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  • #11970
    Profile photo of Tsar Alexander
    Tsar Alexander
    Survivalist
    member4

    I pretty much accept it as a given that within the next decade and a half the United States will collapse like the USSR did. I think a lot of us on this forum share a similar way of thinking, and even if you don’t, you still likely realize that this nation is in deep trouble.

    One question has intrigued me for a long time, mainly, on what lines would America break apart?

    In the Soviet Union, this was relatively easy, Russia was the foundational nation, and took over a lot of the nukes, as well as the foreign embassies and most of the military. The other republics went their own ways.

    The problem in America, is there is no “foundational state.” No single state is really powerful or large enough to be a “superpower” all on it’s own. The question of passing down nuclear weapons, and legal continuity becomes a lot more complex then.

    You see–for all my trash talking of modern America, I still like this nation a lot, and would like to see it retain some sort of status on the world state (albeit not the global hegemony that it was between 1991 and a few years ago). But if every state became it’s own nation–we would just be a collection of weak, small, and easily exploitable nations.

    I suppose the question I want to ask is, how do you think America will break up? Northern states vs Southern ones? Total free for all of states? Regions becoming nations like Cascadia or New England? Or something else?

    As another question, do any of you living in the “northern” half of the US (meaning north of California in the west, and north of Virginia in the east) feel any cultural ties to people on the other side? Do any of you still think that a union of the “northern” (meaning not “Confederate” and “Mexamerica”) states is possible?

    Just some thoughts through my mind. I figure we could still be a big power nation if we kept the Northern half, with its 100+ million people.

    I mean are English speaking people in Washington state and Oregon, really that different from people in, New York (state) and Ohio?

     

     

     

     

    #11974
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    http://www.quora.com/Hypothetical-Battles/If-every-state-of-the-USA-declared-war-against-each-other-which-would-win

    You might find this interesting. I found it last night while searching for something else.

    #11977
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    I took this comment from a post on another site because I believe it represents what is going to happen.

    “They are so foreign to us the things we embrace as virtue they despise as vice. Conversely, their virtues are poison. They are a parasitic drag on this country that we can no longer endure”

    The country is not divided philosophically or culturally by geographic state boundaries.  Therefore the split will not occur along existing known lines of demarcation.  The biggest differences culturally in the US are created between urban and rural populations and this is where the break will occur.  When rural states states break away from states controled by urban centers the rural portion of adjoining states will want to join with the productive rural states. This will leave NYC, PHIL, BALT, CHICAGO,  DETRIOT and other similar cities on their own. The urban areas will be the focal point of the collapse due to uncontained civil unrest.

    #11997
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    1974, I believe like you that there will be civil unrest because of a collapse.

    #12010
    Tolik
    Tolik
    Survivalist
    member10

    Thats how it will start , but the thing is , we are already are different people with the ununifying illusion of a common flag , and as” Americans “. Deep down inside we all know this is a lie , we are already separate people , each region of the country could be a different nation right now , Stinking northeastern yankees dont think the same way as a Westerner does , they dont have the same values or priorities , this is true of the other regions as well , the demographic make up is different as well . I do indeed think the nation will break up , the sooner , the better in my book . The US will still exist , but my guess is it will be primarily the North east , only because the preservation of the union is of overwhelming importance to those people , While other parts of the nation will form their own nation because personal freedom and liberty are more important than preservation of the union  ( again the differences that already exist in thinking ) .

    One thing that you cant ignore is human nature , Humans will ban together in the same tribe when hard times hit , this is normal and natural , the tribe can be anything from like thinking people , religious beliefs , racial lines , etc . …Countries do the same thing .

    The results of the Soviet Union breaking up ended up to be a very positive thing for the Russian people , they are better off today than they have ever been . The United States in its present condition serves no one , its like the slop paint bucket  that you dump all your left over paint , all mixed together , into a political , ideological , demographic pile of sludge nobody wants . A break up here will also do the people a world of good in the long run as well .

