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  • #23438
    Profile photo of Iam4ever
    Iam4ever
    Survivalist
    member1

    is that every religion which talks about it, talks the truth. That there is only one “god”. They just use different name for “him”, and from that ppl in different religions argue against each others that “my god” is the right one and yours is the “fake” ´one´.

    Its the same one in my eyes, but ppl got it wrong.

    There can be so many opinions bout it in peoples mind.. For me, every opinion bout it/him is false. False idol of god, existing in persons mind.

    Its same with atheists, they are just other side of the coin kinda..
    They have this false idol picture of god in their mind, which they are unable to believe in, but also they are unable to let that false imagination or how you say it, idea, to go away from mind, letting it go. Understanding that what they cannot accept, cant then be the right idea bout it. Now, in their and in religious ppls minds, there is something in their minds, on which they cannot let go. Its their image of the world, reality, when, correctly speaking, its what they think is real and so on.. Its in their mind, not in the reality…

    I think it might be pretty hard to grasp.. and accept.

    And, when ppl will realise, that world is not what mind tells it is.. What mind tells it is, is learned from society around you, from media, from school, parents etc. You are filled with rules and all that right when you were born.
    You were never free in the first place, to see the world as it is, but how it is publicly observed. and values and morals are transferred in your mind. thats not freedom, thats something else.

    To be Free is to to give away all that, to see the truth was is behind all that what is though to be reality.

    it goes some like this in bible, dunno how it is in english, but i think you will regognize it..
    ” and the foundation of temple was big” Something like when it came crashing down, one was able to see, that it wasnt the thing, but just minds creation about it..

    Many will disagree with me on this. Lemme put it this way. Not a single man on earth, can know and understand everything humanity has learned on earth. Not a single person will live or have time to educate himself with all the knowledge what humanity has learned. We infact, know very little about everything, and what we know, forms our personal reality in which we believe to be as reality. We meet people who think differently about thing or two. Other knows some same facts about the issue, but something which other doesnt and visa versa. So, they dont or cant agree on that. There is much more than we ever can learn, and yet we, humanity are learning all the time more and more, and in same time, things get more and more complicated.

    We create laws, which majority of population dont know, we create new stuff, which many ppl dont know how to use, we produce many things, and dont know/care what it means to enviroment to make them and when it becomes rubbish after use.

    So, what comes, which is the truth, the way and all that

    imo, we are quite badly, messed up and live in illusion world which we take in real.

    #23445
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Iam4ever, Sorry about that for some reason it was not showing for me in the right category. It is OK now.

    #23446
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    Free it shows on my end that it is in religion and faith category. I have noticed this morning that when I click on a thread it takes me somewhere else. Is that happening to you?

    #23447
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Yes it is.

    #23448
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    But now it is showing up in the religion & faith category.

    #23465
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    There is much more than we ever can learn, and yet we, humanity are learning all the time more and more, and in same time, things get more and more complicated.

    There is an essay I think you will enjoy, written 60 years ago by a gentleman named Leonard Read by the name of “I, Pencil”. Goes directly to your comment above.

    In short, a pencil is something that is so humble and inconsequential in our lives that we think nothing of throwing them away at will. But, not one single person on this earth can make a pencil, start to finish.

    Certain people have discreet knowledge of how certain parts are made – the mining of the graphite or the mixing of the yellow paint, for instance. But not one person can build a pencil from scratch. Not. One.

    I think you will enjoy reading this…

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html

    By the way, I read about how a student of Mechanical Engineering decided, for his final project, to make a toaster from scratch. Mining and refining the various ores and materials involved, etc. Fabrication of all parts, by hand, including springs (anyone who knows anything about metallurgy knows what a pain in the ass making a spring by hand is…)

    It took him a couple years, but he did it. It looked like SteamPunk meets Mad Max… all thick steel and rivets…. but it worked…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #23476
    Profile photo of Iam4ever
    Iam4ever
    Survivalist
    member1

    thx Malgus. Going to check that link you posted.

