November 21, 2015 at 12:20 am #45358
I’ve been thinking about this for much of this week following the Paris attacks and figured why not get others here helping me think it through. Specifically if the jihadis were successful in taking down the grid, or at least a large geographic area such as the Northeast which holds a major part of the country’s population. Unlike an EMP where one could assume the grid is down on a very long term basis and we’re truly on our own, in a terrorist assault none of us are going to know just how long it will be down. Days? Weeks? Months? Years? The answer of course is it depends upon exactly what they did, but those of us on the ground will be hard put to be getting reliable info. Winter will soon be here and in these parts it gets mighty cold, as low as 25 below 0 on occasion. The last two winters have been colder than normal. The average temp here last February was 7. I have a wood stove and maybe 3 years worth of wood so we won’t freeze….but we have neighbors who do not have wood stoves. A couple have emergency generators, but those are only short term options. Those without wood stoves will seek shelter with those who do. Though the larger hamlet (not enough here to call ourselves a village) has several hundred people spread across several square miles, it stands to reason that we’d be the first refuge our 4 immediate neighbors would seek. We’re good friends with two of the households and I know they don’t have wood stoves. We’re friendly with the 3rd. I doubt they have a wood stove but if they do they don’t use it and they don’t have a supply of wood. We’d gladly take in those 3 families for the winter months if we had to. Partnering with those 3 households is part of my plan. If the 3rd family did have a stove I could give them wood so as to allow them to stay in their own home.
As for the 4th we are polite to the point of waving but otherwise do not interact and I’d just as soon not take them in from the cold. The husband seems to be OK, the wife is not to be trusted, and the young adult son is a loser. In an emergency I’d expect the welfare queen daughter and her 3 toddlers to show up on their doorstep. There is also an elderly woman there who that crew descended upon “to take care of her” when her husband died a couple years ago. They’ve since gotten her to sign the house over to them so they’re not going anywhere. The old gal is OK and actually very knowledgeable about gardening, though she hasn’t done it in a very long time. Before the current crew showed up I had been in that house on a number of occasions but for the life of me cannot remember if there is a wood stove or not. I’m thinking not but if there is, they don’t use it and don’t have a wood supply. One option I have to keep them away is to offer up a small wood stove I have in the garage that I had in the basement of my prior house. I saved the chimney piping from it too. It is small but if kept running at maximum I suspect it would do an adequate job to at least keep their house livable. I could supply the wood as well. Part of what makes this complicated is that we’re not likely to know how long the power would be out. If it turned out to only be a relatively short duration, coming to blows with these folks during the outage could have legal ramifications afterwards, or at a minimum make for a difficult neighborhood situation. Were it to be a long term situation, if we weaken ourselves fighting each other in the neighborhood it is going to be all the harder to defend the neighborhood against unfriendlies from afar who may come our way.
Thoughts.November 21, 2015 at 2:07 am #45360
With a total lack of current reliable info, things will “Go South” very, very quickly. In hours,not days.
You must look at the reality of any situation and make cold-blooded decisions and yes, maybe pay
for them. People that “expect” others to be responsible for their well being are called “burdens”
As a civilized person, you -to a degree try to be “helpful”. However, in the middle of winter with no
electricity is a major burden for you and your loved ones. How do your other 3 neighbors get along
with that 4th one? People panic very easily and do irrational things when scared witless. Even life
long trusted neighbors can turn on you. You should be discussing this with your 3 “friendly”
neighbors very seriously while not offering to heat their homes for them. Any wood you help out
to them should be replaced by their labor or goods. That’s teamwork in disguise.November 21, 2015 at 2:28 am #45372
The rag heads seem to have a strange fixation with NYC , it would probably get hit first in the NE . They seem obsessed with it ……………….shows how well they know us . I would actually throw a party if they did . That does bring up an important aspect for anyone , which is finding alternative heating , both short and long term for the area you live in . One thing about Maine and Vermont …………they dont have a shortage of trees ……..harvesting it could put you at risk every time you go out tho .November 21, 2015 at 2:44 am #45373
wga1944, household # 1 is a divorced woman with her teenage daughter. Household #2 is the mother/grandmother to household #1. Household #2 also has a husband and a mentally handicapped man that the State pays the woman to care for. She has had him for 25 years or so since he was a kid. The mentally handicapped man does not have any behavioral issues. He is just low intelligence and I assume autistic too given he is non-verbal. He communicates using a little sign language and gutteral sounds but fully understands anything you say to him and follows instructions. We’re good friends with all of them and socialize often. Household #3 are recently retired folks and their young adult son who is in process of buying the house from them sometime this coming year. We get along great with them and have helped each other where and how we can but we don’t otherwise socialize. Household #3 gets along well with #’s 1 & 2 but they don’t socialize either. Pretty much we all just keep our distance from household #4.
The problem in discussing what to do with household #4 in such a scenario is I can’t discuss it with the good neighbors without myself then becoming the crazy neighbor. That’s what happens when preppers open their mouths to non-preppers concerning “what might be coming”. It is the problem all preppers face. I would add that all 3 households have skills that would be good come SHTF.
