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  • #22071
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Whirlibird….

    I was just now able to get back online to respond to your last post. My phone won’t let me log in for some reason. I did want to give you some more information about the cases that you referenced. In further examination I am sure that you will see that the GSR from the handloads was the least of the issues with these cases:

    Link

    Link

    And take a look at the citings from this case used in other cases.

    Link

    It was a long and annoying process, but I pulled out the following information from those links.

    The ballistics expert used the same handloads in the same pistol to produce GSR from distances up to 30 inches. Other handloads from the house also showed GSR at distances up to 30 inches. There was also no searing on the skin, which meant that the pistol was fired from a distance of more than 12 inches. The pistol was also in the victim’s left hand. She was right handed. Lastly, the victim had an arm length of 27.25 inches, but with the angle and bullet path would have had to have pulled the trigger from a distance of 1.75 inches from the head. This means that ALL the forensic evidence (and not just the GSR) was used to prosecute Daniel Bias.

    Now let us not forget that the victim that lived with him had displayed suicidal ideations in the past, agreed upon by the defense. Even with the increased risk of suicide, the firearm was completely accessable to her. This was one of the main factors in the prosecution persuing the murder charge.

    The reasons revolving the hung juries was based upon mishandling of evidence more than any other factor. Due to the handload testing resulting in the use of most of the rounds, they could not hand over enough for the defense to fully test and possibly refute Sgt. Leisinger’s testimony. This created some reasonable doubt and was a major point for the defense. This point of contention was not his undoing, but actually kept him out of jail for murder. The prosecution finally got the conviction by saying that he pointed the pistol at the victim and pulled the trigger while not thinking that it was loaded.

    When they pushed a different charge, they were finally able to convict. He also broke the conditions of his release and was charged with a 4th degree weapons charge.

    Use of case during a study

    Because of the CSI affect today and the distrust of prosecutors, the case only got a 42% guilty verdict during the study. The main reason was due to those taking the study disbelieving the forensics on both sides because of how the evidence was handled. This really shows how even strong forensics supporting the prosecution’s argument overshadowing GSR evidence in question. This means that the GSR presence really wasn’t that big of a factor.

    In Tennesee vs. Barnes there was an evidence problem. Even Massad states, “The evidence was messed up in a number of ways in this case, and I do not believe the reloaded ammo (which the prosecution did not recognize to be such until during the trial) was the key problem, but it definitely was part of a problem in reconstructing the case.” There are all sorts of problems with cases, but good record keeping (which is necessary for any reloader) and using standard loads would remove this as an issue from the court case if it even went that far.

    In the other two cases, they involved LEO’s and liability. To potentially mitigate this liability the departments and brotherhood of blue really have pushed the use of factory loads. Again, the important point is that the department was getting sued (probably whether they were hand loads or factory) and it was not an individual in a self defense situation.

    So in summary….. Whirlibird. You are correct. We will have to respectfully disagree on this point.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #22073
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>74 wrote:</div>Sledjockey,

    We have a few posters that have strong opinions about…well about almost everything. Don’t let it bother you..they’re harmless.

    Whirly,<br>
    Both of those cases are in NJ., they do not qualify for consideration in the remaining 49 states. I’m surprised you are using them as the basis for your thinking. You could go to jail for having one hollow point (even a 22LR) in your trunk in NJ. Any opportunity to harass a gun owner with prosecution in NJ is taken to the max.

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>undeRGRönd wrote:</div>Jersey gun laws SUCK.

    So does Fat Ba$tard, “Krispy-Kreme Christie”

    No RINOs for President…

    I appreciate your comments. Believe me, I really do. I was getting a little miffed and felt attacked for just having a difference of opinion, which kind of threw me.

    In many forums there tends to be a “core group” that are supportive of each other and don’t allow anyone to call anyone in their group out for questionable information. SHTF Forums never seemed like one of thsoe places, so I was happy to get involved here. When I posted my opinion and added the whole “resupply” aspect to the discussion, I had no idea that I was going to get the response I did regarding my suggested resupply plan or the types of handloads we have used for years. Again, it threw me for a loop.

    If nothing else, I hope that the information that both Whirlibird and I have put out will allow other members to make up their own minds in a more educated fashion.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #22107
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    sledjockey, 74 and I get responses like that all the time here and many of the other member do too. This forum is a great free for all opinion site. You will get hit hard here even if you are right on something or not. Just don’t let it get to you and in joy how we all believe in freedom to disagree with each other.

    Some may use bad language but do not let it get to you. When you get to know them a little more personally they are good guy that just get heated up in the post sometimes.

    This is what America should be about. Disagree but we keep on talking to each other no matter what we post here.

    #22109
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    undeRGRond, Agree!!!! If Krispy-Kreme Christie gets nominated for the Republican Presidential elections the Republicans will lose! We need to stop these Republican left wingers, I had enough of that in the last two elections.

