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  • #34781
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    First let me state that from my perspective people should be allowed to earn as much as they possibly can.

    I just read where someone bought an 11,000 square foot high rise condo in New York city for just over $100 million dollars. This is individual spent in excess of $100 million dollars for a condo that he actually doesn’t own any land, since it is on the top two floors of a high rise.

    Can you imagine having the resources for something like that, and not even owning the land that is under it? We are truly becoming a nation of have’s and have not. As this spread continues to grow, I suspect that we are starting to see civil unrest. More and more people are talking about it being unfair. Isn’t that what is really behind the unrest in MO and NY?

    If I had even a small fraction of that, I would be looking at land, and a secure homestead.

    #34788
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Income equality is a communist concept devised to capture support of people unable to think for themselves. There is no time in human history, in any culture, that an economic hierarchy didn’t develop. The only thing different about current times is the 24/7 drum beat by people that want to be in control of more money and power.

    #34797
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    There is no system of government in history that has had income equality because it doesn’t work. There is some people that are smart doing business and then there are the children of the rich that where born into wealth.

    I am for capitalism being open and not regulated by the government which is what is happening. The people that have ideas about a business now have a lot of regulation that slows them down or makes it very hard and expensive to do business. Capitalism that had little regulation was when the little guy with the right idea gambled with his savings to establish a new business and were able to dream of becoming a millionaire. Many didn’t make it but you were free to try.

    We have not had capitalism for some time now. When the government uses the peoples money to save the companies that they say are to big to fail this is when capitalism stopped. In capitalism the government need to let the big and small fail if there business doesn’t make a profit. That is how it works and how America became a world power.

    #34798
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Oh forgot that we are a Socialist government for more then 8 years now.

    #34816
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    freedom, I hear what you are saying but we do need some regulation. The real question is how much. For example, before there were environmental laws, businesses and cities just dumped raw sewerage and industrial wastes into rivers poisoning the water of everyone downstream from them. Before there were child labor laws, we had 10 year olds working 12 hours a day in sweat shops, and if they died or were maimed there was no penalty or even expense for the factory owner. Before there were labor laws, life was good if you were a young healthy white Protestant male If you didn’t fit that description life had a whole lot more limitations. I could go on and on with examples.

    Yes, we do over-regulate and often in ridiculous ways but I don’t want to go back to the days of no regulation.

    #34818
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    On the issue of income inequality itself, the gap grows and then it eventually narrows. It goes in cycles. If the gap gets too big it is destabilizing and a correction of some sort will occur. Though someone spending $100 million on a condo staggers the imagination for sure, go for it if they have the money and that’s how they want to spend it. That kind of conspicuous consumption is a turnoff for me but it’s their money. There are lots of folks out there who think we’re crazy for spending money on preps. To each his own.

    #34821
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    MountainBiker, I am not talking about the regulations of some environmental laws but what has happen is they have gone why passed that. They are regulating businesses out. Some regulations are needed but now you can’t put up a lemonade stand that kids used to sell or a kid can’t go cut someones yard without a license. In some cities you can’t be a taxi if you do not have a license which in some cities cost $50,000 to $100,000. Over regulation is a way to control the people. Obama has passed more regulations than all the Presidents before him. There needs to be laws that for a regulation that impacts the nation needs to be approved by the congress and signed by the President. This may help to a point.

    Obama is using regulations to close down coal, oil and gas right now, he has passed some in the last two months.
    This is his way to get green. He will find a way to regulate gun control too. Maybe Ammo, gun parts.

    #34825
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    The latest statistic is that the 85 wealthiest people in the world have more wealth than the poorest 50%. I agree a free and open capitalist system is the best system for everyone. You work hard and you can climb the ladder and bring prosperity to not only your family, but potentially provide economic growth for others.

    As someone said, we no longer have a capitalist system. I agree this type of conspicuous consumption if it continues will generate some adjustment at some point. However, my question is, what this destabilization will mean for us.

    With the government espousing a to big to fail philosophy, how does the regular guy keep the wealth that he has earned by his hard work?

