Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
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  • #38170
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I have been thinking about buying the Glock 19 Gen 4 but when I went to my gun store that I buy my guns at the guy there was carrying a Glock 23. I asked him if he likes the .40 more. He said that he does but that he also likes the 9mm and that is why he owns the Glock 23 because for $80 more you buy the 9mm barrel.

    What do you guys think?

    http://glockyourself.com/reviews/glock-23-review/

    #38177
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7

    Model 23 three guns in one with barrel swap 357SIG, 9mm, and 40. Versatile. I’m Gen 3 fan myself and the 9mm (Glock 17/19, S&W Shield 9mm) and .45 (1911, Glock 21). How much Gen 4 23 cost?

    Glock is proven platform but other striker fired pistols are good choices too. Pick platform that suits you and train. My .02. Good gun the 23 FBI has used them for awhile but they may be switching to 9mm.

    http://us.glock.com/products/model/g23

    #38179
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Short version:

    With modern ammo, the 9mm gives nothing up to the .40 or .45.
    And extra bbs.

    Secondly, the .40s don’t hold up as well as ths 9’s, the increased battering wears the gun out quicker. Its why the gen4 changes were made.
    That’s also why so many PDs are replacing guns quicker.

    There’s a couple of reasons the FBI and others have gone back to or never left the 9mm, its easier to shoot and shoot well.

    And by getting a spare slide assembly, you can have your .40 later if you so desire.

    I am considering getting a different teaching gun, my G30 is a little pricey to just blast ammo off with. I have owned countless 19s and 23s but able to fire all three side by side again at my last class. Bluntly, the 23 was the least fun to fire. I then remembered why I never kept them. Just enough harder to shoot that its work.

    At this point, a 19 or grip shortened 17 are the front runners.
    That’s if I stay with the platform, whichni probably will, if just for teaching.

    And a decent barrel runs @$120.

    #38190
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    So Whirlibird you would purchase the 19 gen 4? It cost here $535. The 23 gen 4 has the same price. They have the barrel for $80 and the 9mm mags for $30 ea.

    I was thinking of purchasing the 23 gen 4 and the spare 9mm barrel and 9mm mags and use them for the range and for carry defense have it a the 23. But you think I should just stay with the 19 gen 4 and just buy better ammo?

    You know your opinion is very important to me. I will be doing this purchase in the next 30 days.

    #38191
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    I have been thinking about buying the Glock 19 Gen 4 but when I went to my gun store that I buy my guns at the guy there was carrying a Glock 23. I asked him if he likes the .40 more. He said that he does but that he also likes the 9mm and that is why he owns the Glock 23 because for $80 more you buy the 9mm barrel.

    What do you guys think?

    http://glockyourself.com/reviews/glock-23-review/

    What do I think lol. Buy the 9mm Mini Uzi and get all the high capacity mags you can pocket. You’re in Florida not Farmville. Glocks are nice, civilized, innocuous. Uzis are feared and dangerous.

    #38194
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Freedom,
    The recoil difference is significant. The 40 has a sharp snap, where the 9 is just not. In a heavier pistol 40’s would not be a big factor but in a light plastic gun you can really feel the difference. Go to a range and rent all the guns you are considering. It will help a lot.

    #38195
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    Okay, condensed version.

    Many moons ago, someone got the bright idea to retrofit 9mm handguns to the newfangled .40 cartridge.

    There were a number of problems, the Browning Hi Power conversion was delayed because it didn’t feed one particular load and lost out on a number of sales.

    The Smith autos were the first to make big sales but they also showed increased wear from the 9mm guns that spawned them, shades of things to come.

    Then the Glock pistols were converted.
    The problems started from day one, the previously excellent 9mm Glock pistols started cracking at the trigger pin from the added stresses. A second locking block pin was added which cured the cracking but if one looks at higher round count , 40s you can see where the locking block is torqued up and slaps the inside of the slide.
    At the same time, the slide rail tabs have had no less than 4 versions because of torque and wear issues, and mostly with the high pressure, high velocity small frame guns that use heavy bullets. (.40)

    Glocks can take an amazing amount of abuse and high round counts, the 9mm model 17 has a number of examples out there with over 100, 000 rounds through them. RWS turned an earlier G17 back in for a replacement with over 300, 000 documented rounds through it. Ir was the gun they tested their ammo with, each batch, each change, it all went through that gun.

    What you don’t see is high round counts in the .40s, they losen up too quickly and are worn out long before they get anywhere near the 9mm round count.

    Next best are the .45 and 10mm guns, the .357 and .40s follow behind.

    When people like Larry Vickers and other instructors/operators choose the 9mm over the .40 there’s a reason, much comes to handling ability. The .40 Glocks are the hardest to handle reasonably, ignoring the full power 10mm G29. Its harder to shoot the .40s as well or as easily.