    (edit. Readed already bit of it and yes, its totally familiar to my thoughts, ive thought that kind of things already with almost everything ive looked at.. its quite.. shockin to understand what all it takes.. and how much it affects and on what.. like everything around us)

    Things really will get wild If much of the knowhow of different things is lost. Even without that, it still gets wild :)

    Some time back in history, i though it perhaps is better to die in first wave, than survive it and next ones, as, it isnt too nice world there to be, when forests etc are cut down for energy. Imo going to be quite wasteland globally.

    #23481
    Profile photo of Iam4ever
    Iam4ever
    Survivalist
    member1

    gotta also add, that money is a devil kind of..

    Now we dont much buy things which we just need. It also lets us buy things we want. and if we got more of it than just needs and some wants, we can spent it on things we just want to entertain ourselfs a bit of time,..

    And, how does money go when you buy something with it? it isnt disappearing. Someone else has is, minus taxes. Then that someone else uses it to buy more supplies to replace spend ones, keep part to himself, and some goes to taxes.. He can spent it similarly.. And all those things its spent on, is like on that pencil story.

    Imo Money is like a drill, which goes deeper and deeper inside the core, like some downward spiral kind of.

    i think most of our nowaday problems are caused by it. It makes it possible to have corrution and many other problems. Most of the problems i think. It makes it possible that there is some “leeches” who only can be there because of it, and could not exist without it. If we would like to change how things are and go, should money go among the first things.

    Some might claim that developement isnt going forwards without it. i say, sure it can go forward. Many people invent many things without money being involved at all. Sure, money makes many things easier in bad and in good, but it seems that the bad things are weighting more in the scale.. and will be.

    without money, things would go much more real, and in need level.. as at least for me, there is huge difference between need and want. For many, its the same thing.

    #23483
    Profile photo of Iam4ever
    Iam4ever
    Survivalist
    member1

    oh, and doesnt that pencil book also tell us, how little do we know really, about anything.
    It really brings it up nicely :)

    #23488
    Profile photo of namelus
    namelus
    Survivalist
    member7

    um a world without a medium of exchange like money does not work well for instance you have corn but you want jeans no place will sell you cloth or finished products but a pig farmer will buy for pigs then you need to find a person who will trade pigs or corn for jeans.. time consuming ans wasteful.

    Money has to be around to lubricate trade, what is necessary is a way this can be done without debt nor the ability to dilute the currency.

    i am 4ever easy way to define what is good and vil along with what is god that everyone can agree one is simple, In the beginning there was light… big bang

    In regards to good and evil, the question needs to be framed in a religious and scientific method that co inside so that everyone can agree no matter what side they stand on. To this end we all can agree that the worlds started at a singularity and a big bang, in the bible this is god saying let there be light, in science the most readily accepted big bang theory. So we start from a point and expand outward we are all made of same things as we all come from one point. The question is what are we moving towards?
    In science we have a Idea called the tendency towards complexity it says all things evolve to more and more complex states over time, we see this in the world all around us. Ask yourself if we are getting more and more complex what is the ultimate form of complexity? would that not be god? So science and religion agree just have different way of saying it. Do you agree?

    So if we are evolving towards something then everything we do that helps us to get there is a good thing and everything that slows us or stops us is a bad thing? Do you agree? going towards god or away from god, scientist evolving or stagnating and regressing one is forward motion the other is backwards.

    So now we have what is premise of good and evil how do we judge how good or evil and act is? That is much easier to frame, ask yourself this if everyone would kill someone would this move us further or closer to the ultimate complexity? that tells you if it is good or evil, but it also tells you how bad it is enough killing and we would cease to exist and no longer be able to evolve which is extinction which is the ultimate bad. If you apply this to something at is lower on the scale say stealing or lying it shows you with the end result how severe the problem is. It also shows you what good is if everyone would love their neighbor as they love themselves would this help or hurt us?

    #23489
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Iam,

    Not to presume anything, but do you know the difference between “money” and “currency”?

    “Money” has intrinsic worth. Meaning, “money” is worth something just by existing. Gold. Silver. Copper. Platinum (also known as “Bastard silver”).