    #34834
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    freedom, I agree that we way over-regulate now. I was just responding to you saying “no regulation”. We are not in disagreement on the real issue here.

    roadracer, I agree that the gap has grown too large. Conspicuous consumption like that will breed resentment. That the purchase was done anonymously speaks to an arrogance of sorts which also contributes to the us-them. Back in the Robber Baron days there was conspicuous consumption on steroids if you think of places like Newport, Rhode Island and the “cottages” as they called their mansions in those days, but at the same time they were funding libraries, schools, parks and so forth. Infrastructure that was visible and often usable by many people. The elite do donate vast sums still but the manner in which they do isn’t quite as visible by average people or tangible in a real sense like libraries and schools were. The rich are more detached from the real world now than their counterparts were a century ago.

    I don’t think the destabilization of a growing gap will mean much for us here. My guess is that it is the super rich that will come to fear the general population. You can see it already with their armed bodyguards, armored vehicles and other security apparatus. Maybe this is why people like Bloomberg & Soros spend so much money trying to disarm the general population when they themselves are protected 24/7 by their personal private armies so to speak. Even at a much lower level in the moneyed hierarchy, the proliferation of gated communities and home security systems speaks to those “with” trying to keep themselves separate from those “without”.

    #34861
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    Mountain Biiker, good points. I know what you are saying. It just struck me, that all of us here are looking at our resources and how best to use them for our preps, and to take care of our families.

    It also made me wonder if the SHTF, and things get really nasty, how do you hole up on the 80th floor of a high rise. With no power it’s a long walk down. I guess you send your man servant.

    #34865
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Roadracer,
    If there is no value to currency only material goods will be valued. As far as the guy on the 80th floor he would probably have several other homes in quiet places. If he’s not prepared it won’t matter how much money he has.

    #34873
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Roadracer, its been a while since I’ve been in NYC but I remember the last time I was there being amazed at the sheer number of helicopters flying over Manhattan at any given time. Most of those skyscrapers have heliports on top to ferry the elite to the airports or elsewhere outside the city. The $100 million condo guy likely has his own helicopter at one of the small airports outside the city ready to whisk him away should it be needed. He likely then has a private jet at the airport where the helicopter is kept. These folks tend to have multiple homes, but that does not mean those homes are stocked (other than the wine cellar) or in locations that make for good BOL’s. Some rich folks bought a 4th home just up the road from me. #’s 1 – 3 are the family home in Connecticut, a winter home in Florida, and a summer home on a lake in New Hampshire. My informant tells me that they may have sold the CT home at this point and just do the winter/summer split, and of course their time here in VT. The one they bought here is nice but is what I’d call an upper middle class type home at best, not a very rich person home. Viewing that place with my prepper eye. I can see it as a BOL. Whether they see it that way or not I have no idea nor do I know their motivation in buying it. Waterfront homes in FL and on a lake in NH do not make for good BOL’s, and certainly an estate in the suburbs of NYC doesn’t. I’ll meet these folks this summer and look forward to better sizing up the situation. They hired a neighbor to do a lot of handyman stuff for them and so I’ll get to meet them at one of my neighbor’s frequent cookouts. By all accounts they are down to earth folks. They had my neighbors (the handyman) who live in a trailer over for diner last autumn. I hope this is a BOL for them being the wife is a medical doctor. I don’t see these rich folks as being typical of their class though. You can bet the condo guy has never had anyone who lives in a trailer over for dinner.

    #34878
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    Good points. I had the same thoughts as far as getting out of dodge, perhaps even going to a foreign country.

    It sounds like you may have hit the jackpot with the new neighbors. We also have a doctor nearby and have become friends them. Her husband is a very aware guy, and they are a real benefit to the neighborhood. One of the nice things is that being rich does not require you to be a jerk.

    #34884
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    100 million dollars, he can buy a helicopter + that is two floors. It is bigger that two of my homes together so maybe he has five years of food and water up there.

    #34887
    Profile photo of MountainBiker
    MountainBiker
    Survivalist
    member10

    Maybe freedom, but I doubt it.

    And now I am off for a couple days. Be back online Wednesday I think.

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