January 5, 2015 at 5:50 pm #33654
LOL attempting hypothermia or near it, don’t let yourself get that cold it’s much better for you.January 5, 2015 at 6:23 pm #33658
Yeah 74, I tend to agree, but the getting too cold thing sneaks up on you. I did have hypothermia once and don’t recommend it. It was in August doing a bike race up Mt. Washington in NH. The event was out of my league but I was honor bound to do it. My friends were doing various races and trying to talk me into doing them too. Because one of our standing jokes was how I tended to be too cautious on downhills I said I’d do a race if they found me one that only goes uphill. I had no idea there actually was one. Crap. Anyway, in addition to the race itself being out of my league, I came dressed for a summer ride…. half finger gloves, bike shorts, short sleeve tee shirt. It was OK early on but once we got above the tree line, I found myself in the pouring rain with the temp in the 30’s, the wind at 30mph, and in the clouds. After a couple uphill miles hypothermia started setting in and the most cohesive thought I could form was that I was better off moving forward than stopping. The paper race # on the front of my bike was dissolving in the rain and I was thinking I won’t get credit for finishing if I didn’t have my number, the fact that I had a matching label one on my helmet being a thought that completely escaped me. I hung onto that paper race number for dear life. I finished the race in 2 hours 10 seconds after a steady hour 45 minutes pace prior to the hypothermia setting in and slowing me to a crawl but I did finish. I couldn’t really talk at that point and it took me about 45 minutes to get out of my wet clothes and put on dry ones that were waiting for me on top. I didn’t have any coordination and the mind was fuzzy until I fully warmed up again. So, I really don’t recommend hypothermia.January 5, 2015 at 6:47 pm #33665
C…. No offense, but I would rather my chestnuts are roasting over an open fire than my oysters frozen for later use.
http://ageofdecadence.comJanuary 5, 2015 at 8:36 pm #33677
Oh what fun!
Well I think some of the logistical problems of surviving a fall through the Ice should be discussed. Unless you have a friend with dry clothing waiting for you at the edge of the water you could have real problems.
I have fallen through the ice as a kid and the whole event Including walking home with your clothes frozen stiff is a real learning experience.January 5, 2015 at 8:46 pm #33685
Because nobody is going to be standing there with dry clothes for you to put on after falling through the ice, is the smart thing to do taking off those wet clothes rather than holding the moisture against you? There was recently a thread dealing with wet feet that had us taking off the boots so as to let the water drain away from the skin. Keeping wool socks on was good, and if so, would keeping wool clothing on after falling through ice also be a good thing?
It would seem that after falling through ice, unless you can get into dry warm clothes or into shelter fairly quickly, or build a fire fairly quickly, that most of us are going to be in serious trouble.January 5, 2015 at 9:02 pm #33688
Wool is good even when wet. Polypropylene is ok as well. Better than bare skin. If the air is really cold or there is wind I would rather a suit of ice then no protection at all. Getting somewhere that has heat fast is the real key as far as I can figure.January 5, 2015 at 11:14 pm #33701
74. All good points. I’ll enjoy watching your video demo. of how to surmount the problems you describe, they are indeed significant.January 5, 2015 at 11:54 pm #33708
Sorry Toby no polar bear events for me, I learned my lesson long ago. However I must say that if I was anticipating the potential of a dunk in the water enough to have ice picks at the ready, then I should have a dry bag at the ready stuffed with clothes and a down bag. The bag can be used for flotation under your belly to make getting out easier.January 6, 2015 at 12:17 am #33709
Well this video is level 2 of level 6 of what I teach, but as I say, I eagerly await your advice on how to deal with further advancements of this situation successfully….January 6, 2015 at 12:57 am #33711
Toby, I already successfully delt with it and I’m still alive by staying off thin ice. It’s so much easier and more comfortable then swiming in freezing water. Like I said earlier I’m interested to see you get out of the water in a snowmobile suit.