I suppose if this happens I would be able to meet with the 3 good neighbors to talk about how we handle #4.November 21, 2015 at 2:46 am #45374
I don’t see how you will be able to give away your wood and make it long term. Think about this option if you want to help them through the winter. Out on your wood lot cut down a few trees that are good size for fire wood and leave them in the woods or limb the trees and drag them out to an access point. Eventually everyone will be using manual crosscut saws because gasoline will be gone. Buy a few extra saws now so you can lend them out. When the lights go out, let your neighbors cut the logs into lengths, split and haul their own wood. As payment for the wood and use of your equipment they can cut some wood for you.
Inexpensive wood stoves can be constructed from 55 gallon drums using kits. Buy some barrels, kits and extra stove pipe and stash it all away. Don’t bother with double wall just get single wall pipe and the fittings required to get the pipe past the roof line of their house. When they need a stove barter for something they have. You don’t need to make a tough deal just so they are happy with the deal and your not giving away your stuff.
Always make a deal for stuff so you are not the pattsie they come to for free stuff.November 21, 2015 at 2:50 am #45375
Tolik, I don’t doubt but that NYC would be prioritized by the jihadis but if they pull the plug on NYC, the outage could extend to heaven knows where the way things are interconnected. And yes, Vermont and Maine would never run out of trees, or water for that matter.November 21, 2015 at 3:10 am #45377
Good thoughts 74. #4 as I am calling them only have an acre or two but the back portion of their own land is wooded which would be a start for them plus the land on their north side is empty (owned by some guy in New Hampshire none of us have ever met) where they could harvest wood too and not have to haul it so far. In my woods there is standing and fallen dead stuff here and there already. Right on the edge of the road currently I have two very large standing dead trees (a black cherry and an ash) that I’m bartering with someone on to take down for me and clean up the mess, keeping the wood for firewood as payment. A lot of folks around here with more time and energy than money. I suppose it would be easy to tuck away a couple cross saws. The other supplies wouldn’t be too bad either. Thinking more about #4’s land, immediately behind them is a farm raising beef cattle. They also sugar. We’re friends with that farm family and get beef, maple syrup,and eggs from them and they too don’t have any use for #4 so there’s another household that can be dialed into figuring out how to interact with and handle #4.November 21, 2015 at 3:18 am #45378
Sell or barter #4 a stove and a saw . Make sure you do a fair deal so they don’t think you’re a pushover. Not so tough that they feel ripped off though.November 21, 2015 at 4:04 am #45380
I think everyone is on the same page. Since you have established at least some rapport with #1, 2 and 3 and the farm family, I suspect that you will have plenty of help to contain the group at #4. If I remember from a previous thread, the wife at #4 is the real problem. Do any of the women in your neighborhood have any interaction or relationship with her? If she is the alpha female perhaps that would be the way to contain them.November 21, 2015 at 4:35 am #45381
Roadracer, yes the wife in #4 is the problem. None of the other women in the neighborhood talk to her. She is the one who has manipulated her way into getting the house signed over and getting herself power of attorney over the old woman’s assets. Nothing anyone can do about it though. The old woman is not senile, just physically weak, so she got snookered while of sound mind. As I said, the husband seems OK, but she’s the brains of the operation.November 21, 2015 at 6:30 pm #45390
Very green greenhouse – take a look : )November 21, 2015 at 7:56 pm #45391
Leopard, solar heaters from soda cans:
Also build small “greenhouse” that can mount on the outside of windows and doors.
I used plexiglass to build a “box” around some windows.
EMP/Power out: When “Desert Shield” became “Desert Storm” one of the first missions was to take out all power stations around Saddam’s anti-aircraft bases. We did this with a special type of Mylar tape. Imbedded with strands of metal. Spooled into a BUNCH of cruise missiles. As the missiles reached their targets the tape would come out slowly. The missile would make circles around the site until all the tape was ejected. The tape fell onto the transformers and power lines. Shorted everything out! Done this way the Allies did not have to rebuild any generation sites or power stations around critical infrastructure needed for the rebuild.
RobinNovember 21, 2015 at 8:29 pm #45392
Interesting – had a look at all the videos. I think I am going to build a new chicken house and a small green house. Going to try and use just materials I’ve got lying around. My chickens doing really well – got 14 fluffy little chicks this week. The solar can heater will be a good school project for children.November 21, 2015 at 9:47 pm #45393
If memory serves, those were the KIT II missiles….
MB, don’t know what to tell you about #4. Wife not to be trusted and the adult son is a loser? Seems you answered your question right there…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1November 22, 2015 at 1:11 am #45396
Very interesting solar home Leopard.
Thanks all for helping me think through the lights out – neighbor thing. It made me realize the entire neighborhood sees them as a problem and that how to handle it is not solely on my shoulders. Come SHTF, hopefully the husband will be able to keep his little clan in line because if not the neighborhood will have no choice but to. It is what it is.
74, I knew I wouldn’t find any but I went into town this morning looking for a 2 man cross saw anyway. I’ve looked online and there are a number to choose from.
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