November 9, 2014 at 6:46 pm #28696
I’ve been serving the Lord my entire life but most of it was spent at one church. We visited a few churches before ending up at a Messianic congregation where we’ve been for about 6 years. I’ve heard that Messianic congregations have a lot of conflict and splits, more than other churches, due to the devil attacking those closest to the truth. I know there are some Messianics on here, so that’s why I’m asking here.
I was upstairs yesterday during the music portion of the service (because the music is too loud for me to bear) and I overheard the pastor yelling at a woman in the nursery where she was watching two toddlers. They were speaking Spanish so I couldn’t understand what they were saying. The toddlers started crying really loud, practically screaming, and I understand why. He has yelled at other people before, including me. Whether he had reason to or not seems irrelevant to me – he should be able to discuss things rationally instead of flying off the handle. It doesn’t seem to bother anyone else though. It seems like people are just glad it didn’t happen to them. To me it’s like if you see someone getting beat up in the church, surely the aggressor would be chastised, even if it were the pastor. Shouldn’t someone say something even if it’s “just” verbal abuse? No one holds him accountable.
The only thing is, it’s the only Messianic church in town. Many people have left – my husband and I and one other person have been there the longest, and everyone else is newer. Whenever someone leaves it’s implied that they “didn’t want to hear the truth.” I think the Hispanic people there are more used to such an authoritarian leader, coming from Catholic backgrounds. The pastor is from Brazil, and didn’t grow up in church, so maybe he just doesn’t know how a pastor is supposed to behave. No one will say anything to him though. I can’t say anything to anyone about it because unity is emphasized there and everyone is so against gossip.
I think the pastor may be bipolar, because everything will be fine for awhile and then when he gets like this, he exhibits enough symptoms to be diagnosed with it.November 9, 2014 at 7:01 pm #28697
I’d say, categorically, not normal. Someone needs to say something to him, when he is not in this mood. Perhaps your husband? If not, then perhaps you could, but I would imagine it would not be well received.
As for BiPolar Disorder, it is mostly from a vitamin B12 deficiency. Hard to get enough by tablets, because it will not absorb without another nutrient or chemical that the body is supposed to make. I supplement w/B12 because of this. I have not had an episode for years as far as I know. Very even tempered.
Welcome to SHTF School!
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumNovember 9, 2014 at 7:11 pm #28698
Bug, a pastor that behaves in that manner hardly seems suited for such a role. Talk to him in hopes he’ll change his behavior, if not, I’d find a new church.November 9, 2014 at 7:44 pm #28701
Well I know what I would do.
*passes the preacher a snickers bar*
Never be afraid to do the righteous thing, nothing righteous is ever easy.November 9, 2014 at 8:18 pm #28705
I think you may have answered your own question in a roundabout fashion.
When I first read the title of your post, I said to myself, ‘Yes! I’ve experienced this first hand.” When I continued reading your post you mentioned that they were speaking Spanish…bingo!
I come from a Latin background and I can tell you first hand that most Latino’s and romance language cultures are VERY loud when communicating the most basic and unemotional messages. This is also applicable to a lot of the Mediterranean cultures as well to include Arabic. Once you introduce the slightest bit of emotion into a conversation…FORGET ABOUT IT! The volume intensifies to a level that makes most people of the WASP culture uncomfortable when really no aggression is intended. I made a conscious effort when I was younger to be the complete opposite of that although I talk with my hands to excess. You are right as well as Latino’s accepting a strict regimen and “authoritarian” atmosphere. That is very cultural and stems from the extended family system.
The priest I grew up with and knew for my entire life was an off the boat, old school Castilian Spaniard. My neighborhood was predominantly Puerto Rican and he was the perfect fit for a Roman Catholic church in need of a native Spanish speaker. He was abrasive, loud, and often times came off as belligerent. He would yell and talk down to people. He sermons were fire and brimstone and he preached absolutes: It was the way of the Roman Catholic Church or the highway to hell [period]. He was the reason why I had a crisis of faith in my early teen years and if it wasn’t for an amazing friend that introduced me to his protestant church, I probably would never have found my spirituality…..but I digress. Years later I would come to understand and accept the culture and eventually returned to that church. Once I accepted the fact that he was just old fashioned I realized that he really was a man of God with a rough exterior and tough love approach. If Armageddon were to happen, I’d want him leading a platoon of believers against the forces of Satan. He passed away this year after forty years of service. I never thought I would…but I miss him.
As far as how to handle your situation, are you judging him by what you perceive to be misplaced aggression or by his acts as a spiritual leader and servant of the Lord? As the cliché goes: Actions speak louder than words (no pun intended). Step back a moment and observe. You might have to try a change of venue like I did to appreciate the situation. If all else fails, refer to KOS’s suggestion. It’s priceless.
"If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die historic on the Fury Road."November 9, 2014 at 8:59 pm #28707
What’s normal anymore? I would have to bring a Hershey’s bar and put the question to the members of my survival coven. Chocolate is good for thought and harmony. My motto is never try to talk to women when they’re hungry.November 9, 2014 at 9:09 pm #28708
"ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....
Cogito, ergo armatus sumNovember 10, 2014 at 5:13 am #28759
Sounds like he needs a good hard a$$ kickin …………that usually makes people reflect . Blanket party anyone ?November 10, 2014 at 7:35 am #28762
This is what Jesus said to do about a brother who sins against you, in Matthew 18:
15 “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”
This applies to pastors as much as the rank and file; in fact, those with more responsibility have even more required of them. Being a pastor isn’t the right to throw his weight around and dominate everyone else. “Pastor” means servant or shepherd, not arrogant master.
Keep in mind that blowing his stack is a symptom and not the core problem. There may be an anger or hostility issue in his life that he can’t master. Counselling to help him work out his issues [if he is willing to do this] might bring him healing and resolution. But if he refuses to repent and refuses to go through counselling then he is an unfit man for the role of pastor and the matter should be raised before the church for his dismissal.
If the pastor continues in sin but the church refuses to remove him from his post, then you must consider a church in which the leadership obeys the Bible, even if you have to start one yourself.November 10, 2014 at 4:40 pm #28798
“So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.” – 1 Peter 5
There are a number of warnings in your post:
– this is habitual
– he appears to be the sole pastor (versus a plurality of elders)
– mind control (they left because they don’t want the truth)
I was also in a “movement” that used these pressure tactics. They are NOT of God. Period.
Read 1 Peter 5: “not domineering over those in your charge…” This doesn’t mean the pastor isn’t bold, but he should never abuse his authority.
If there’s a sole leader (vs the New Testament order of a plurality of elders) it’s a prime situation for abuse. Not always, but the “Moses” model (sole elder) is not seen in the New Testament.
A word to the wise – stop fearing man (Jeremiah 17:5-8).
Find a biblical church that has a plurality of tested elders, preaches expositorily through books of the bible, and one that practices church discipline.November 10, 2014 at 8:17 pm #28811
Bug, You had problems before with this person, don’t waste your time, energy, and wellbeing on this man if there is no oversight mechanism already set in place. I don’t if there is a synod council or similar structure within your religious group buy I would certainly flie a complaint with them if there is. If your church is independent with no higher structural organization I would simply leave.November 10, 2014 at 8:19 pm #28812
Sorry reply on my phone.November 10, 2014 at 11:41 pm #28826
Bug, welcome to the forum. I say that it is not normal for a pastor to yell at people so I would have a problem with that.
There must be others feeling the same way as you. The pastor needs to be told.
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