Viewing 14 posts - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)
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  • #40577
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I’m not certain that they are guilty of any criminal activity, but they are certainly guilty of negligence. Gray was in their care custody and control. The civil suit will cost millions to the city. The mayor and the city will he sued as well for the property damages and injuries. The Mayor’s ‘ absured comments support big awards.

    #40578
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    I’m with 74 on this. If the injury occurred in the van, then it doesn’t seem that all of them could be found guilty of anything, unless they are collectively responsible for the prisoner being properly secured vs just the van driver being responsible for that.

    I hope the city and mayor are sued for withholding a police response to the rioting but I think there had been a Supreme Court ruling that said police have no obligation to protect the public. I believe that came out of a suit where police failed to respond to a call for help. The city & mayor will surely hide behind that if they can. What they can’t hide however will be the publicity such suits generate. What they can’t stop are businesses refusing to rebuild and more whites moving out of the city.

    I saw a video of a guy whose athletic shoe store was looted of about a million dollars worth of inventory. Apparently it was a very large place with its own warehouse. The looting went on for the entire night and the police refused to come. Even the one officer that did eventually come while the looting was still ongoing refused to take any action. This is a family owned business that was there for 3 generations. The owner said he recognized some of the looters caught on tape as his customers. With the Mayor dismissing looting as “just property”, my guess is the police will not file charges against anyone he identifies nor make any attempt to review the tapes. Even assuming this guy is in a position to rebuild, why should he after this experience?

    I wish there were more mothers dragging their kids home like that one woman did. If I had ever came home with new shoes when there was looting going on, if I couldn’t produce a receipt showing I had bought it from the store, my mother would have dragged me down there to give the shoes back, apologize to the owner, and then made me help him clean up the mess. And then when I got home from that is when the real punishment would have begun. Of course I’d of never participated in such a thing because I knew from a very early age what the rules of proper conduct were.

    The State’s Attorney that is filing charges looks to be a very biased person but in the end it will be a jury that makes the final decision. Her husband is one of the city councilman that has been very vocal about the rioters/looters only being misguided youth rather than thugs. You can bet the State’s Attorney, Mayor, and Police Chief don’t live in those neighborhoods.

    #40579
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    If the preamble to the Constitution means anything they are responsible.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    #40583
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    This is why we need video cameras in all police vans, cars and on all police officers. This will end the problem.

    It will not end the problem if they are in control of it . If the feeds went away from them and into a civil monitoring system , then perhaps there is a chance it could work . Another thing that needs to end is that ” resisting arrest ” has way too broad a meaning . It needs to be severely narrowed down in definition , as it stand now , ANY violent or non violent disobedience falls under it , and they use that to justify some unjustifiable actions . Some countries dont even have that , they just figure that no person is going to WANT to be arrested and is going to try to get out of it .
    Said it before and will say it again .
    What country has the biggest incarceration rate in the world ? The United States.
    Folks ………that says it all , the reason why there are no more peace officers left , is because incarceration is now a BUSINESS in the United States . You dont change that , it will only get worse . Take the money out of the whole system , take the business out of it , and return it to necessity only , like it once was ………..then your peace officers will return . Your neighborhood cops , that know everybody will return . Your cops will be more closely tied to the community , instead of an us vs. them mentality .

    #40584
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    If that includes jail staff, you’re understaffed.

    National average seems to be 1:2000.

    But you also have to consider work load and scheduling.

    Our little town of 2200 had 4 cops.
    That seems like a lot until you realize that’s only two guys a day, with a lot of night hours on call, no one out.

    #40587
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Whirlibird, 4 cops to 2000. Just enough to police the pink ladies. (Joke)

    #40589
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Whirli, the jails are run by the State Dept. of Corrections, though the Sheriff’s Dept may provide transport services for prisoners, so I guess we are well staffed. I know from a newspaper article that much of the Sheriff’s Dept staffing is given over to routine administrative stuff like dispatch, serving papers on people, court appearances, community policing presence at the high schools, and running special programs dealing with drug offenders and such, and of course responding to actual calls. There is very little resource left over for just routine patrolling. I only see a cruiser go up my road once or twice a year, if that. There is an extremely low rate of crime however and so we feel adequately covered.

