May 16, 2014 at 11:44 am #13987
I have read many forums and books about life after the SHTF, including Selco’s of course. Most paint a grim picture of life WROL, especially in urban areas. It seems to me that a discussion of this would be helpful so for those with knowledge on this, I would appreciate hearing your input.
Personally I am leaning towards a BO location to which we can go as soon as the day comes. Part of my plan is to gather a group of like-minded Patriots as I believe that survival in any location requires more than an individual, a family, or even a small group of less than 10 people, for history suggests that gangs of all sizes will be roaming the land searching for easy targets from whom they can steal what they need since they were too lazy to prepare for themselves.
Thanks for your feedback.
For God, Family, Country, & Liberty!May 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm #13994
From my perspective the food and water storage requirements make it unfeasible. The larger the group the bigger requirements are to meet. If you could buy or lease the right building, fortify it, fill it with food and water, then you might make it in a urban area. Otherwise you have to become a group of hunter killers looking for food.May 16, 2014 at 1:05 pm #13996
Ghost Prime, I live in a city, Miami, Florida. I think that a SHTF will be hard any were you live. Gangs are not going to stay in the cities, they know well that they food supplies are limited to what is in the stores which will be out of food the first week of an SHTF. They will hit many homes for food but after 30 days they will want to find other food supply and that is in the farmland.
Gangs will try to take over the farmers and make them there slaves to farm the land for there food. They are killers that will hold there kids and wife’s to make sure the man will work for them. This will not be pretty since many farmers will not take it. Many on the two sides will die.
So the way I see it you need to build up your group of Patriots were you live and defend the area. Gangs will like to take over easy targets first so if you are not an easy target they will move on since there will be so many targets for them to hit.
There will be the hardcore criminal gang members and the jails that will let them all out which will be hard to deal with. All of these gangs and criminals will not stay in the cities for more them a year since it will get harder by each day to find food. So the end will be that they leave for the farms.
So any were you go the most important thing is to have a good group to defend your area and if your group needs to move then the group does it together.
Then there are the people that are not gangs but didn’t prepare at all that will also go after food. Many in the cities are armed well. They will go after even the gangs after 30 days. It will be unbelievable how hunger will change many people and make them killers. So even the gangs will have people hunting them down it the gangs have some food.
So Ghost there is no safe place.May 16, 2014 at 1:19 pm #13998
Freedom, I pray for you brother.May 16, 2014 at 1:35 pm #14000
I know! 1974. I am preparing with over 1 year of food for 20 and great water system. Also I am armed good with ammo. In this block out of the ten homes 5 are with me and the other 5 there are 2 that are 50/50 there. The next two blocks there are some that I know that are also ready, but yes it will be a war zone here.
One thing is that Miami is full of South Americans that are not to good with a gun so they will not do good with the gangs. Thank you for your prayers.
I also will pray for you too brother. My God be with us all.May 16, 2014 at 1:52 pm #14002
It’s very possible, as long as you know how to do it.
Survival in a SHTF world will suck pretty much everywhere. The only thing is that in a city, there will still be things to be had an scavenged, at least for a little while. Out in the boonies, you have yourself and your people to rely on, for literally everything.
Security will be overly important no matter where you’re at.
Water is huge, so in an urban environment you’ll have to find ways of being able to get enough water, by rain collection or scavenge bottles of it. Rural areas for a BOL or whatever you wish to call it should have multiple ways of getting water.
You can grow food in a city, but it’ll be small. The thing is there will still be some food to be found, but of course that’ll keep getting less and less. Out in the sticks you’ll have to grow your own, as well as hunt, fish, trap. Those things can still be done in a city environment but it’s a bit tougher if you’re not real sure how to go about it.
That’s just a few small points. It can be done, and done very well, but surviving a collapse or SHTF event in a city isn’t the best idea. For myself, I prefer my place out in the middle of no where, due to how secure it can be (not perfect but better than any city).
Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.May 16, 2014 at 2:47 pm #14005
Mogadishu, Somalia 1995. The city looked like a German city in WWII that had been worked over by thousands of Allied bombers. By the time we got there the fighting was between two major warlords. There was no food except the type supplied by NGOs (Non-Government Organizations.)
This was the reason for all the fighting. If you controlled the food then you controlled not only the public but the smaller fighting groups. I and the folks with me only reason for being there was as part of an UN operation called United Shield. We were tasked with bringing out all UN personnel and UN equipment. We were there from Jan. to June 1995. When we left there was not a bit of electricity, light or running water. That had all been done by the UN. My point is that when all is said and done it boils down to food.
RobinMay 16, 2014 at 3:05 pm #14010
Mr Red, You are right that the cities will be jungles but the farms will be sitting ducks all out in the open areas and when the gangs from the cities go there they will be harden by all the killing they have done in the cities so be prepared my brother. There are so many(millions) that will go your way you need your group to get ready. This will happen 30 days after the SHTF.