Really Toby after falling through when I was about 12, and having a family friend drown at 12 because he fell through the ice on a small pond. I don’t mess around on lakes, rivers or ponds in the winter it doesn’t have a lot of attraction for me.January 6, 2015 at 2:03 am #33717
I stay off the ice too these days. I shudder thinking about my ice adventures as a kid, but with age comes wisdom as they say. I have a pond in the backyard and the inflow area never freezes, even when it dips to 20 below. The rest of it freezes up good I suppose but somewhere between the thick ice and the unfrozen sector the ice gets thin and I’ve never gone out there to figure out where.January 6, 2015 at 2:35 am #33718
Ha, well knowing that isn’t going to change your day anyway. Falling in will though.January 6, 2015 at 10:55 am #33734
Avoiding the ice is definitely a good strategy, but from a survival perspective not always achievable or desirable. The integration of dry bags into back packs for sure helps being better prepared for this type of scenario along with the development in ‘semi dry suit’ technology, from my perspective though it is always interesting to explore the ‘non-equipment solutions’ to problems as well as the ‘equipment solutions’.January 6, 2015 at 2:14 pm #33735
Well if you’re going to force me to go on your adventure without an immersion suit and leave it up to a novice, this is what i will do.
The problem as I see it is how much weight are you willing to carry for safety on the ice, versus whatever else you are out there for in the first place. How much room on and in a pack will you dedicate to safety. There are lots of things you could bring to ensure survival and rig a bag just for that purpose.
This is what I want for your scenario assuming this is a backpacking trip away from help.
1 set of Ice Claws
A light weight bag with a single shoulder strap cross body carry. The bag has to have large nylon zipper, lubed with “zipper eaze” and large pulls with additional small straps on the pulls.
Inside the shoulder bag in a vacuum packed bag:
Stored in ziplock freezer bags
Mid weight polypropylene long underwear top & bottom or union suit, socks, mittens, fleece hat
Thinsulate Boot Liners
2 tall kitchen trash bags to be used as boots over liners
Light weight wind breaker Jacket & Pants, Velco front closure, elastic waist pants.
Emergency Survival Sleep Space Blanket Bag.
10 Large exothermic hand warmers
Butane lighter, strike anywhere matches, ferro rod & striker
5″x 7″ file card
Small baggie of magnesium shavings
5 oz of thermite
1 drum liner trash bag to stand on and later for all my wet clothes.
If I have a backpack I want a positive flotation pool noodle strapped to the bag in a u across the bottom and sides.
On the left shoulder strap 50 ft of para-cord folded for throwing, attached to a 3″ Oval Shaped Plastic Rope Float. Light Velcro straps holding the bundle.
Everything in the backpack has to be in water proof bags.
If you go in; throw the weighted cord as far as possible toward the way in.
One attempt out with back pack on
Dump pack if ice breaks
Climb out and slide away from the hole toward the way in
Remove safety bag
Open safety bag and zip locks with clothing, do not remove contents
Open hand warmer bag. rip open hand warmers using ice claws if necessary
Put on hat
Remove wet top layers and put on dry tops and wind breaker
Remove bottom layers, socks boots
Put on dry bottoms, socks boot liners, bags on feet and wind pants
Place hand warmers in long underwear top and bottom, and pockets for hands.
Close safety bag and re-sling
Stuff wet clothes in large trash bag
Pull Backpack from water
Drag clothes and back pack to shore if possible, but clothing must make it to shore
Find a dead tree down fall, dead branches plastic bottles a boat or anything that will burn and as much of it as you can fast.
Put the the bag of magnesium in the thermite bag and put both in the fire pile. Light the magnesium with a strip of the card and move away from the thermite. Make the fire as large as possible without starting a forest fire.
Put on your space blanket sleeping bag and use the hand warmers next to the fire and hope you live. If you manage to live, keep the fire going and dry your wet clothing by the fire. When it’s all dry you can either walk out and go home or go get your frozen backpack off the ice. Hope your cars keys are in your pocket.
Edit: At this point your so paranoid about falling in through the ice you pre-stage a bonfire in a sheltered spot on shore before you venture across, including a leanto and a thick bed of dry leaves.January 6, 2015 at 4:28 pm #33750
I’m sure Toby will tell you what you missed, if anything, but you sure have thought this through. I am not familiar with zipper eaze. Will that keep the zipper mechanism from freezing up on you? You have yourself getting dressed half and half (top 1st, then bottom). I’d consider stripping down entirely 1st so as to make sure the dry shirt etc being put on doesn’t get wet from the wet pants you are still wearing. Having the hand warmers at the ready is a smart move because after immersion your hands will quickly become almost unusable otherwise due to the cold. The long zipper pulls & straps will help with the temporarily compromised hand dexterity too.
After all this discussion yesterday, I made sure to really bundle up this morning when I went for a walk, including wearing biker/runner tights (and undies with the wind shield layer) under my jeans. The only ice I encountered of course was on the road. No pond adventures for this boy.
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