    “Currency” is what passes for “money”. It is paper, nothing more, backed by nothing.

    It is conjured out of thin air by our respective Central Banks, then loaned to our respective governments at interest. It is also known as “Fiat currency”. “Fiat” means “force”. It is literally our respective government forcing us to accept what they tell us as “currency”. If they wanted to, they could declare used snot rags to be “currency” tomorrow, and there is little we could do. To pay back this debt to the bankers, our respective governments tax you and me and take the fruit of our labor.

    An ounce of gold mined and refined 4,000 years ago in Egypt has the exact same worth – value – as an ounce of gold mined and refined yesterday. It is important to note that the VALUE of the gold does not change. It is only the worthlessness of our respective currencies that changes in relation to gold, not the value of gold itself. When the price of gold goes up, that means your currency is worth that much less.

    Used to be, all currencies were backed by gold and silver, if not made of the actual genuine article. Then came Bretton Woods. At this meeting, the movers and shakers decided that only the dollar would be backed by gold, and then all other currencies would be tied to the dollar. An idea which worked for about 15 seconds….

    In 1971, our President broke the Bretton Woods agreement and divorced the dollar from gold. This meant that currencies (now, no longer “money”) were only worth something when compared to other currencies. Which also opened the floodgates – with gold and silver backed money, you can only spend as much as you have and no more. Remove that, and now you can spend as much as you print.

    In 1971, our debt was 400 Billion dollars. Within 10 years, it had topped 1 Trillion. Within another 10 years, it was 5 Trillion… now, it stands at 18 Trillion. That’s just what they will admit to. If you count “Unfunded Liabilities” (which are things you promised to pay for in the future, but have not come due yet) the number is actually closer to 100 Trillion… to put this in perspective, one trillion seconds ago it was 30,000 BC…

    Sooner or later (probably sooner) this house of cards will fall. When it does fall, those who created the house of cards will know well in advance. By the time YOU find out, it will be too late. “Bank Holidays” don’t close the banks… they close the banks to YOU and other people, but not to the banksters or the government. By the time they open, you’ll find your little nest egg, your savings, is long gone… or greatly diminished….

    Buying “stuff” – literally trading worthless fiat currency for hard, 3 dimensional assets that will retain value – is always a good idea. Unless you have a giant pile of fiat currency, you’ll have to do like the rest of us and eat the elephant one bite at a time. One month, buy a good sheath knife or long term food or something similar. Next month, buy whatever precious metals you can – usually silver. Gold if you can afford it. Build your preps as best you can, while you still have time.

    One good investment that will be worth it’s weight in solid platinum will be a good MAP. Not just a road map. A topographical map that shows waterways, which are seasonal, which are permanent. Where major and minor cities are. Where farmland is located. You can use it to plan a route, and alternate routes, to wherever your hidey hole is located as well as find a good location for a hidey hole…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #23493
    elijah
    elijah
    Prepper
    member6

    Well said, Malgus; I think you outlined the matter pretty well.

    Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
    Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!

    #23520
    Profile photo of warpedrazorback
    warpedrazorback
    Survivalist
    member3

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>Malgus wrote:</div>Iam,
    <P></P>
    <P>“Money” has intrinsic worth. Meaning, “money” is worth something just by existing. Gold. Silver. Copper. Platinum (also known as “Bastard silver”).</P>

    …and money must also be fungible, meaning it must have a consistent value; an ounce of gold from India must have the same value as an ounce of gold from New Mexico (factoring in for purity, of course). This is why gems are not considered “money”; a 2 carat diamond from Arkansas can have a widely disparate value from the same weight diamond from the Ivory Coast.