    Conversion barrels.
    Some advocate conversion barrels, I do also, however keeping within the parent head size.
    For example a 10mm G20 can have a .40 and .357 Sig barrel installed as well as the 9×25 Dillon without stressing the gun. If one wants to go bigger, the G21 slide can be installed with the standard barrel, a .45GAP barrel, a .400 Cor Bon barrel, and others. With another conversion unit one can shoot .22lr and another unit allows the use of .50GI.
    One thing to remember is that when converting, the ejector housing block really should be changed to match the case head size, this is part of the issues that people who use drop in 9mm barrels have, the ejector hits wrong and the cases sometimes don’t eject correctly. Same for the extractor, sometimes the .40 extractor works and frabs the 9mm rim, sometimes it doesn’t.
    This is why the replacement slide (and ejector) because the parts match the cartridge used.

    Gen3 vs Gen4.
    One has to remember that the Gen4 upgrades weren’t needed until the , 40 guns started having issues.
    They went with the dual spring system ala the compacts to help control the battering and wear. Unfortunately they helped create another issue, certain tac lights and lasers will compress the dust cover enough to bind and slop or stop the slide. Part two of this problem, the added weight of some tac lights on the , 40 is too much for the weak dust cover to handle and the gun malfunctions or actually breaks.

    In guns designed for or more appropriately as a .40 to begin, the cartridge can be a good one, but the Glocks are just too lightly built in all reality.

    A 1911 or H&K USP for example are built to last in comparison, using the .40.

    One of my local officers was at the range last week, working with his G22 with attached light. Bluntly it was too much for him, the snappy recoil. I pulled my G30 out, and using Federal HST he chewed the bull out when he previously was lucky to keep it on a paper plate at 10y.

    Again, with good ammo there’s little reason to choose the .40 over the 9mm, generally it falls to what is provided duty wise.

    I had one of the first G23s to hit CO. And after some rather extensive testing, it got traded for a 9mm, even back then. And this from a big bore person. Within a thousand rounds, it was showing measured wear.

    The next Glock 40 I get will be the G40, a 10mm.
    But the next .40 S&W Glock I have will likely be a G20 with a conversion barrel, here it makes a manageable and servicable package,

    Good luck.
    Go rent and shoot both the 19 and 23, it will help you decide.
    The other option?
    Have the grip of a G17 shortened to G19 size and get the best of both worlds.

    #38196
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Whirlibird, Thank you for answering my question. Looks like the Glock 19 gen 4 will be the one to purchase.

    #38201
    Whirlibird
    Whirlibird
    Survivalist
    member10

    What some of the experts are saying.

    #38211
    Profile photo of Brulen
    Brulen
    Survivalist
    member9

    Freedom,
    The recoil difference is significant. The 40 has a sharp snap, where the 9 is just not. In a heavier pistol 40’s would not be a big factor but in a light plastic gun you can really feel the difference. Go to a range and rent all the guns you are considering. It will help a lot.

    In a light gun I find it hard to even practice with the sig 357. 9mm subsonic is great. I have a glock 20 in 10mm and now all I ever shoot in it is .40. with a 6 inch barrel. You can’t rent that. lol

    #38298
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Very good video Whirlibird

    #38337
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    Not a Glock guy, free.. sorry.

    It’s a good gun, I just don’t happen to like them.

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #38429
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    You already have a lot of information, but to chime in here a bit…..

    Glock are fine pistols, but .40 (like Whirli said) is not as fun to shoot as 9 mm. It is like taking out a .357 and shooting .38 spl in it. You can plink all day long with the 9, get good with it, use less money in ammo expense, and they just seem to keep going. They remind me of the 10/22 to some degree.

    I also am not a Glock guy. They are made for people with hands and not paws. Instead, I like my Beretta 92a1 for my combat pistol or my Para 1911. My wife has a G30 that she loves and can hit things with. It has been tossed around our family since 1998, so it can take a beating. I have no idea how many rounds have been put through it either, but it just won’t break or quit functioning.

    $540-ish is a good price for a solid pistol platform, but I long ago “poo-poo’ed” the .40 for my own use and thus recommend 9 mm.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

    #38431
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    sledjockey, I own a Beretta 92a1 just want a smaller 9mm to carry everyday. Yes you are right the Beretta 92a1 when the SHTF is what I will have and the Glock 19 would go to my son at that time. Also to go to the range I want my son to be able to handle it better then the big Beretta 92a1 which weights a lot for a 15 year old. He is strong but like this gun for carry and for the range for the son.

    The Beretta 92a1 I have owned for over 15 years with zero problems.

    #38433
    Profile photo of sledjockey
    sledjockey
    Bushcrafter
    member8

    Freedom:

    I get it…. Been working on getting my son set up with some sort of a load out for the last couple years. Luckily, he has 3 jobs and is working on building his own gear now. FINALLY…….. He will probably get a 1911 and good revolver. That is just what he likes. Personally, I think it is because he is left handed and both seem to keep brass from slapping him in the face. At least the Para I have doesn’t hit him with empties.

    To each their own on this stuff. Because of the price/durability/accuracy/etc, I have been telling him to get a Glock 19 when he turns 21 so I understand.

    http://ageofdecadence.com

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