. Others do not (there’s plenty of water, no gangs (at least not yet), etc). This is very different from cities like L.A., NYC, Houston, Chicago, etc. where people are packed in like rats. It’s also very different from wide open areas, national parks, etc..
There’s also the character of the population to consider. In my town, like many across the country, the population is aging. This will bring it’s own set of challenges and opportunities.
One more additional factor is the presence (or absence) of government installations, military bases, etc. We have some large government installations but they are not military bases, they are largely civilian.
Big Bears Don't TreeJune 6, 2014 at 12:12 pm #15866
I am more in line with VinnyVoodoo when it comes to existing gangs in cities/suburbs and probably those that would initially form immediately after SHTF. People in general don’t like change. SHTF will be a big enough change. People tend to gravitate to and stick with what they know and are familiar with- especially when the rest of their world has been ripped apart. Rural areas – hell, ‘the great outdoors’ – are a mystery to many, many people. Heck – open country/land/woods scare the crap out of many ‘city’ people – and I’d lump current gangs in their with it. I have always been amazed by all the people that are perfectly happy living in an apartment in a city all their life or in a townhouse with a washcloth size patch of green for a yard. It is dark even now out herein the country. Roads are not very wide many times and not well marked. There are ‘tigers and bears – oh my!’ out here. Then too, most Americans at least IMHO, wouldn’t recognize ‘food’ in it’s non-grocery store state, or without it’s processing/packaging, if it fell over it.
Ever taken your produce to a farmer’s market to sell? You would be stunned, shocked I am telling you at the number of people every week that ask ‘What’s that?’, ‘What do you do with/how do you cook/eat that?’ Right now if you looked at my main food garden you would see lots of green, flowers but the ‘food’ is not obvious at all. My trial rice field looks like ‘grass’. The potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn, wheat, carrots, garlic etc out in the fields just look like green stuff. Huh…I doubt most people that don’t garden/farm would not have any idea that that field across from me that is so green is soybeans. In my back acres, this morning I had to go FIND my cows, sheep and the pigs. They aren’t sitting there saying ‘Here’s dinner’. The small holding farms are much different from the larger farms and huge corporate ag farms some entity (referring to what Selco cautioned about pre SHTF ‘terms’ for thongs) might want to ‘take’. And, they usually mono-crop.
Farmers and land owners aren’t stupid people. They are used to ‘living in the future’ because working with Mother Nature, you have to. Many, many of them see what lies ahead and don’t think they have not been making their own plans for their own hierarchy/groups to rise up in their areas when the time comes. With their combined assets (think of what you can make defense wise of some of the ag components used in farming) huh, I think some that think the rural areas are going to roll over or are easy pickings (incl any gangs) are going to be in for a really rude awakening. I know of several groups that have been meeting for some number of years now that get together on a regular basis and talk about things like this and they have made plans.Comprehensive plans. In the shorter term they are also of course wielding their influence where they can in things/affairs of men, making contacts galore and watching/listening, always watching/listening what is ‘going on’. This is not just in my broader area. I have family out west with major tracts of farm land in several states and I know this is the case there as well. Don’t forget, all those small town PD’s that have been ramped up with tactical gear are made up of people – people who are connected through family who have jobs/are employed by many of these growers etc. And the growers/farmers have great influence on them in many cases. Their are ties there unseen.
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