    #12015
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Tolik,
    The people living in the Northeast are not a unified group. Every possible cultural variation is represented. Most of the Northeast is rural forest or farmland. The people that live in these areas are not going to allow themselves to be lumped in with the urban populations.

    #12016
    Malgus
    Malgus
    Survivalist
    member8

    I suppose the question I want to ask is, how do you think America will break up? Northern states vs Southern ones? Total free for all of states? Regions becoming nations like Cascadia or New England? Or something else?

    The Northern States can do whatever they want, as far as I’m concerned. Yes, there are patriots, true “Americans” amongst their ranks, but I’ve pretty much written off everything from the Ohio River on up… I’ve lived up there before for a blessedly short time. But long enough to realize I was right all along.

    Those of us in the South are better off going it alone. We will be diminished economically and not without problems, but then, we’re used to it.

    As another question, do any of you living in the “northern” half of the US (meaning north of California in the west, and north of Virginia in the east) feel any cultural ties to people on the other side? Do any of you still think that a union of the “northern” (meaning not “Confederate” and “Mexamerica”) states is possible?

    I know you posed this question to the Yankees, but permit me the leeway of an answer. The answer is “no”. Those in the North have nothing in common with us and I feel no allegiance to them whatsoever. Totally different cultures, and those up North usually look down their noses at us, sneering at us and thinking we’re all ignorant, toothless, shoeless hayseeds skunked on our own liquor and guilty of having relations with the female members of our family.

    They have thought this way for a very, very long time and I don’t see it changing anytime soon. The only Yankees I know are those who come down here to exploit our cheap land prices to build their shitty stripmalls and become slumlords… Where we used to live was surrounded by horse farms and green rolling fields. Within 5 years, it became urban blight for miles… strip malls, check cashing places, hair and nail salons, Walmarts, fast food joints, Section 8 housing… it just became a really trashy, dangerous place to live. All due to carpetbagger land developers. Land too expensive to exploit where you live? Head south and exploit those rubes… thanks, Yankees.

    So we left all that mess behind and moved to the middle of nowhere an hour away… If it were up to me and I were Governor, I would assemble teams of workers, give them all bulldozers and shovels and raze that crap to the ground, turn it back into horse farms, cattle farms, grow tobacco, corn, etc. And make those damn Yankees pay for every bit of it.

    Just some thoughts through my mind. I figure we could still be a big power nation if we kept the Northern half, with its 100+ million people.

    You’re welcome to it. I shook the dust from my feet a long time ago. I will never go back up there.

    I mean are English speaking people in Washington state and Oregon, really that different from people in, New York (state) and Ohio?

    Yes. Folks tend to congregate near others like them. They self-segregate. It’s human nature. Over time, folks gravitate to those most like themselves, so now you’ve got not only separate regions of the country, but each region has developed it’s own distinct culture. That the New England states have thrown away their birthright as the “cradle and birthplace of liberty” is their business. They want to be socialist lickspittles? That’s on them. I’d rather be poor and ragged, but free, than live like that.

    As far as the western states? Can’t speak for them. The only two places out west I got experience with are Seattle and Denver. Both of which used to be pretty cool places until some halfwit wrote in some magazine that Seattle was “the best place to live and work in the US!”… Overnight, about a million douchebags from Southern California moved to Seattle. Now it’s just as screwed up as Southern California. They just swamped and overwhelmed the locals, completely changing the political landscape for the worse. Same thing happened to Denver. Denver used to be a fairly small cow-town state capitol. It rocked. Now? Now it’s called “The Moscow of the West”. Same reason. About a million douchebags from SoCal showed up, followed by another million or so illegals…

    The wicked flee when none pursueth..." - Proverbs 28:1

    #12028
    Selco
    Selco
    Survivalist
    member6

    I pretty much accept it as a given that within the next decade and a half the United States will collapse like the USSR did. I think a lot of us on this forum share a similar way of thinking, and even if you don’t, you still likely realize that this nation is in deep trouble.

    Nobody knows what exactly gonna happen, and is it something like that going to happen at all, but it is about people who “run the things” and who have power to know that I think.