    <P>“Currency” is what passes for “money”. It is paper, nothing more, backed by nothing. </P>
    <P>It is conjured out of thin air by our respective Central Banks, then loaned to our respective governments at interest. It is also known as “Fiat currency”. “Fiat” means “force”. It is literally our respective government forcing us to accept what they tell us as “currency”. If they wanted to, they could declare used snot rags to be “currency” tomorrow, and there is little we could do. To pay back this debt to the bankers, our respective governments tax you and me and take the fruit of our labor. </P>

    Banks loan money to each other at negotiated rates in order to maintain a legally required ratio of cash on reserve. The Federal Bank averages out these negotiated rates and comes up with the federal funds effective rate, from which they derive the national nominal rate, which is essentially the “cost of money”, or an index of how available the dollar is to be loaned out. If all the big banks are tapped out, or if a big bank needs cash quicker than it’s cohorts can lend it out, the Fed is a lender of last resort, and will loan that cash out at a rate higher (called the discount rate) than the nominal rate, which is one way the Fed recoups printed cash. However, the primary means the Fed has to remove excess cash out of circulation is by buying federal security bonds when cash (and thus security bonds) is cheap, then when they want to decrease the supply of cash and therefore raise interest rates, they sell the securities, thereby removing their proceeds from the cash supply, making cash more expensive and harder to procure.
    <P>An ounce of gold mined and refined 4,000 years ago in Egypt has the exact same worth – value – as an ounce of gold mined and refined yesterday. It is important to note that the VALUE of the gold does not change. It is only the worthlessness of our respective currencies that changes in relation to gold, not the value of gold itself. When the price of gold goes up, that means your currency is worth that much less. </P>
    Gold prices ebb and flow. The price of gold can be dependent on runs on gold due to fears of collapse, and marketing which targets those fears. In Greece during the fifth century BCE, 3g of gold was considered enough pay for a skilled worker to “live comfortably”. Three grams of gold today would be worth $93, which comes out to roughly $24000/year. That’s not comfortable living where I live, but I also recognize there are significant cultural differences. Does this prove your point or dispute it? I don’t have an opinion either way. The important thing is to compare the value of the dollar to goods and services, then compare the value of the dollar to gold. That will give you a good idea of the value of gold.

    <P>to put this in perspective, one trillion seconds ago it was 30,000 BC… </P>

    Lol awesome analogy!

    <P>Buying “stuff” – literally trading worthless fiat currency for hard, 3 dimensional assets that will retain value – is always a good idea. Unless you have a giant pile of fiat currency, you’ll have to do like the rest of us and eat the elephant one bite at a time. One month, buy a good sheath knife or long term food or something similar. Next month, buy whatever precious metals you can – usually silver. Gold if you can afford it. Build your preps as best you can, while you still have time. </P>

    Before long, people are going to realize silver is actually more valuable than gold. The crustal ratio (the amount of each present in the crust of the planet) of silver to gold is 17:1, but the amount of available silver is reducing because it’s used in manufacturing, but not in amounts than can be salvaged. For instance, every cruise missile we launch vaporizes (if I remember correctly) 10 oz of silver. Flat screen TVs use trace amounts of silver. Cell phones, computers…all use trace amounts, but the sheer volume of items eating up silver leads to a drastic consumption of it, and we’ll never be able to reclaim it. Gold, not so much. My point is, I’d buy silver over gold any day, at least until the cost ratio of gold to silver is 40:1, and that’s before people realize the actual value of silver. I think eventually the ratio will reverse, and silver to gold prices will be somewhere closer to 5:1, with silver being more valuable. Unless we find a suitable replacement for silver in our electronics. That would be a game-changer.

    My biggest point in this novella is that gold is not money. Money is something you can readily trade for goods and services. Try paying for your groceries with gold, or your utility bill. Unless you barter it, gold must go through an intermediary before you can convert it into money to pay for things. That by itself means it cannot be considered money. It is a commodity. Arguably the most useful commodity when valuating currency. There is an awesome article about the “gold standard” here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2013/04/18/gold-isnt-money-but-it-should-be-used-to-define-the-value-of-the-dollar/2/
    That being said, I agree with you completely that commodities will be far more valuable during a collapse than fiat money. I don’t think gold is the way to go due to the issue of trying to barter it for a can of soup, but yes, tangible commodities are the way to go.

    #23537
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Hate to disagree with someone, but gold is money.

