Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #28262
    Profile photo of Inshala
    Inshala
    Veteran
    member4

    Disclaimer: This is solely my opinion based on my life’s experiences (for what it’s worth). Ladies: I apologize for the sexist metaphors.

    Passion:

    A man and his weapon are nothing to take lightly; however, when it comes to a real world SHTF scenario, preference is irrelevant. I say again, PREFERENCE IS IRRELEVANT!! I mean, I get it…I really do. Most of us survivalist, military, and LE-types have a passionate attraction to our favorite firearms. In reality it’s comparable to what our preferences are in a mate. An AK platform could be nothing more than that long-haired Mediterranean brunette with the red lipstick and the foreign accent. Some might consider that sexy. An AR platform could be that blonde-haired, blue-eyed corn fed Midwestern girl. Some of us will stick to one type while others take what they can get. There’s no rhyme nor reason to why we choose what type we do, it might simply be a familiarity/comfort factor. I’ve seen guys go to blows over a Glock vs. Colt 1911 the same way they would over defending their wife. Sometimes it’s just illogical, but it involves much passion. It’s a luxury we can afford in peacetime only.

    Pragmatism:

    If you decide to marry yourself to one weapon system only, YOU WILL DIE. Are you really going to say, “Oh, that AR I just discovered might jam; therefore, I will pass it by”? HELL NO! If you do, you are stubborn and not in a survivalist mind set. You take what you can get.

    Personal experience:

    During March of 2003, I was deployed during the invasion phase of Operation Iraqi Freedom. My unit was still structured after the post Cold War peacetime Clinton Era “right-sized” military. Our MTOE (Modified Table of Organization and Equipment) specified that officers were authorized Beretta M9’s only and enlisted M16A2’s. We were not authorized any crew served weapons. That’s how we went to war. About a month into the fight we came across many abandoned/captured enemy weaponry. The more savvy officers picked up AK’s as their primary weapon. I, myself, traded a Marine a deck of the “Most Wanted” playing cards for a Communist Hungarian manufactured Tokarev TT pistol. It was in rough condition and it didn’t appear to be the same quality of an M9, but I wanted it because I felt the need for a close range sidearm. It served a purpose. Our sister unit went so far as to mount DShK’s, PKM’s, and PKC’s to their Humvees in lieu of M2’s, M240B’s, or M249’s since they were unavailable in our own organic logistical structure. There were plenty of magazines, belts, and ammunition available just lying about. At the time it was even more available than our own hardware. Yes, it was sexy carrying around the “bad guy’s” weapons, but most importantly, it was pragmatic. Later on, the MTOE would change and we would get the correct hardware for the mission. The practice of taking enemy equipment would be made unauthorized and enforced. That was a luxury that would come as the logistical chain caught up with us. Eventually, at the end of my first deployment, I dropped my Tokarev into an amnesty box never to be seen again. It was a sad day.

    Practical application:

    Put your preferences aside, take a step back, and consider the scenario. As I mentioned in Selco’s post, situation dictates.
    When the SHTF you will have your favorite that you purchased way before anything happened. You coddled her, took her out, practiced, and became comfortable with her. You stockpiled enough ammunition…or did you? As the SHTF enters an extended duration, you might find yourself running critically low on 30-06. Gander Mountain, Cabella’s, Dick’s, and your local Ma and Pa gun shop have long been looted. Not to mention, your grandfather’s M-1 Garand might be showing signs of metal fatigue. What to do…what to do? Well, as Chris Rock once said, “A man is only as faithful as his options.”
    THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO:
    1) Learn to let go. There’s nothing wrong with having your preference. You had a good run and she served you to the end. Know when it’s time to move on.
    2) (For the young preppers) Put away the Xbox and Playstation. Call of Duty is B.S.! It’s fantasy and not a means of familiarization or training no matter how bad ass a player you are.
    3) Familiarize yourself with your local law enforcement agencies BEFORE SHTF. Assess which agency is the weakest and most likely to abandon their post. Chances are they have an armory full of weapons and ammunition.
    4) Research what weapons that agency uses primarily. This gives you time to purchase an identical weapon to familiarize and become proficient. You can also stockpile the compatible ammunition. This may not always be the best option as some agencies allow their officers to choose their sidearms. Again, research your local agencies to determine the most feasible option.
    5) Research secondary and tertiary sources. You have no local LE? Okay, what about Sheriff or State Police? What do they have in their arsenals? They might have a limited budget; therefore, they might have civilian rather than military grade weapons in their arsenal. For example, I know the Mini-14 is still used by a lot of agencies as well as the Remington Mod 700.
    6) Purchase an M16/M4 clone. Yes, I said it. It’s not because I think your weapon is no good, it’s because eventually the military will assume control and eventually lose it. There will be plenty of weapons, magazines, parts, and ammunition available. You’ve all heard the rumors about the Federal Government stockpiling copious amounts of 5.56. I don’t know if that is true or just urban legend, but you cannot deny the fact that “Uncle Sugar” has deep pockets. Chances are there will be plenty.
    7) Know your limits. Take into consideration your finances when deciding on a course of action. There’s no reason to get divorced or have the kids go hungry while you beef up your arsenal. Also, remember what has been stated time and time, again: Your weapon is simply a tool and only as good as the hand that implements it. Research, train, practice, practice, practice.
    8) Be resourceful. If you live in an “Occupied” state like I do in NY, then acquiring AR’s similar to what the military and police have is illegal. Know how far you can push the envelope or research “loop holes” to get as close to what you need as possible. Also, I believe that purchasing crew served weapons like an M240B or M249 are simply improbable in many states. If so, buddy up with a soldier, marine, or combat veteran that most likely has a working knowledge of these weapons systems. You can read about it until your blue in the face, but once you actually have your hands on something like it, you may need a professional to assist.
    9) Remember: It’s all about sustainability. Take a picture of yourself and your sexy weapon of preference for posterity. You guys looked good together at one time and maybe you will again. In the meantime…survive and protect your loved ones.