    #22114
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Sled,
    There is sort of a core group, mostly because they like me, they were here early and post often, but the opinions and temperaments are different among everyone. If someone posts a load generally they will be corrected. Some people just can’t take constructive criticism, and sarcasm is hard to pick up on in text which can incite the more excitable personalities. When it comes down to the basics everyone is pretty much on the same page. If you want some real fun sharpen up a stick and poke Malgus a few times, reminds me of wrestling in the mud. :)

    #22116
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    74 is right Malgus will let you have it but Malgus is a brother here and after he lets the steam out he comes down. We all have some heated post here. If you want me to get hot just talk about how beautiful communism is and I will let you have it. Am I right 74?

    #22120
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    freedom wrote:
    undeRGRond, agree! I purchased the 9,000 when the price was $24 for 550 round box. I now buy only one box at a time to use for the range and to keep the same supply stored.

    Very Kewl, FREE, Old Friend!
    I just found today that RURAL KING in my town got a large shipment of 22LR and I was able to buy my limit
    (300 rounds, 6 boxes EACH!) of 3 different ones.

    AGUILA Copper Plated HV
    AGUILA Lead Round Nose
    ARMSCOR HV (faster than CCI Mini-Mags!)

    900 round total, and I texted my friends. They are NOT “gougers” and will shoot the ammo they buy.
    Rural King has been getting 22LR on FRIDAYS, and putting it out with perfect timing! I get paid Thursday, and it comes in on a Friday morning truck, they had maybe 20 to 30,000 rounds or more when I showed up!

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #22136
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Wow that is good, I have not found any here in Miami for the last six months.

    #22144
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    SJ, again no offense meant, I dare say that we have been arguing the same information in different ways (different sides of the coin) and both missing each others points in many respects.

    This forum is one of the most civil (most of the time) that I’ve been on and would like to see it stay that way, so let’s not poke sharp sticks at Malgus (or each other).

    I kid about that for a number of reasons, one because Malgus and I have gone around once or twice but generally agree, much like you and I. Secondly, I think Malgus and I have run into each other before in real life and if we run into each other again, we’d likely exchange “Yup it’s you’s” between us.

    To continue this thread in a more productive fashion, here’s a couple links to some interesting methods and loads for the more unusual uses which many of us may find ourselves needing unusual ammo for. Deep in historical info, a lot can be gleaned from these pages. Read with an open mind, you’ll be surprised.

    HOW TO HANDLOAD SUBSONIC RIFLE CARTRIDGES
    (and survive)

    http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

    http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane2.html

    http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane3.html

    #22146
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    I LOVE the way that some of the old timers modify their loads to suit their specific needs. I actually just got hooked up with an 8 mm and am loving the way that I can make it mimic a 30-30 up to a 30-06. By mimic, I am referring to the fps versus energy statistics. Absolutely fascinating. I think there could be case studies done on the 45-70 and the variance of loads for that firearm. Another under rated and under documented round is the 6.5×55 Swedish. There have been some modified loads done for this cartridge that also allow for a huge variance in power.

    I could read reloading and firearm testing information for hours….. For the most part, I am too lazy to scientifically track the variances of loads to contribute much to reloading tables or too wimpy to put my firearms at risk. Either way I allow others to do most of my testing to give me what I call my “wiggle room parameters.”

    To give you a laugh…. I reload my .410 with a hand load set requiring the use of wooden mallet for the crimping….

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #22232
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Sneaking up on 10K in the 22lr category, but that would be the stash. I’m thinking ~2k for general use and practice… I need to figure out what is the oldest and rotate the stock! Shouldn’t be too hard, and the oldest is under 2 years since purchase.

    Looking at the subsonic rifle loadings now, thx WHIRLI !!!

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #22235
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    That is great undeRGRond, I have close to 9,000 rounds of 22lr. I want to get to 12,000 so that I and my son can use about 1,000 round to rotate. I have two SIG522 one is the SWAT, you can see it here http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig522-swat.aspx and the other one which is my son SIG522 is the Commando which comes with a suppressor look at it here http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sig522-commando.aspx

    So since we go to the range together we will go though 500 to 600 22lr, so that means if I go two times a month that is 1,000 to 1,200 a month.

    We have not gone to the range since we do not want to use the stock.

    #22236
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Exactly! I have a son that likes to shoot as well. e was “Top Shooter” in his platoon @Boot Camp, so he is my resident weapons guy :D

    We have a Marlin 795, a Henry Octagon Barrel, and my Dad has a bolt action single shot Savage (OLD!)
    and an old 22 revolver.

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #22242
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Hey undeRGRond how good is the Henry rifle? I have been in love with this one for a long time. http://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/45-70-lever-action/

    #22247
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    The Henry is great!
    I watched all the videos of cleaning and disassembly and it really looks like a well made gun.
    Feels really solid and shoots well. Lever is smooth and in the 22lr standard velocity it is very quiet!
    I’m sure the 45-70 is different LOL

    The Henry is made like a swiss watch!

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 58 total)

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