Also what many do not even think about is the jails that are in areas away from the cities. These criminals are not easy to handle. Some in the farmland will get hit on the first 30 days because they will trust someone that comes there way and look friendly but maybe a killer.
The cities will be a war zone, but they are a jungle which may help since it is not an open area, many places to hide.
No were will it be safe but farm areas will be safer for the first 30 days. I had read an article on gangs and in this article they said that the gangs in the U. S. have more arms than some countries do.
Just remember to shoot first and then ask who is coming!May 16, 2014 at 3:05 pm #14011
Of course it is possible to survive when SHTF in urban settings, I survived together with many other people.
But point is that many many people died there, other suffered violence, hunger, fear, desperation. Me too.
And you simply need to prepare yourself to do some things that you maybe not like in order to survive. Are you gonna forced to do that things if you are (for example) in rural settings? Sure, but much less, and with much more success, less risk for you etc.
It is simple math, too many people and not enough resources mean more violence, bigger chaos.
And it is not about is it possible, it is about what is easier.May 16, 2014 at 3:09 pm #14012
I was about to say, Selco made it out of a city alive, so of course it is possible. The simple reality is that the city will, as Selco has personally seen, be a living Hell. Even worse than the farmlands.
By the way, Selco, THANK YOU for sharing your experiences. I know it couldn’t have been easy. Your guide was well worth the money. I hope the money helps you and your family!May 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm #14017
Thanks so much for all the comments.
Robin, it is hard for anyone who has not been in the situation you were in to fully grasp how life would be. Selco too realizes it obviously as he did live through it, which makes the input from both of you very valuable.
On the weapons issue, does anyone disagree with the simple concept that the more people you have defending an area, the better able you are to defend it? This of course depends on some training and enough land to grow crops and livestock. I keep coming back to this since I have not yet had to live through a collapse, though I have read much from Selco and others. Thanks again for any feedback.
For God, Family, Country, & Liberty!May 16, 2014 at 5:47 pm #14021
Ghost and everyone else…
I urge you all, and will continue to till you get sick of me saying it – I urge you all to read “A Failure of Civility”.
It is a wealth of information when it comes to surviving Bad Things Happening. Bottom line is you have to tribe up with others.. the Strong Man vs The World makes for a good book and an interesting movie, but that dude? In reality, his ass is grass eventually… there’s too many Visigoths.
Tribe up. Make a plan. Sock away food, water, ammo, meds, etc… do it now.
Thing is, if the Visigoth commander has an ounce of brains, he knows that he’s going to need enough guys to not only take somewhere, but to hold it – otherwise the same thing that happens to you will happen to him. A bigger, badder bunch will come along and take his ****. You have to have enough guys to make it not worth his efforts – in other words, yeah he can take your ****, but he won’t have enough guys left to defend his gains… a Pyrrhic Victory. He knows they can’t run around running and gunning and taking people’s **** forever.. they will need someplace to hole up.
You don’t need an army. You just need enough guys to make it not worth their while…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1May 16, 2014 at 6:34 pm #14027
Malgus, I agree with the idea of tribe up, even in the cities the gangs want the easy things, they do not what a war.
I found this on the internet, is it the book? Link is for everyone.May 16, 2014 at 6:41 pm #14028
Main page, where you can order the book. http://www.afailureofcivility.com/
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1May 16, 2014 at 11:19 pm #14046
Ghost Prime – My leanings are exactly the same as yours. Although I still think a “bug in” location in a city is feasible, it will be a bit harder due to all the human interaction because of the population numbers and having to do a fair bit of hiding or laying low. Having a fall back location in an area that lends itself to self-sufficiency (ample water, fair soil, defensible area, out of the way, natural game, etc.) will be worth many times what you paid when the time comes to use it.
Malgus is on point also in his “tribe up” philosophy. Thanks for the book review, link and suggestion by the way.
Yes, I agree with the concept of more is better – up to a point. The larger the piece of property, the harder is to defend and the more personnel it takes. I’d definitely add several large dogs to the mix also. If you run short of food scraps, they’ll learn to hunt on their own as it’s in their nature. My 100 lb. lab catches anything too slow to make it out of the backyard now – even birds.
The lone wolf or single family is not a good recipe – even if no bad guys come knocking someday (fat chance), just the work of running a full time farm is daunting in the best of times and compounded labor helps everyone.
Since everything I’ve read leans toward at least 2 acres of crop land to sustain a family of four, I’m hoping to secure about 20 acres or more – about 5 acres per family for 4-5 families.
Don’t forget that when you’re shopping for locations to go visit the neighbors around the property to “ask” about the property you’re interested in. This will give you a chance to see how they live and know if they will be a resource or a liability (deadbeats) when the time comes. You may be pleasantly surprised that most inhabitants of rural areas have a DIY attitude that can also be compounded upon come barter time and help with the heavy work. I have several friends around the US that are like this – they already live in their BOL and are satisfied that with their neighbors they are about as set as they can be.
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
- Thomas Paine
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