    Gold was money for 6000 years before Forbes, the Fed and the US Government came along, and it will be money long after they are dust and forgotten… to me, Red Shield Ben calling it a barbaric relic or someone calling it a “commodity” is just a flim-flam. I do not believe that I “need” an intermediary to pay for goods or services – tell me one car dealer or home owner who would turn down a pile of gold Eagles.

    There is a concerted effort to keep the price of gold depressed. Countries like England – and others – for no discernible reason, have dumped tons of bullion on the market. Price of gold threatens to spike, and all of a sudden “someone” dumps bullion on the market… it’s happened too often to be coincidence…

    The Fed, aided and abetted by our government, hath decreed that toilet paper is currency, that gold isn’t money, and they have structured the system so that you will have a hard time using gold as it was intended – as money. That they have rigged the system against the use of gold does not negate the fact that gold is money. They’ve just made it really, really hard to use as money, and they force us to use their worthless script – “currency” – in its place… and they’ve flim-flammed generations of us into believing that nonsense…

    Once SHTF, we’ll see if gold stays a “commodity”… Gold is freedom. Gold is liberty. Which is why banks and governments hate it when you have it. They love it for themselves, but for you? No, none for you. You have to be beholden unto them, using their worthless paper…

    As far as unrecoverable? If they can recover platinum from cat converters, then a method can be devised to recover PM’s from things like television screens and cell phones… that they have not developed this methodology does not mean it cannot be done or is “impossible”…

    Sorry to disagree with you, Brother Warped. It don’t mean I don’t respect your knowledge. It just means I don’t buy off on the ‘commodities’ flim flam… just because some banksters say so, don’t make it so. Doesn’t pass the smell test…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #23565
    Profile photo of ronym
    ronym
    Survivalist
    member5

    for me there is only “Two”
    the True God… and the false
    .
    the false God can be Lucifer, Satan, Demon, Diety, Spirit in other world, Trees, etc
    that’s why in 10 commandement God speaking about “other God”
    “I am the LORD thy God… Thou shalt have no other gods”
    “No graven images or likenesses”
    “Not take the LORD’s name in vain”
    .
    and by the way humankind have hundred if not thousand of different languages
    ( in my country alone there are hundred local languages…
    that’s why we have “national languages”, to communicate with other people in other “race” or island )
    if i speak “chair” to my neighbor, it’s only few who understand it
    but if i speak “kursi”, many of them understand what i talking about
    .
    so does “God”…
    many people in my country will not understand what we are talking about
    but if said “God itu bahasa inggrisnya Tuhan” or “Allah”, many of them understand it
    .
    so it’s just about languages ?
    maybe… but still we have to describe it to understand what we talking about, such as :
    God who created earth and sky
    God who created Malaikat ( Angel ) Jibril ( Gabriel ) or “Ruhul Quddus” ( “Holy Spirit” ), human, syaitan ( satan, devil, lucifer ),etc
    God which send his messenger to send his message to people in the world
    like Nuh ( Noah ), Ibrahim ( Abraham), Musa ( Moses ), Yakub ( Jacob ), Ayyub ( Job ), Sulaiman ( Solomon ), Zakaria ( Zachary ), Daud ( David ), isa ( yesua / yehesua ) etc
    God who have Jannah / Surga ( Heaven ), Naar / Neraka ( Hell )
    .
    are we have similarities about which God we are talking about ?
    .
    okay next…
    who command to worship only one God
    ( “qul hu allahu ahad”, “Katakan, Tuhan itu satu = Ahad” )
    forbidden to worship other God besides him ( shirk, syirik )
    none in the creation is equal to Him
    (“Walam yakullahu kufuwan ahad”, “Tiada dari ciptaan-Nya yang serupa dengan Dia )
    who have special day to worship him, like Sabbath ( Saturday, in the day of isa or yesua or yehesua ) or Friday ( Jumat, in the day of prophet after isa )
    .
    but God i know are not command to worship him in Sunday ( the day of Sun ),
    if i am not mistaken, there are “Sun God” in Greek mythology
    or “Ra” in Egypy mythology
    .
    hmmm it seems like i have to describe it in at least three different languages

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