March 18, 2014 at 10:25 pm #1826
Before SHTF I was involved in situation where I came as medical professional to help man who get injury. As we understand he felt from balcony.
When we came there we saw that he have big wound on his neck, 5-6 guys were standing around him, some of them yelling other crying.
After few minutes when we clearly saw that he lost too much blood from his artery, guy came out from the house holding broken bottle in his hand and said to us “ I ll kill you booth if he dies”
Me and guy who was helping me looked each other, and he started “but he is already…”
I said “OK we ll do our best”
I saw that guy with the bottle is not in control of himself, so there was good chance that he could attack us if we say something that he do not like.
Guy with the wound was clearly dead, but we were trying to do something, and we were trying to look like we are doing something, while guy with the broken bottle was running around us, yelling and crying in the same time.
In few minutes police came, and we were saved.
Then we find out that those guys were drinking hard, and then arguing, and then guy smash bottle and hit the other man in the neck.
I was young and eager to help other man in trouble, and I simply failed to see obvious signs that there are troubles there, and dangers for me.
Few years later, when SHTF I find myself in similar situation when guy point rifle in me asking me to help guy who is already dead, but then I was armed too, so it was different.
I watched how people getting shot, because they were trying to help man who was shot by sniper in legs or stomach and left there to bleed, crying and screaming for help.
Then man who was trying to help him gets shot, then man after him.
It is hard to look at the other human being how he look at you and cry and scream for help and stay put.
I learned my lesson on hard way, and whenever I see other man in big trouble I see myself in potential trouble.
Do not let adrenaline to get you killed, your first mission is to stay alive.March 24, 2014 at 12:00 am #2221
Would you recommend shooting the man in the street out of mercy, if you could do it unseen, or would that put you in more danger? That would be hard (to shoot him), but hard also to hear him suffer. What a terrible situation to be in!March 24, 2014 at 9:08 am #2278
It is hard thing, i witnessed couple of times similar situation, I had luck not to be directly confronted with that choice.
If there is no other help for him, I say yes.March 25, 2014 at 12:35 pm #2522
We all believe that we will act in a given situation. The WWYD(what would you do) game. In reality, when it is real, your actions and inactions change. If you want to stay alive you must slow down and observe. Yes, some situations require an immediate response in order to live, but many more situations require observation in order to live. You have to see the unseen. We like to believe that we would do a certain thing or act/react in a certain way. In reality, we don’t know what we will truly do until in the situation. Think about the paper warriors for an example. This is the guy who is excellent on the range and goes to **** in combat. Think about changing a magazine in a gun. A simple task that is easily mastered until everything around you starts going to ****. That rock between your ears is your single most important piece of gear, nothing can replace it, and when you lose it, your screwed.March 25, 2014 at 3:57 pm #2759
When things break down thoroughly, as described by Selco, decency becomes something that can only be applied when you know it’s safe to do so. As we read, attempts to do the ‘right thing’ according to how we may have been raised can possibly be the last thing we try to do.
Even without a collapse it can be too dangerous to do what we want to do to help another; it all depends on what is going on. It’s not incidental that every day paramedics wait until being given the All Clear by police before going in to save a life, and some people have died waiting for the police to secure the area. But paramedics want to go home at the end of the shift as much as anyone and must wait until it’s safe to approach.
The world doesn’t play fair, it plays dirty. It’s good to train one’s mind to be as aware of the environment you are in as possible; it could save your life.
Bugs Bunny: "I speak softly, but I carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Oh yeah? Well I speak LOUD! and I carry a BIGGER stick! and I use it, too!" BAM!March 25, 2014 at 4:19 pm #2765
Gypsy Wanderer HuskySurvivalist
As a family on foot or traveling, we have decided in a case like above. At least two adults stay with the children and stay moving in the direction we are going. Then one or two may look into what is going on. But if its a harry situtaion, sorry all bets are off we keep moving.
Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable.
George S. PattonMarch 25, 2014 at 7:09 pm #2951
All due respect to the previous replies and the sage advice given, and in all honesty, I would have to say I wouldn’t.
I have no medical background other than some basic first aid and trauma treatment training, but I’ve never had to use them. I do know, though, that you can lose a lot of blood and still stay alive.
If I was forced to choose to kill out of mercy, I don’t think I could simply because I would always wonder if that person otherwise could have made it. Even in a situation where it is obviously hopeless, there is always hope until there isn’t.
I do know that the screams stay with you. You don’t forget them. Unprovoked, and without a desperate need for my immediate survival, personally, I don’t know if I could do that. Just being real with y’all about it.March 25, 2014 at 7:13 pm #2955
MR Ts HaircutSurvivalist
It’s a hard thing. Ask yourself, what you would wish for yourself or loved ones and use that as a guide… of course no one knows except Selco, what that choice would be like.March 25, 2014 at 9:03 pm #3073
Perhaps it is naivety on my part, but I don’t think it would have occurred as an option. Further, I wouldn’t want any of my loved ones to come get me and put their lives in danger if I was in a situation like that. Of course, that’s my opinion right now, but that very well may change in five minutes.
That said, I hope I never have to find out how I’d react in that situation.March 25, 2014 at 9:10 pm #3082
About ten years ago, while stopped at a stop-light, a car behind mine literally exploded in flames… it was about 11:00 on a Sunday night, relatively empty streets… the passengers inside (a Mexican family with four little ones in the back) were trapped… I put my car in park, jumped out and ran back to their car. The fire had engulfed the front of the car, and the entire family were just staring at the flames, in shock. They couldn’t move. I grabbed the passenger side door, yanked it open… got the parents in the front seat out, then the kids in the back… everyone was ok, though the car burned to the ground.