    #40591
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Gray was arrested & murdered because he had a folding knife in his pocket. What “country” has the biggest incarceration rate in the world? Black America. What kind of trial will his killers get? An anonymous one. They won’t allow it to impede politics as usual. But the real heroes were the 60 people who sat in a circle and refused to obey the martial law curfew. They were arrested and dragged away. The mom who beat up her son got praised. The mayor was dunned for allowing business to burn. And all the authoritis had to do was hold those cops accountable. What an amazing drama. Its almost a certainity that it will be repeated on a larger scale someday and that city will burn. They were lucky this time. Lucky to have the 35 yo black prosecutor who charged the cops right away. She was the decisive point. She saved Baltimore.

    #40597
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    I think it is going to be a long hot summer in this regard. The police need to change their approach for sure, but the black politicians and community leaders need to change their approach too. Someone needs to have an honest conversation with the urban underclass. Nobody is going to create jobs in neighborhoods full of people that can barely read or write, or for that matter speak English even, and I’m not talking about immigrants on that last point. Of America’s major cities only NYC spends more per student than Baltimore so all the “need to invest in education” crap is just that, crap. A not so small fortune is already being spent per student in Baltimore. If the parents aren’t willing to make education important, no amount of money is going to solve the problem. My parents didn’t have much formal education but they sure made sure their kids did. When we came home from school we had to change out of our school clothes so as not to ruin them, then we did our homework. There was no playing or visiting friends until all the homework was done. Their expectations were that we’d do our best in school, A’s being proof that we were, and not getting into trouble. How many ghetto parents in Baltimore are doing what my parents did? My parents barely got by week to week and there were few luxuries ever so its not like there was much economic difference. Someone needs to tell the teenage girls that having kids in their teens all but guarantees a life of poverty. Being a druggie will in most instances guarantee them a life of poverty. Racking up an arrest record will preclude you from all but the most menial jobs. The other big piece is that businesses are not going to invest in these neighborhoods if the crime rates are as high as they are or if its the policy of the Mayor that rioters will be given free rein to riot. Someone needs to tell these people all these things as many times as it takes them to understand that only they can change their lot in life. Instead they’re being told that they’re victims. Sharpton and the gang make a good living holding their own people down. Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society and War on Poverty has failed miserably. It is time we admit it. Politicians and community leaders apologizing for calling people thugs for looting and burning only serves to reinforce that kind of violent and criminal behavior.

    I do agree that we shouldn’t be locking up so many non-violent drug users. The War on Drugs has failed miserably and its about time we admitted it.

    At this point I’m not sure any of the players on all sides of these issues are going to do anything differently though, so it will be a long summer. More cities will see riots, looting and burning, and more businesses and whites will then leave those cities, and the people left behind will be worse off than ever.

    #40632
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    There is a lot wrong about the charges against the officers.
    The speed of the charges being brought leaves a lot of room for mistakes.
    The stacking of charges shows an unscrupulous DA eager to make her mark on the back of a “major case”.
    The speed of the investigation and autopsy leave a number of questions, such as what did they miss in their haste.

    The DAs office charging quickly to avoid the rioting and damage, to save face will likely come back to bite them in the hind end when they can’t prove the charges and the subsequent issues.

    It all falls to prooving the charges, and whie the “rough ride” is the easiest, the intent behind the action is what they have to prove.

    Murder? Hardly. Not going to fly.
    Involuntary? Most likely. Because the negligent action of the rough ride could habe caused injury.

    The original officers who arrested over the knife, they have to prove that the officers knew the knife was legal/illegal. If they were trained that a particular style of knife was illegal despite the law saying different, its an affirmative defense and fals back on inadequate training.

    And its hardly a race issue, half of the officers are black.

    This will be an interesting year, with so many officers getting attacked and/or shot, the lawsuits and charges brought in so many cases, many officers are going to coast.

    They will look at how long they have until retirement and slow down responses, they wil not take the risks they might have previously, the attitude wil be, let them burn their houses and neighborhoods down, why risk it.

    #40633
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I watched the video of officers putting Gray into the van this morning, I hadn’t seen it before. His injury had already occured before the ride. He is as limp as a carcass when they load him. Whatever happened had nothing to do with being in the van.