    I know from experience that it is very easy to pull all differences, and problems between regions and people (of one country) if that is in interest of the people on power. So when (if) that time comes that is gonna be sign, differences between folks pulled up, everywhere, cultural, religious, regional, economic…
    It is the “best” recipe for starting those “fracture lines” in once perfect country.

    #12033
    Profile photo of 74
    74
    Survivalist
    rnews

    Melgus, Really?  You are stereotyping beyond belief.

    #12036
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    So may things can happen, no body really knows. All I wish is that I will live though it because it will not be pretty!

    #12038
    chester
    chester
    Survivalist
    member7

    This thread reminded me of James Wesley Rawles (bestselling novel “Survivors: A Novel of the Coming Collapse”) ‘American Redoubt.’ http://survivalblog.com/redoubt/ Updated: April 18, 2014 Mr. Rawles, a former Army intelligence officer, has well articulated views on collapse & where to be SHTF. I don’t share all his views but certainly food for thought. I’d imagine there are ‘redoubts’ for other regions in the world/US. Certainly something to consider in our preparations — ‘plan for the worst, hope for the best.’ It was a consideration relocating to Pacific Northwest years ago. Also have a cabin in Alaska which we use as a get-away for hunting and fishing etc. We hop on plane in the morning at our home here and quick flight…have lunch in Alaska. Kudos to everyone for making this forum interesting and helpful. Thanks!

    #12039
    wildartist
    wildartist
    Survivalist
    member7

    Hey, Malgus, I was born in NJ, grew up on a farm where we could see the lights of NYC to the north if I climbed the hill.  Then the exodus started from the city, and things changed forever.

    Please don’t lump me in with the left-wingers.  I have nothing in common with them.  That is probably why I don’t live there any more…it was sad to see the subdivisions pollute and ruin our ice-cold spring-fed trout stream.  And then they put up houses on the farmlands, so closely you could barely get your lawnmower between them.  What people joke about as the “Joisey” accent is NOT original to the state.  And neither is liberalism.

    They pushed us out with taxes and my Dad had to sell.  The PTB did that so they could ‘develop’ all that prime empty land.  Now where are people going to grow crops when things go down???  The Garden State farmlands are covered in concrete, asphalt, shopping malls, and subdivisions.  Sorry for the rambling…

    #12040
    Profile photo of freedom
    freedom
    Survivalist
    rnews

    wildartist I think that they are trying to do the same to Nevada.

    #12061
    Profile photo of matt76
    matt76
    Survivalist
    member8

    I believe the fracturing started a long time ago. It is the old divide and conquer trick. First it was the civil rights movement(not that that one was bad). Then came dems and repubs. Now we are seeing a ramp up of seperations on multiple fronts, Immigration, elite and poor, as well as Christian and non. The views that don’t line up with the PTB are vilified and demonized.

    A house divided cannot stand. They keep splitting smaller and smaller and pretty soon no one group is strong enough to resist by themselves. It will take a proverbial slap in the face to jolt people awake and make them take a hard look at what differences really matter. Unfortunately I believe that slap will be a collapse and it will take a lot of bloodshed before people wake up. It will be one hell of a battle to regain freedom. If there is a collapse I believe the states with mild climates will fare the best.

    Crops will be easier to grow during the winter and it won’t take as many resources to heat homes. Getting in the shade when its 100 degrees outside makes more difference than sitting in the sun at 20 below.

    #12063
    wildartist
    wildartist
    Survivalist
    member7

    True, the PTB have fractured us along so many lines.  Instead of “E pluribus Unum” we are divided into little self-interest groups with our (their) hands out for special benefits.  My husband looked for scholarships a few years ago…what he found available was disgusting. Those who would “qualify” are far, far from the mindset that built the foundations of this country.

    In the Bible, King Nebuchadnezzar had a vision, which Daniel interpreted.  The head of gold was the King’s kingdom, then successive eras on down to the feet of crumbling iron/clay mix.  I think 1776 was the time of gold, and now we are in the iron-lumped-with-clay era.  Fractured.  It can’t hold together, so it will fall…

    I am grieved to see this day.  God help us.

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