    Conclusion:

    I, by no means, advocate violence against the military or any law enforcement agency. If a SHTF scenario looks similar to what I remember when we steam rolled across Iraq, there will be equipment simply abandoned or secret caches that went unclaimed or forgotten. In the case of something happening in the U.S., I imagine abandoned/overrun police stations, National Guard Armories, Reserve Stations, and Federal installations would be a wealthy source of weaponry. In any case, I emphasize that this is my humble opinion and in no way a statement that I know more or am better than anybody here. I enjoy reading all of your input, but must admit that I get frustrated over the petty “gun porn” arguments over who has the better firearm. In the end the person that has any firearm is better than the person who doesn’t.

    Cheers!
    -Inshala

    "If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die historic on the Fury Road."

    #28266
    Profile photo of molonlabe23
    molonlabe23
    Survivalist
    member1

    Well said, I agree wholly and subscribe to your philosophy of use.

    #28267
    Profile photo of undeRGRönd
    undeRGRönd
    Survivalist
    member8

    Excellent Post!

    I had a plan… and it went the way of most plans of Mice and Men, and did not materialize.
    At least not like I had planned in the beginning!

    It went like this:

    1. AR15, maybe 5K ammo
    2. Ruger 10-22, 10K+ ammo
    3. 9mm w/15-17 rounds capacity, 2K ammo
    4. 12 gauge, 1k asstd. ammo
    5. more ammo for Dad’s 357 mag revolvers, 30-30 etc…

    That was it! Then the post-Sandy Hook realities set in, and ALL Ammo was becoming scarce. (except shotgun) I did, however, note that 40 S&W was quite common, and I decided to purchase a Hi Point JCP in 40. I felt better prepared after doing this. The JCP 40 has none of the problems the C9 has, (which are not that common anyway)

    Lather, Rinse, Repeat, same story in 45 ACP :D

    Never got a Ruger 10-22, but I got a Henry Octagon Barrel (20″) and a Marlin 795, which is marginally more accurate than the 10-22 anyway!

    So I have basically all the common handgun calibers, and the 22lr “shortage” got me into 22WMR and 17 HMR, which are plentiful (17) and WERE Plentiful in 22WMR. That is now more scarce than 22lr around here.

    No 380 for me, it will be hard to find in SHTF and worthless, IMO, as it is less power, more expense, and harder to find. Need to conceal is different in SHTF, and a 9mm or bigger makes more sense to me.

    "ROGUE ELECTRICIAN" Hoping to be around to re-energize the New World.....

    Cogito, ergo armatus sum

    #28268
    Profile photo of recon
    recon
    Survivalist
    member1

    <div class=”d4p-bbp-quote-title”>molonlabe23 wrote:</div>Well said, I agree wholly and subscribe to your philosophy of use.

    Being ex Military I totally agree with that statement!

    #28272
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Inshala,
    I agree with you conceptually, however I can’t envision stores of ammo & weapons being left behind by police, perhaps the military. It seems to me that those individuals aware of the stocks will help themselves as they leave their respective organizations. Where as in Iraq bugging out and joining the ranks of unarmed civilians might save your life or simply knowing that there was more to be had down the road, why waste time and energy to carry supplies. I don’t think our local armories even have much live ammo anymore. You would need go to a base. Personally I’ll be staying far away from military bases, (fema camps).
    Just a thought.

    #28276
    Profile photo of Inshala
    Inshala
    Veteran
    member4

    74,

    As I mentioned earlier, situation dictates. You might have a well funded, high morale, ferociously loyal law enforcement agency that would defend their own until the end, or you might have the Katrina New Orleans PD that evaporated when SHTF. That’s why you need to assess your local LE sources. Yes, a smart officer should know when it is time to cut his or her losses, grab, and go. Not all LE are in a prepper mind set or might simply be overwhelmed and unable to secure their own weapons and ammo. We could run hypotheticals all day, but in the end your local LE is more of a potential weapon/ammo cache as opposed to your local bank or hospital…at least, in the initial phases.