    #40639
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Yes, Mr. Gray was clearly in a lot of pain before he ever got to the police van. There are no winners here. Certainly not Mr. Gray or his family and not the officers involved either. Sadly there are others in positions of power who are trying to use this tragedy for their own gain. There is no surprise that charges were filed. I’d of been surprised if they weren’t, but this young inexperienced State’s Attorney was perhaps a bit too quick reaching her conclusions. Not doing a careful review may well come back to bite her. I have no doubt but that TPTB put a lot of pressure on her to act as she did.

    The one reprehensible person in all of this is the Mayor who is now avoiding letting reporters ask her the tough questions about her “space to destroy” and “only property” comments and her order for the police to stand down. I listened to a brief news conference yesterday that abruptly ended with the first question she didn’t want to answer. In her opening remarks it was as if she would have us believe that the looted store owners at that mall are going to move forward as if nothing ever happened.

    #40642
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    I watched the video of officers putting Gray into the van this morning, I hadn’t seen it before. His injury had already occured before the ride. He is as limp as a carcass when they load him. Whatever happened had nothing to do with being in the van.

    The MEs report disagrees with your assessment.

    #45543
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous
    Survivalist

    While I do subscribe, wholeheartedly, to the concept of “innocent until proven guilty,” I still have some thoughts about the shooting of the teen in Chicago over a year ago. Certainly the police (and the Mayor’s Office) had the video almost immediately. Yes, it looks very, very bad, since the kid is in the middle of the street, quite a distance from any human being. And unless he’s expert at knife throwing (an unlikely probability), he’s no immediate threat to anyone (despite obviously posing a potential lethal threat to anyone he might later get close to). The officer that shot him was only out of his vehicle for six seconds before pumping 16 rounds through the kid’s body (amazingly good shooting, actually), and had only been on scene for 30 seconds. Not good!

    So – why did it take over a year to charge Officer Van Dyke, and only days longer to finally release the video?

    I suspect politics, pure and simple. If they’d come to what appears to be reasonable probable cause and charged Van Dyke 12 months ago, and released the video as soon as legally appropriate, they MIGHT have held off all but the most blatant of protesters intent on disruption regardless of excuse. But no – this is Rahm “never let a crisis go to waste” Emanual. He didn’t want to hurt his re-election chances (very much in doubt at the time), and by holding on to it this long, he almost ENSURED a more potent backlash from the black community. Who would NOT be outraged at more than a year to come to some kind of charging determination, then followed by the release of a clearly provocative video that had been kept under wraps for over a year?

    Great job, Mr. Mayor! Your buddy Barack gave you some good time in the big leagues, then sent you back to further destroy Chicago, having gained some great experience (and tutoring). Don’t focus on the massive murder rate of blacks by blacks – create another crisis to re-focus on what may well be one very bad cop. Had they done that a year ago, they (Chicago “leader”ship) could have been looked at with respect by many in the black community, by taking control of a situation, coming to a reasonable conclusion, holding what appeared to be a guilty party responsible, being totally transparent with the public, etc., etc. No, it would not have satisfied everyone – there are those (like the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons) that subscribe to the Emanual doctrine as well, who would have pounced on it anyway. But a much larger percentage might have actually (even if grudgingly) appreciated Chicago’s openness and transparency, and allowed the system to work its way through the crisis.

    But no – Mayor Emanual (and the Feds who normally LOVE to come swooping in on these kinds of cases) kept quiet for a YEAR. And they’re surprised that “Miracle Mile” black Friday shopping was disrupted?!? Hey – it got the focus off the insolvency of the City, the pitiful murder rate in Chicago, and the complete failure of the Emanual administration, as well as all those that preceded him.

    Nice going, Rahm…. And they even put a cherry on that topping by charging Officer Van Dyke with 1st degree murder. That will be difficult to prove when he wasn’t even on scene more than ½ minute, and pumped all 16 rounds into the kid (including his back, and after he was already on the ground) only six seconds out of his vehicle. He didn’t have TIME to premeditate it to a degree a jury is likely to buy into. So then Rahm gets yet another crisis to milk when the jury does NOT go with the 1st degree murder charge. Presumably they’ll at least have a lesser-degree charge awaiting him that would bring more than a year or two in jail – but then, this is Chicago, and any crisis is better than no crisis at all.

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