Nobody stopped to help; they just drove by, like it was nothing. A few weeks later, a client of mine (executive from an IT company) mentioned something in front of my wife, “wasn’t that you with the burning car, last month?” I said yeah, and there was no more mention of it… I’d thought he was a good guy… very “Christian,” very religious. Yet he- like everyone else that night- did nothing. The point is that decency is already a rare thing, and we haven’t even gotten to SHTF!
After SHTF, decency will be
and this is where Selco’s advice comes into play: In SHTF situation, it’s quite simple: Your family relies on YOU for survival, and there is nobody else to support them if you’re dead…. so while it would feel terrible to walk away from someone who is fatally injured, you MUST if it means the safety of your family…March 25, 2014 at 9:17 pm #3095
Shooters set up a Honey Pot. Deck one guy but leave him alive so that he draws in others who would “help” him, which only creates more targets…
What would I do? Dunno. Wasn’t there. But what I would at least try is attempt to obscure the original wounded guy, the Honey Pot. Smoke, a vehicle, anything… then toss him a weighted line and pull him to cover. Of course, the shooter might just bump him off if he sees that happening…
As far as helping others outside our group? Again, I dunno… but in all honesty, I don’t see it happening very often. If medical supplies are short and you help THOSE guys, what will you have left to help your own?
Sucky position to be in…
The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1March 25, 2014 at 9:52 pm #3141
You’re a braver man than I am, Breathial.
You bring up the exact point I was trying to make, only more clear: if it endangers me or my loved ones (LOs), it would depend. If it was a stranger, I don’t know what I would do, but honestly, I think I would have been among those driving by…
Not because I wouldn’t want to, or out of a sense of malice, but because I don’t know if my gamble would even pay off, and then my LOs would be without me if it didn’t. If it paid off, I’d feel good and get gratitude, but gratitude doesn’t feed or protect my LOs.March 25, 2014 at 10:02 pm #3145
In a world of the nature that we all prepare for, sometimes we may be put into a position in which we must not look at our moral compass. There is a fine line between helping someone and putting yourself at risk, and that risk many times will not be worth the reward (or lack there of).
So, say you do manage to grab someone who has been shot by a sniper in the street. What next? It obviously depends on the wound, but also if you are willing to give up what may be a dwindling supply of medical supplies to aid in helping of someone you may not even know, not to mention the fact that the wound may be of such that you nor anyone in your family/group are able to aid this person.
Basically, in my opinion, it comes down to “is it worth risking not only my life, but as well as my family/people, to save this person. Would it be worth attempting to stop the blood loss and patch this person up, using the only what we have on hand, doing only what we can do”.
As much as it sucks, and as hard as it would be, for someone that isn’t of my group, or someone who doesn’t possess skills or knowledge that we could use, the answer would be no. And that is a very hard choice to make. It’s different if someone is shooting at you, and you’re shooting back. But knowing that you COULD save a life, but watching that life slowly drain away is much like playing god. And we’re no god.
Canadian Patriot. Becoming self-sufficient.March 26, 2014 at 9:23 pm #3716
My medical training is just standard first aid and infant, child and adult CPR, had to keep the training current for a side job I used to have for many years.
My most recent (of the very few I have) emergency experience was when I had my 2 oldest kids at a playground. Another kid, a complete stranger, fell and gashed his forehead pretty good, as soon as I saw that I ran to my car for the fist aid kit. When I got back his parents had him and were trying to figure out what they could do. I got gauze pads on the wound and wrapped to hold it in place. The parents were then discussing if they needed to take him into the doctor, and were still more than a bit confused and panicked, so they asked me. Since I did not know if this needed stitches or not I told them if it were me I would take him to an urgent care or the ER right away and told them where the nearest hospital was ( it was only 2 miles away, up a major road, so they could drive him there much faster than an ambulance or paramedics could get there), the bleeding was controlled so I was able to calm down from urgent mode, and as I calmed down the parents were able to calm down and they carried him to their car, I presume they were taking him to get medical care, but I will never know.
Since then one of the major medical transport offices has set up a small office right across the street from that park, and there are usually 2-3 ambulances waiting for calls, so I probably would call 911 as I went for the first aid kit if it happened again.
My earliest experience was when I was about 14 and heading to school, a car lost control at an intersection while I was waiting on my bike for the light to change. All I remember is one moment I was beside a pole, the next I was off my bike and a few feet back from the pole, I don’t even recall seeing the car as I crossed the street afterwards, even though it had been stopped by a block fence and was only 20 feet or so from me. Completely in shock I guess, I did not even recall seeing another kid about to cross the crosswalk until later when they announced that there had been a fatal accident. To this day, almost 30 years later it is still a blank, all I can remember is seeing a bloody tennis shoe on the ground as I got ready to cross, but it did not register, I know that both he and the car went right in front of me, within 3-4 feet, and I still can’t remember that 2 minutes or so. We later even noticed some blood on the frame of my bicycle, that’s how close everything happened.
RobMarch 27, 2014 at 2:25 pm #4026
I don’t know if i could help someone in this situation I would like to think if i was able i would do so as long as there was no threat to my family or myself. This being said, my son was recently born, and now he depends on me so my life has more value, making me more cautious already in life.
To me this illustrates that taking tactical first aid is essential. If something happens and you are able to stop your own bleeding it can mean life and death.
I need to work on this one!
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