    In regards to the military…yes, as we sit and breathe, you are 100% correct in regards to military ammo storage. An ASP (ammunition supply point) is sealed up tighter than a duck’s posterior. They are literally subterranean concrete bunkers with high fences and cameras monitoring. When a unit has to go to the range, there is an abundance of bureaucratic red tape that needs to be completed before you can sign for and transport ammunition. Even AFTER the ammo has been shot, the unit has to recover the bandoleers, stripper clips, clip feeders, ammo cans, crates, and (most of all) BRASS! As a matter of fact, the government is so anally retentive about brass recovery that range control will not authorize a unit to clear a range if a certain percentage of brass is not recovered. That is the way it is now….in “peacetime”.

    When SHTF, the government will have no option but to open up their stores and release ammo to the service members in the field. They will convoy supplies to wherever units are headquartered. My best prediction would be to National Guard and Reserve Stations where they could still maintain a higher degree of security and positive control. From there, they would have to convoy the supplies combat outposts, patrol bases, and checkpoints.

    "If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die historic on the Fury Road."

    #28277
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Inshala,
    Thank you for your comments.

    #28278
    Profile photo of Inshala
    Inshala
    Veteran
    member4

    74,
    Thank you for inspiring me to think!

    "If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die historic on the Fury Road."

    #28281
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Inshala, I don’t disagree with most of your post.

    We do get too wrapped up in our favorites and personal choices.
    Sometimes there’s reasons for the choices though.

    Me, I can’t shoot Sig handguns for beans. The grip while it feels great in the hand and the guns are wonders of mechanical engineering, there is an issue. There is a projection on the left side of the grip frame that strikes the joint of my thumb in firing, my thumb goes numb within a couple of rounds.
    Does this mean I can’t use a Sig, nope.
    Does this mean I wouldn’t pick one up in an emergency? Nope.
    But it does mean that I’d trade it for something else. And quickly.

    As to LE agency armories, I can provide a little insight on this, it starts getting bad, the armories will be emptied by the Officers themselves.

    This won’t be like “The Walking Dead” where they go in after some calamity and find dozens of guns just hanging in the racks and hundreds of rounds of ammo. There may be a few initially, but honestly, most of the spare guns will be issued to Officers/staff during the beginning. It depends on the crisis of course.

    My first department, on 9/11.
    The “armory” consisted of 7 shotguns and one 9mm carbine.
    They normally stayed at the station. That day, each car got one long-gun and there they stayed for the next two weeks.
    There were several cars that the Sgt’s brought their own carbines in, knowing that we didn’t have enough.
    There was a single spare handgun in the ‘vault’. It was given to our dispatchers, just in case.

    As to ammo, most ‘armories’ are sadly lacking in ammo these days. Our local PD/SO have to scrounge ammo to qualify generally, budgets being what they are. My last two departments were the same. Again, any spare ammo will be issued/handed out in-house.

    I have long said, “Is gun, Is shoot”. I can use almost anything and have.
    Thankfully we are at a point where we can make the choices for ourselves to arm prior to having to scrounge firearms or ammo for real.

    And as the owner of a gunsmithing business, I realize that my place is a first line target for the bad guys.
    It starts to get weird, I’ll do like I’ve done in the past, and remove the important items for safekeeping.

    #28286
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Inshala, Thank you for your long post. I found many facts that I really hadn’t though about and opened my mind to these facts in a SHFT times. I agree with you that every city, town and state will be different.

    #28287
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7

    Inshala, your words are born out of experience. Refreshing. I had experiences in the military that certainly made me very pragmatic. I look for tools to get the job done and not get my ego bound up and blindly wedded to any particular platform. I train across platforms any chance I get and master the ones that I own.

    #28296
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Kind of interesting mentioning police stations being overrun , I would bet money that if it were bad enough , a lot of them would simply not show up for work , but rather stay home attending to the protection of their own families ………..some will weigh the odds , and come to the conclusion that going to work and attempting to do anything will most likely get them killed , at a time when their own family will need them the most . The military is not immune to this either , its a different ball game when the Sh*t is going down on your own soil , in your neighborhood , instead of some other country , doing Darth Vaders bidding . I can see some desertion . In the last civil war , desertion was an every common on both sides , but more with the North , as the soldier in the field , at times didnt really see the point of why they were fighting . I also liked your analogy of the Ford vs. Chevy argument , they both beat the hell out of walking . Same with guns , they beat the hell out of a fist , knife or club . In my mind , the fact that a person has chosen to buy a firearm , and has ammunition for it ………………gives that person an advantage over those that do not have . The willingness to use it is a different matter , and this is where I see many armed people are going to fail .

    #28310
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    It gets bad enough, the cops will be told to go/stay home.
    No point getting people killed unnecessarily.

    #28314
    Profile photo of Roadracer
    Roadracer
    Survivalist
    member7

    As well as getting to know your PD, it would be a good idea to learn your National Guard armory. I live in a college town where I have joked that the NG would be driving camo Prius’s. However, the armory 30 miles away has some pretty heavy transport and equipment parked there.

    #28315
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Tolik, you are right on that the police will be going to there families and even military solders will do the same. On the armed people going down I have said this before, 100 million are armed and only 10 million will fight the war. SHTF and the bullets are being shot many will run.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.